food-safety roasting onions and garlic without oil

[AzJon]

Searched the forum and didn't find any specific answer to this multi-part question.

1. Do any of you add roasted onions/garlic to your sauces?

2. If yes, do you use oil?

3. If you do, but do not use oil, what technique do you use?

4. Does a little oil really matter in a hotsauce that is meant for commercial production? Canola is shelf-stable at room temperature and takes absolute ages to go rancid after opening. Is the only barrier to using oil really whether or not a sauce is shelf-stable un-refrigerated?

I'd really like to get that deep, rich flavor of caramelized and/or on-the-edge-of-burning flavor that you can get from onions (and other possible additions), but I've only ever done that with a coating of oil before cooking.

 

[dragonsfire]

yes, usually coconut oil, or olive.

 

[AzJon]

yes, usually coconut oil, or olive.

Is this for home or commercial use?

 

[dragonsfire]

Home, have done that for commercial use. Very little oil required so its not flooded.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

Some hot sauces have oil, some wing sauces have oil or dairy, some pasta sauces have olive oil, if you are going commercial you just need to do it the right way, so yes, it is possible.

 

[AzJon]

Some hot sauces have oil, some wing sauces have oil or dairy, some pasta sauces have olive oil, if you are going commercial you just need to do it the right way, so yes, it is possible.

Are you familiar with what that right way would be?

Also, do let me know if this is perhaps a question/discussion better suited for an Extreme Biz membership topic. I understand this is getting into specialized knowledge and manufacturing vs. general hot sauce enthusiasm.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

You have to talk to your local authorities:

DSLO Results – Association of Food and Drug Officials

Directory of State and Local Officials

www.afdo.org

And shelf stability has nothing to do with a product after opening. It means it is stable unopened on the shelf. Any sauce with oil is going to have the refrigerate after opening blurb on it, almost most hot sauces do anyway but that is one you would want to follow.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

@salsalady

 

[AzJon]

You have to talk to your local authorities:

DSLO Results – Association of Food and Drug Officials

Directory of State and Local Officials

www.afdo.org

And shelf stability has nothing to do with a product after opening. It means it is stable unopened on the shelf. Any sauce with oil is going to have the refrigerate after opening blurb on it, almost most hot sauces do anyway but that is one you would want to follow.

Thank you, sir!

 

[AzJon]

Alright, so did some poking around and settled on a wee bit of oil being ok.

The problem I'm running into now is how to get that beautiful roasted garlic aroma into my sauce! I added two entire heads of garlic to a batch and got...nothing.

Is there a trick to this that I'm missing? Use black garlic? Just bite the bullet and use garlic powder?

 

[dragonsfire]

Use good garlic, dont over cook it, light fast fry. Add some raw ones.

 

[AzJon]

Use good garlic, dont over cook it, light fast fry. Add some raw ones.

by light and fast fry, do you mean in a pan with oil or the traditional way, but in a very hot oven?

 

[salsalady]

For a roasted Garlic Salad Dressing (refrigerated) I take a 5 pound jar of peeled garlic (available thru your local produce section, or in 1# jars at Costco) put it in a roasting pan with some olive oil and roast it in the oven (325F-ish) until nice and nutty brown. Stir every so often to keep the cloves coated in oil and so the ones on the edges don't get burned.

When sufficiently roasted, drain the olive oil, to be used in the salad dressing, and blitz the cloves in the food processor until a thick smooth-ish paste. This paste can be frozen in smaller containers (or do the ice cube tray trick) for later use.

It can also be frozen in flat ziplock freezer bags which is convenient for home use. Just break off a chunk and return it to the freezer. I do the same thing with fresh garlic. FP a large quantity and freezer bag it. Break off pieces as needed.

I think you may need to just add more garlic/onion if the flavor isn't coming thru. obviously, garlic powder aint the same at all to roasted garlic.

When making sauces that contain oil, use a lot of caution. Pasta sauces are processed in jars with metal lids using pressure canning. Hummus is refrigerated. Other salad dressings are refrigerated, or they are mfg in facilities with way better equipment than a home kitchen.

I have not experimented with dry roasting onions or garlic. Don't know how that would work, I'm thinking it wouldn't get that deep rich flavor. Maybe at this point, play around with the sauce and ingredients using oil and keep it refrigerated, or pressure can in small jars. 8z jam jars are readily available. If you want to go fancier, There are lots of different options that use metal lids that can be pressure canned. Contact the seller directly to make sure the caps on the woozy bottles are appropriate for pressure canning.

Glass Sauce Bottles | Black Metal Caps | Specialty Bottle

Specialty Bottle clear glass sauce bottles with black metal caps are perfect for ketchup, dressings, BBQ sauce and more. Buy them in bulk to save!

www.specialtybottle.com

Clear Tall Straight Sided Jars with Gold Lids | Specialty Bottle

Shop Tall Straight Sided Glass Jars with Gold Lids perfect for pickles, olives, sauces, dressing, and more—available for wholesale and bulk purchases.

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EDIT- I have not tried it, but there is roasted garlic powder...

Garlic Powder, Roasted

Garlic is technically a lily and a member of the onion family, and though its white flowers are lovely the tasty bulb is what we care about. Its sweet, savory, sulfur-y flavor is intoxicating. To make this roasted garlic powder spice we take bulbs of garlic and slowly roast them until deeply...

www.spicejungle.com

Reading their description, they do not mention using oil, which, if they did, it would have to be listed in the product description. I'd get a couple pounds of fresh peeled garlic and just try it!. SS or glass/Corning roasting pan, no aluminum or cast iron. When blitzing, use one of the liquids of your hot sauce. It will need some kind of liquid to move around in the food processor.

Also, If you get the 5# jar from your local grocer or food service Cash-n-Carry type store, you can also freeze extra cloves as is. Roast some, grind some, freeze some....

Hope this helps, keep us posted and Have Fun!
SL

 

[AzJon]

Thanks, @salsalady! You are a gem!

 

[The Hot Pepper]

She's the best!

 

[AzJon]

This is the ingredient list from Da Bomb Evolution. So they are definitely using olive oil as an ingredient surprisingly high up the list and in a woozy. I'm still not sure the danger of using oil.

Oil, if it separates and gets to the surface could interfere with the seal, but I actually reckon you would need a lot of oil, relative to the recipe, for that to happen. Or use an emulsifier, but I can't find hot sauces that list oil as an ingredient and are using an emulsifier.

You reckon an operation like Da Bomb is pressure canning their bottles?

 

[salsalady]

Thanks, guys.... just trying to help...



It comes down to ratios and how they are listed. Here is a couple hypothetical sauces with the same ingerdients.

A-
Chile peppers 48%
Vinegar 19%
Water 10%
Onion 8%
Sugar 7%
Garlic 5%
Spices-3%

Option B-
Chile peppers 33%
Vinegar 25%
Water 10%
Sugar 10%
Onion 10%
Garlic 7%
Spices 5%


Same ingredients, same list on the label....totally different sauces.

 

[salsalady]

This is the ingredient list from Da Bomb Evolution. So they are definitely using olive oil as an ingredient surprisingly high up the list and in a woozy. I'm still not sure the danger of using oil.

Oil, if it separates and gets to the surface could interfere with the seal, but I actually reckon you would need a lot of oil, relative to the recipe, for that to happen. Or use an emulsifier, but I can't find hot sauces that list oil as an ingredient and are using an emulsifier.

You reckon an operation like Da Bomb is pressure canning their bottles?

Look at the cap of the bottle. If it is plastic, it is not pressure canned.
Things with oil can be HotFillHold processed. But it is not that simple. Packers must be certified for the process.

I make a certified bbq sauce made with butter that is HFH. The recipe has to be reviewed and approved by a Process Authority for commercial processing.

Without a process review, take the safe route.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

I'm still not sure the danger of using oil.

It's not rancidness it's BOTULISM!

 

[AzJon]

It's not rancidness it's BOTULISM!

In a low pH, cooked, sterilized environment?

Like, sure, putting raw garlic cloves straight into oil risks (high risk) botulism, but in a cooked, acidic environment?

The presence of oil on its own does not increase the risk of botulism.