labels Sam & Oliver's Molten Gold BBQ sauce - new label critique

Sam & Oliver

Sam & Oliver

Bavarian Gold prototype 5-5.PNG

 
Here's some quick breakdown on how this label is similar but differs from the previous 2 product labels I have:
 
All labels will be on white rounded corner rectangles with glossy overlaminate and waterproof.
 
The label will be 3.25" tall by 9" wide.  Bavarian Gold will be printed with a 2rd color plate, unlike Cinder and Stoke, which used a single color and black.  This raises the cost of the label production slightly, since a 3rd plate must be created before the run is made.
 
The bottle chosen is a stout bottle that's 7" tall just like the 5oz Woozy bottle, but fatter, with a short neck by comparison.  I chose this, rather than the standard decanter style because it was unique, and on the shelf, the products are the same height, which helps in storage and creating a standardized height and look to the products if they are displayed in proximity, or on my booth display.
 
Bavarian Gold will feature the same heat index, at the same height and location as Cinder and Stoke, because it contains a re-formulated Cinder as an actual ingredient. (vinegar type was changed from distilled to match the recipe's predominant Cinder Vinegar base).
 
The challenge for this label is the inclusion of a 4th panel due to the width of the label.  Because the 5oz woozy labels are 5.5", this leaves an additional 3.5".  The 'front' was widened to 4" to not create such a large white 'frame' when viewed on a shelf from the front.  This leads to significantly more black on the front panel, which was adjusted to keep the same 'stripe logo' design for a consistent brand.
 
This product includes Coconut oil and Tamari sauce, which contains soybeans.  Both have to (by law) be printed below the ingredients list, which chews up an entire 2 line feeds of real estate.  The ingredient list, while relatively basic, have lots of sub-components, which prevented me from using the same Nutrition Panel as previous labels.
 
Left panel = Romance Panel
Center Panel = Brand/Logo/Graphics
Right Panel = Nutrition Panel/Ingredients/Allergens
Back Panel = Recipe
 
Things I'm still on the fence about:
Recipe suggesting pairing product with an alcoholic beverage (IPA) - this could potentially be on a shelf at a public grocery store.
Trying to find out if it's legal to declare the allergens as "Contains Coconut and Soybeans" rather than simply "Nuts, Soy"
 
/falls off soapbox
 
Thoughts?
 
Edit: stout bottle picture
5ef32c31c19372d4735d5a77f81bdbdd.jpg
 
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Lucky Dog Hot Sauce said:
If you wanna name it Bavarian Gold, name it Bavarian Gold. Who am I to say what's best? Hell, I still get asked if my product is for hot dogs, or dog food.

Good luck with this product.
:cheers:
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Hehe.
 
Honestly though Bavarian Gold sounds like a pretzel mustard.
 
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Lucky Dog Hot Sauce said:
S&O's - remember that these are all just opinions.

Reading throught this I see that we're all guilty of being a little intense here. Sorry - I get excited about stuff & when my brain starts braining I just let the fingers go on the keyboard. All of those responding are passionate about sauces and labels more than most.

I didn't mean to sound harsh and if I did allow me to release a preemptive apologization. That's a word, right? :D

If you wanna name it Bavarian Gold, name it Bavarian Gold. Who am I to say what's best? Hell, I still get asked if my product is for hot dogs, or dog food.

Good luck with this product.
:cheers:
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thats why i posted this thread. id rather hear that aomethimg sucks than candy coated
 
Bavarian gold was chosen due to the snappy name, its homage to the german influence im the charlotte and charleston area cooking styles of the Bavarian immigrants there and that I didnt want to convey a hot sauce. yes there is Cinder in it. but its not a hot bbq saue specifically. 
 
the viscosity is that of a mop sauce. its not thick. primary design uses were for pulled pork, marinade and mop sauce
or samdwich dressing. it was accidentally used as a salad dressing and that works too.
 
i want to avoid germs like 'magma' or molten because the product has a touch of heat but the focus is the mustardy, vinegary sweet smoky bbq. 
 
the 'asian stuff in there' is a gluten free alternative to soy or worchesrershire sauce. i want it gluten free. soy and worch. has gluten
 
i had considered terms like Smelt, or amber. but its not really amber color. 
 
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Molten does not have to mean spicy hot if you don't want it to... it just works with gold because when gold is liquid it is molten. And molten gold ain't spicy lol. But this does have peppers... so don't overthink stuff. You are thinking too literally. It just works, imo. It works 3 ways which is pretty awesome.

But I get it. You are sold on your name.

As far as the German correlation, wow, that is pretty specific. I mean I have heard of Carolina Gold sauce, but I did not know of the German influence in the area and I am someone that knows a decent amount about BBQ and BBQ sauce. I'm not sure how many are going to pick up on this homage. Maybe a handful from SC? Are you from there? What is the tie-in and the reason for an homage?
 
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molten is growing on me. i'll tinker
 
my grandparents moved there when i was younger. my ex had parents down there and when inwas a child inwas at a picknic that had someone from charleston who was basically off the boat. he had made his own bbq sauce and to this day Oncan still taste that in my mind.
 
im not sold on the Bavarian name. more so since finding out someone else is claiming it all rights reserved. 
 
just not sure how to shuffle the graphics correctly. i'll tinker and repost
 
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I see.

That's cool you still remember the sauce. So are you saying Carolina Gold sauce has German influence? Because of the mustard base? Or are you saying this guy happened to be from Germany, liked the style (because of mustard), and decided to make his own?

I ask because you may want to be sure of a strong and well-known German influence before you name your sauce after it. ;)

And what if it has nothing to do with the Bavaria region? Just throwing stuff out there. Someone may try to correct you later, when it's too late.

I know Bavarian mustard is a style... so it sounds good for a mustard. Just not sold on the BBQ sauce yet... but good luck and go with it if you like it.






PS.

Are you using Bavarian mustard? Because CG sauce is yellow mustard which is an American mustard. So if using a German mustard, I can see the name starting to work.

But tinker with Molten Gold too... ;)
 
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I love your attention to detail and you really seem to think intently about every aspect of the sauce and the label portions, but I kind of also agree that you may be over-thinking at points, and giving the customer a little too much credit, and in my head, I mean that in a good way.
 
I have been asked many times about the origins of the company name or sauce name, and at most, the customers interest is moreso just being polite as to really caring. I have quick little anecdote responses for almost everything; some I change up my responses, but at the end of the day, it's the sauce thats going to sell itself, and not the story behind it or it's name. I'd focus on just getting the delicious sample in their mouth and them reaching for their wallet/purse. Everything else is just taking away from the bottom line.....moving bottles....
 
again, that's me......as serious as i take the business aspect of the whole process including the sauces, marketing, and presentation, i think you need to have fun with it as well...We're not brain surgeons here. The hot sauce/spicy condiment industry should be fun....It's a fun product with endless possibilities. 
 
have fun. sell bottles....thats my slogan! lol
 
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OK so the term "Molten Gold" is kind of growing on me.
 
Off the top of my head, a similar *sounding* product that pops up is "Molson Golden" - a Canadian beer, eh.
 
I'll tinker with this, and SL, thank you for your inputs and suggestions from the previous page, as always!
 
It truly amazes me how not only do I over-think everything, but how much value a honest, community input is worth.
 
molten gold
bbq sauce
 
or
 
molten gold
mustard bbq sauce
 

or
 
molten gold
mustard & vinegar dressing

 

or
 
molten gold
mustard & vinegar bbq

 
 
It's a bbq sauce, sandwich dressing, marinade and salad dressing.  Maybe the last example?

salsalady said:
It bears checking but I'm pretty sure coconut is not a normal allergen and a coconut is not a Nut (legume).  My bbq contains butter which I call out as "butter (cream, salt)" and I still have to have "Contains Milk".  Also, why would you want to write out "contains coconut and soybeans" which takes up a lot of real estate when it can be shortened to "Contains soy, nuts" 
Click to expand...
 
Coconut is a 'drupe'.  I guess it's technically a fruit, seed and nut all in one.  Per google:
 
Coconut is not a botanical nut; it is classified as a fruit, even though the Food and Drug Administration recognizes coconut as a tree nut. While allergic reactions to coconut have been documented, most people who are allergic to tree nuts can safely eat coconut
 
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The FDA requires Coconuts be listed as Nuts as in 'tree nut', however.  This is the one that counts.
 
Source: http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/Allergens/ucm059116.htm
 
4.  What is a "major food allergen?"
Under FALCPA, a "major food allergen" is an ingredient that is one of the following five foods or from one of the following three food groups or is an ingredient that contains protein derived from one of the following:
  • milk
  • egg
  • fish
  • Crustacean shellfish
  • tree nuts
  • wheat
  • peanuts
  • soybeans
25. [Added October, 2006] Section 201(qq) of the Act defines the term "major food allergen" to include "tree nuts." In addition to the three examples provided in section 201(qq) (almonds, pecans, and walnuts), what nuts are considered "tree nuts?"
The following are considered "tree nuts" for purposes of section 201(qq). The name listed as "common or usual name" should be used to declare the specific type of nut as required by section 403(w)(2).

Common or usual name Scientific name Coconut Cocos nucifera L. (Arecaceae (alt. Palmae))
 
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I like 'mustard bbq' personally.
 
I also like the idea of keeping it 'somewhat' vague. let the flavor tell it all.
 
my daughter loves 'ranch salad dressing' on her chicken nuggets.... virtually all the bottles i have paid attention to in the salad dressing aisle refer to them as salad dressings or the such....  by being a little vague, you're telling the customer that this 'mustard bbq flavored' sauce is good on whatever you want it to be good on, and not limited or geared strictly towards particular dishes.
 
obviously, people will pick up on that and use it how they want to use it, but i find that it's the subtle things like that when people pick up on when they read a label for the first time....  kind of like when you sell a home....i like the idea of showing an empty home as opposed to a home full of furniture...let the potential buyer come in an envision how they see the home with their furniture and pictures, rather than the image that you have laid out for them...
 
/end stream of random thoughts...
 
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What is the primary use and where you see it in the supermarket? Next to BBQ sauces?

A lot of mustard BBQ sauces are super strong (purposely) and to me do not work as after-cooking condiments, but as BBQ sauces you cook with only, or marinades. Which one is this? The super strong kind (very vinegary and mustardy with a high level of spice) or more like a mustard condiment you could put on after or dip in?

Let me give you an example. You'd never dip chicken nuggets in straight yellow mustard. That would taste awful!!! But a lot of CG sauces are strong like that, and used for cooking (BBQ) meaning, basting the chicken with it and then grilling, etc. But it would not be too good as a condiment after (imo).

There are condiments made with mustard that can be used as dipping sauces etc. Like a honey mustard sauce. Is this more like that? Or the former?

So just wondering what you see this as... primarily!
 
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OK as far as application and description, I'll try to do a quick review on my own sauce, without ratings of course:
 
Appearance: This sauce has the consistency of a thicker salad dressing, slightly looser than honey mustard.  Unopened, it has a goldenrod color with gourmet grind black pepper throughout.  As you rotate the bottle, small ribbons of red can be seen from the inclusion of Cinder as an ingredient.
 
Nose: After opening, you are greeted with the pleasant aroma of mustard and cider vinegar, and the sweet tickle of brown sugar and hickory smoke.  This doesn't smell like a whiff of cheap yellow mustard, nor does it have a pungent cider vinegar either.  The smoke is subtle enough to be present without overwhelming.
 
Palette: Initial taste brings a sweet combination of the mustard and vinegar but no harsh or bitter bite.  The black pepper can be picked up slightly if you have a good tongue for it, while the tingly heat from the Cinder smolders in on the back end.
 
Body: The mouthfeel is silky smooth, not gritty from the sugar or black pepper, and not too lose as to feel watery and thin.  The sauce does not stick to your tongue like a tomato and sugar based sauce.
 
End note: The heat rolls in at the end, while labeled as mild, this does have a tingle.  Not the "OMG my mouth is on fire" kind of heat that a hab can bring, nor the prickly back of the throat feeling, but a nice mouth warming sensation.  Mostly in part due to the mitigation the sugar has on the capsaicin.  The mustard, smoke and sugar have a nice tapering without leaving an aftertaste or lingering too long.
 
What went into my design:
A Mustard, sugar and vinegar based sauce that would work perfectly with meat such as pork, brisket, chicken, chops, turkey or venison.  The vinegar pairs well with meat.  There should be a pleasant aroma without smelling like ballpark mustard or cider vinegar exclusively.  The mustard used is a yellow mustard and the vinegar used is a filtered cider vinegar (didn't use Bragg's due to the unique taste it had, didn't work well in the sauce).  I have tasted many "South Carolina" / southern gold BBQ sauces, and wanted to put my own spin on this one so I included Cinder as an ingredient to bring just enough heat.  Some *real* hickory smoke to ratchet up the smokey taste and a touch of (at the time) soy sauce for a tang.  (this was later changed due to not being gluten-free).
 
How I use it?
I put it in a food saver bag with boneless chicken breast overnight, or pour it over a nice pork shoulder (bone in), cover it and put it in the fridge overnight.  I'll smoke the pork or grill the chicken the next evening.  Sometimes I throw some nice pork chops onto a hot grill and wield my basting brush with a bowl of this bbq sauce and paint them continuously while they cook.
 
marinade.jpg

 
I've used it to dip soft pretzels in, or the hard pretzel sticks (although they tend to make a mess because it drips off).  I've put a pint into a small saucepan and reduced the sauce to make it thicker, and dipped chicken fingers in it.
 
If I make pulled pork, I'll shred the pork, put it in a bowl and add about a cup of sauce back into approximately 4-5 pounds of pork and stir it around.  As this sits, it almost absorbs into the pork.  I'll take a nice Portuguese roll, toast it under the broiler with some butter and 2 pieces of cheddar, add the pork, and pour some sauce right on top.  I'll then add 2 red onion rings, a dollop of homemade coleslaw (mayo based) and go at it.
 
At a banquet I gave 2 bottles of this sauce to the caterer, being in ring-neck bottles, they thought it was a "Barbecue flavored salad dressing" due to the bottle shape (16 oz ring-neck) and put it at the salad station.  People loved it, and used about 20oz total.  One person complained of the heat but they also admitted they don't like any heat.  It was intended for the chicken breasts they were serving, but ended up as a dressing instead.
 
I've used it on a Philly cheesesteak.  I know, I know, sacred ground here.  But here's how I do it: Split and toast the bread, cook the shaved steak as desired, plate and drizzle the sauce right into the sandwich.
 
sandwich.jpg

 
Edit: whoops that's a pulled pork sandwich.  Can't find my Philly pic...
 
hope this helps
 
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sorry:
 
Meat + sauce = best (pulled pork, beef brisket, turkey, chicken, pork chops, wings, loin)
 
Bread + sauce = better (dipping, sandwich dressing, pretzels)
 
Salad + sauce = good (spinach salad, garden salad, chef salad, etc)
 
Ice Cream + sauce = poor (porcelain throne, privy, bean-jack, reading room, long drop, etc)
 
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One thing, you mention smoking with it but this has liquid smoke.
 
If I am going to smoke something there will surely be no liquid smoke in any product used, as to not interfere with the real smoke flavor. That's for a quick sauce application for non-smoked meats, to get the smoking experience. And I want to taste all the hard work I put in to see what is working and what is not as far as woods, bitterness, penetration, etc. I don't want a product to interfere with that.
 
Any BBQ purist is going to read the label and put it down. They will go for the CG sauce with none, or straight mustard.
 
However products with liquid smoke are popular, look at the BBQ sauces in the market. But people are not smoking with these. They are either grilling or dipping. Unless they don't know or don't care.
 
So to me this is not for smoking, but can be for grilling and dipping.
 
You kind of have to decide if this is really for smoking or not. If yes, remove the smoke. If not, and for grilling and dipping, leave it in if you like it. The reason commercial sauces have it in there is over 90% of those people are not smoking with it. Dads are grilling, kids are dipping chicken nuggets. Anyone smoking doesn't use that commercial sauce that is popular. You don't plan a 20 hour smoke and go load up on Kraft sauce. Smoking is usually a no-sauce game. Rubs... and sometimes mustard as a base. Sauces are usually for after, or the last few minutes to glaze... no liquid smoke needed there.
 
So, this looks to be aimed at the backyard griller, not the pitmaster or purist. A little liquid smoke kick to give grilled meat some wood flavor. If you are keeping it that way... I'd call it:
 
Molten Gold
Mustard Grilling and Dipping Sauce
(Mustard Grillin' and Dippin' Sauce)
 
Marinade is assumed. You can marinate with pretty much any sauce. Salad dressing, not worth mentioning. Smoking, would not target, but grilling yes.
 
Okay so most consumers consider grilling to be BBQ. I get that. So you could still call it BBQ sauce, but imo, grilling targets it a little better, and doesn't get the purists mad lol.
 
Grilling seems to be the best use, and dipping lets me know I can grill with it and I can also add it later, and I can dip many things in it. In Kentucky they call BBQ sauce dip, and in the Carolinas dipping sauces are popular for grilled and smoked meat.
 
Ah... not sure what I typed lol............................. hope it makes sense.
 
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