labels Sam & Oliver's Molten Gold BBQ sauce - new label critique

Sam & Oliver

Sam & Oliver

Bavarian Gold prototype 5-5.PNG

 
Here's some quick breakdown on how this label is similar but differs from the previous 2 product labels I have:
 
All labels will be on white rounded corner rectangles with glossy overlaminate and waterproof.
 
The label will be 3.25" tall by 9" wide.  Bavarian Gold will be printed with a 2rd color plate, unlike Cinder and Stoke, which used a single color and black.  This raises the cost of the label production slightly, since a 3rd plate must be created before the run is made.
 
The bottle chosen is a stout bottle that's 7" tall just like the 5oz Woozy bottle, but fatter, with a short neck by comparison.  I chose this, rather than the standard decanter style because it was unique, and on the shelf, the products are the same height, which helps in storage and creating a standardized height and look to the products if they are displayed in proximity, or on my booth display.
 
Bavarian Gold will feature the same heat index, at the same height and location as Cinder and Stoke, because it contains a re-formulated Cinder as an actual ingredient. (vinegar type was changed from distilled to match the recipe's predominant Cinder Vinegar base).
 
The challenge for this label is the inclusion of a 4th panel due to the width of the label.  Because the 5oz woozy labels are 5.5", this leaves an additional 3.5".  The 'front' was widened to 4" to not create such a large white 'frame' when viewed on a shelf from the front.  This leads to significantly more black on the front panel, which was adjusted to keep the same 'stripe logo' design for a consistent brand.
 
This product includes Coconut oil and Tamari sauce, which contains soybeans.  Both have to (by law) be printed below the ingredients list, which chews up an entire 2 line feeds of real estate.  The ingredient list, while relatively basic, have lots of sub-components, which prevented me from using the same Nutrition Panel as previous labels.
 
Left panel = Romance Panel
Center Panel = Brand/Logo/Graphics
Right Panel = Nutrition Panel/Ingredients/Allergens
Back Panel = Recipe
 
Things I'm still on the fence about:
Recipe suggesting pairing product with an alcoholic beverage (IPA) - this could potentially be on a shelf at a public grocery store.
Trying to find out if it's legal to declare the allergens as "Contains Coconut and Soybeans" rather than simply "Nuts, Soy"
 
/falls off soapbox
 
Thoughts?
 
Edit: stout bottle picture
5ef32c31c19372d4735d5a77f81bdbdd.jpg
 
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^^^  :lol:
 
Couple more renditions- 
Molten Gold Mustard
Grilling and Dipping Sauce
 
Molten Gold
BBQ Mustard Sauce
 
 
 
Mustard BBQ Sauce -vs- BBQ Mustard Sauce
 
By changing the word order, it makes a difference.  When I see Mustard BBQ sauce, I think it's a BBQ sauce made with mustard  as opposed to one of the other 10 BBQ sauce catergories they have in BBQ and hot sauce competitions (like mine and I'd think it should be some shade of brown).  BBQ Mustard Sauce reads like a Mustard Sauce (which goes goes with the goldenrod color) that is intended to be used for BBQ/Grilling, and after they read the label....salad dressing, dipping.....etc....
 
Most people interchange BBQ and Grilling and the hardcores will read the bottle and determine whether or not to use it with their smoked meats. 
 
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salsalady said:
Most people interchange BBQ and Grilling and the hardcores will read the bottle and determine whether or not to use it with their smoked meats.
Click to expand...
 
This is true but I like the word grilling, because I use more sauce there. BBQ sauce is usually the same ole same ole, grilling sauces are very different... if I am going to smoke I won't grab a sauce... if I am going to grill I might, so when it says grilling right on it, it piques my interest.
 
If I want a mustard sauce instead of a yellow mustard base before my rub, I would not want it to have smoke flavor.
 
To me, that's like... when making blueberry ice cream, why put fresh blueberries... and "natural blueberry flavor" from a bottle?
 
Label readers can figure it out I guess. But it also has to do with his intent, imo. For smoking, ditch it. Maybe add some chipolte.

PS. Not a fan of liquid smoke in general so I am biased. Carry on.
 
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"To me, that's like... when making blueberry ice cream, why put fresh blueberries... and "natural blueberry flavor" from a bottle?"
 
As a food processor, I can hypothesize that...  When making said blueberry ice cream, to get the level of intense blueberry flavor customers desire, there is no way to use enough fresh blueberries frozen into the ice cream to achieve the level of blueberry flavor desired.  Blame that on the modern USA pallate?  So a blueberry flavor extract or concentrate is utilized to bump up the blueberry flavor of the ice cream.  
 
Some are simple fruit concentrates that enhance the flavor of "said" fruit.  Not all are GMO/BADorganism/chemicallyextracted.  It's simply blueberries concentrated to intensify the flavor.
 
I know you know this, so why are we talking about this?  
 
 
PS- the liquid smoke I use is NOT the same as what you get at the store.  It's not even the same product.  I get where those who are actually smoking a meat in a smoker would not want a product with liquid smoke, but it does have it's place and purpose.  And not all "liquid smokes" are created equal.
 
 
 
 
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That's why I shouldn't use an analogy. Forget the fruit analogy.
 
But liquid smoke is crap lol. You won't get a magic smoke ring or wood flavor in your meat. You will taste...... smoke!!!! No magic bark. No magic anything. Just smoke flavor. Yes it will make a sauce smoky. No it will not make meat taste like BBQ.
 
There are many pitmasters that will even tell you, smoke is just the delivery method, you don't necessarily want smoke flavor. When you smoke right you get the flavor of the wood and subtle smoke.
 
Liquid smoke is just concentrated smoke condensate... to make some things smoky, period. Sure it has a use. Not in a BBQ sauce... that's for the general public, who are going to grill some drumsticks and want a smoky taste. And yes, there are a LOT of those sauces. No pitmaster worth his/her salt would use any during a smoke.
 
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Actually, the fruit analogy is very good.  If a person wants an intense blueberry flavor that will be diluted by cream and eggs in an "all natural" ice cream, they would look to a fruit CONCENTRATE.  The essence of the fruit.
 
While it may not be quite the same analogy................
 
liquid smoke will never replace a bark ring, but it does have it's places!  Dehydrated blueberries will never replace the fresh stuff....and blueberry concentrate (think...  pureed blueberries cooked down to reduce water content)  can be an "all natural" flavor booster for ice cream!  It's cooked down blueberries!  What's to worry about that?
 
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Set aside the smoke aspect.  
 
That's for a different thread/post, not this one.  I'll look at those links tomorrow.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
and since S&O's doesn't contain blueberries,   that convo should probably be tabled also.  
 
Back on topic~
 
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salsalady said:
 
liquid smoke will never replace a bark ring, but it does have it's places!  
Click to expand...
 
Yes - the garbage can, the incinerator, a desert isle, the bottom of a deep pit. All acceptable places for liquid smoke. 
The Hot Pepper said:
It's garbage and most would agree...
 
http://blog.fooducate.com/2014/07/09/is-smoke-flavoring-safe/
http://www.eater.com/2010/6/8/6730679/seriously-is-there-anything-worse-than-liquid-smoke
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/health-fitness/healthy-eating/cookingrecipes/is-liquid-smoke-safe?page=all

And if you disagree with that, it is still blasphemous. And is not a magic solution to BBQ.
 
It's a red flag ingredient, like HFCS.
Click to expand...
 
Stood out to me instantly. When I pick up a product and see "natural smoke flavoring" the decision to not buy is instant. Always has been. It's how I was raised. Now that's good parenting. 
 
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Throw your smoker and grill in the garbage also. 
 
 
(from the articles THP linked above)
"Should (PAH's in liquid smoke) be a cause for concern? Not for someone who occasionally consumes smoked meat or fish. In case you were wondering, the traditional meat smoking method is also fraught with potential for harm due to the same PAHs."
 
"Have you heard the latest? Turns out, those backyard barbecues we’ve been enjoying so much all summer could be contributing to increased cancer risk. (Doesn’t it sometimes seem as if scientists are just out to ruin all our fun?)
Unfortunately, it’s true: Cooking meat over hot coals or open flames can create compounds that cause cancer in animals.  And, sure enough, studies in humans show a suspicious link between cancer and consumption of meat—grilled meat, in particular."
 
"How Do Grilled Meats Cause Cancer?
There are two kinds of compounds in grilled meats that cause concern. The first are heterocyclic amines, or HCAs. These are formed when animal proteins come into contact with very hot surfaces—and the temperatures in your grill are likely to be much higher than those in your oven or on your stove-top.
The second problem is polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, or PAHs. These are produced when animal fats drip down onto hot coals or flames and ignite. The resulting smoke deposits harmful substances on the surface of the meat.
These compounds aren’t only a concern with red meat, by the way. They also occur in grilled pork, chicken, and fish. Vegetarians, you get off scot-free: grilling vegetables, mushrooms, tofu, and veggie burgers does not produce PAHs or HCAs. "
 
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I don't care about any of that fluff I just think liquid smoke taste disgusting. You've got to die of something, I'll take death by barbecue over getting hit by a bus any day.
Ask TB how he feels about liquid smoke Take his opinion and multiplied by five and that's how I feel.
:D
 
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SL you missed my point, it was, you can believe studies or not but the fact is, it is a red flag ingredient, and some people avoid it... just like HFCS which got a bad rap from an obesity study, and most will tell you is the same as processed sugar, both being bad but equally. But do people avoid it like the plague and grab the one with sugar? Yup.
 
And SL what if people are not smoking with it? Most people use BBQ sauce as a pour on condiment on meals even cooked in the microwave. So that is still going to be a red flag for them.
 
The fact is it is a red flag ingredient. I think it's cool to let someone know. If they proceed with it, fine! It's just information for them to have.
 
As far as making things smokier you are going to smoke... not for me, good pitmasters will tell you, it's not the the smoke "flavor" you are after, it's the flavor of the wood you want infused into the meat carried by the smoke... bad air flow and strong woods can even cause too much smoke "flavor" so as far as trying to intensify smoke flavor, that is not a goal when smoking.
 
A little look on the forum here, as LD hinted at, will let you know how most people feel about it. I think that is good information to have when in the R&D stages of a product.
 
Just info. If it's good it's good and he can do whatever he wants! We are just offering info here.
 
Where are we on the name????? ;)
 
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I like it!
 
And I pat myself on the back for naming it lol... 
 
Since you are doing all lowercase and bbq looks weird lower, why not spell it... I like it spelled better anyway.
 
mustard barbecue sauce
 
mustard bar-b-q- sauce
 
BBQ works to me but only when simply saying BBQ sauce... for some reason...
 
And spelling gives a little legitimacy to the product imo.
 
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How's this for a "Romance Panel Blurb"?
 
Molten Gold[SIZE=11pt]™ brings Bavarian influence and American barbecue together to craft this sweet & tangy mustard sauce.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Bring out the absolute best in your pulled pork, grilled chicken or as a [/SIZE][SIZE=14.6666669845581px]delicious[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] dipping sauce.[/SIZE]
 
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You have brings and then bring. Too many. ;)
 
You could replace American with Carolina, if you want to be specific. But sounds good.
 
"To craft" sounds weird, because it is crafted by you, not that combo.
 
"Bring out the absolute best in your pulled pork, grilled chicken or as a delicious dipping sauce."
This is awkward. "Or use as" maybe? Or needs a reword. Read from the beginning. "Or as" is wrong.
 
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Molten Gold™ brings Bavarian influence and American barbecue together in a sweet & tangy mustard sauce.  [SIZE=11pt]Use Molten Gold to bring out the absolute best in your pulled pork and grilled chicken or use as a delicious[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] dipping sauce.[/SIZE]
 
 
 
 
[SIZE=11pt]Still not getting the Bavarian aspect other than it contains mustard.  I don't think most people will get the connection.[/SIZE]
 
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Yup SL's is good except now you can take out the 2nd "use" because you have it at the head of the sentence. But can keep it too for reinforcement.
 
And agree, Bavarian sneaked back in there and how is it an influence?
 
:)
 
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