vendor Seed Prices

[AJ Drew]

The big boys like Pepper Joe and Puckerbutt seem to be hovering around $8.00 / pack of 10.  I read a lot of folk say this is a rediculous asking, but I am none too sure.  Unlike other industry, I think super hots are still cottage.  There is still a perso with a knife sorting and cutting, dicing and drying.  All by hand.

Are their prices really that bad when you consider the amount of labor involved in the effort?

 

[SmokenFire]

For the record:  
 
I have that same book on seed saving ajd, and have followed it for seeds that have grown (mostly) true last three years running.   Had my own version of cukaloupe before I bought it too - damn curcubits!  
 
Also John Ford of Ford's Fiery Foods did indeed give credit to Mike (buckeye) directly on his web page when I purchased the Allepo and Urfa Bieber seeds, which grew true this year.   
 
Felt compelled to add this.  

 

[Sarg3]

Whole bunch of stuff.



 

He(McDermott) is the man in the video you posted

 

[mmcdermott1]

Ok..where to begin. First of all, you apparently haven't made the connection that the person in the video is ME
 
now...
You didn't "trash" or say anything? Let me refresh your memory. " Notice how they are grown.  Not in a green house.  Not isolated in any way.  In fact, non-reaper plants growing along side reapers, market with flags". 
That statement is 100% inaccurate. Those plants were all isolated. They were also NOT for seed stock and you put out the assumption that when you buy the seeds from Ed (puckerbutt) that is what you are buying..non isolated seeds even though none of those peppers are for seed stock. You are making statements and assumptions about something you know nothing about. The flags in the video, since you obviously didn't watch it or you simply didn't listen were plants that didn't grow true. The video was made (by me) when there was an uproar about the Reaper not being stable. There were over 2000 plants in that video and I used the flags to show the 20ish plants out of 2000+ that didn't grow true to prove a point about the stability. You completely missed the point and the message (and details) of the video. So yes sir, you actually did spread completely inaccurate information about not only my company but also Ed's and with that, yes I will say again you need to be very careful when you want to throw out accusations about something you don't know anything about. And I am well aware of what large scale growers do..i grow about 25,000 plants a year. Is that big enough for you?
 
Greenhouses: My point to you was that you do NOT need greenhouses to isolate or to do anything else with peppers.
 
All peppers to puckerbutt: You said " Puckerbutt provided him with Carolina Reaper seeds, he grows Carolina Reaper for Puckerbutt ONLY.  All the peppers he grows are sold back to Puckerbutt.". While all the Carolina Reapers go back to Ed (to make his mash and sauces that are reaper based), "all peppers he grows are sold back to puckerbutt" is also VERY innaccurate. We grow about 200+ varieties per year for different customers produce needs. Ed is one of MANY MANY customers our produce goes to. Another innaccurate statement.
 
Urfa Biber: That comment wasn't to you, it was to another poster.
 
 
 "And you probably already know this since you seem to know everything about my business and eds business...": Well according to your post you know where i get seeds, who i sell to, how I grow. You also assumed you know which seeds Ed gets and sells. So yes sir, you did assert you know far more about my business and Eds business than you do. As you said above, you don't know me or ed or anything about how we do biz so stop posting like you do.
 
 
And to your last comment, no, im not a big mean person. Ask anyone who knows me, Im actually quite nice and quite giving. But when someone like you (who by your own words is new to this forum and most people in it) comes on here telling the world what you THINK someone else is doing and how they are doing it, yes it annoys me. Especially when they use MY video and don't even take the time to watch it and/or understand what the video is about which you obviously didn't in either case. 
 
Have a good day and welcome to the forum.

By the way, I checked out your site a bit. Looks good. One typo I noticed just FYI..
Created by Ed Currie at the Puckerbutt Pepper company, the Carolina Reaper was declared the hottest pepper in the world by the Guinness Book of World Records in 2012.  Originally sold under the trademarked name “Smoking Ed’s Carolina Reaper”, this pepper is also sometimes called the HB22B.
 
 
It was actually (and still technically is) HP22B not HB22B. The HP stands for HIgher Power (God) as Ed is a religious kind of guy

For the record:  
 
I have that same book on seed saving ajd, and have followed it for seeds that have grown (mostly) true last three years running.   Had my own version of cukaloupe before I bought it too - damn curcubits!  
 
Also John Ford of Ford's Fiery Foods did indeed give credit to Mike (buckeye) directly on his web page when I purchased the Allepo and Urfa Bieber seeds, which grew true this year.   
 
Felt compelled to add this.  

Glad you grew them out. We noticed even the first year from the original seed stock that Urfa tend to vary. Some are bigger some are smaller. Some are a bit on the hotter/sweet side and some are just sweet. Not real sure why they have the variation as I know they are 100% stable but they for sure vary a bit.

 

[SmokenFire]

Glad you grew them out. We noticed even the first year from the original seed stock that Urfa tend to vary. Some are bigger some are smaller. Some are a bit on the hotter/sweet side and some are just sweet. Not real sure why they have the variation as I know they are 100% stable but they for sure vary a bit.

 
I did note hotter and sweeter.  Chalked it up to some plants getting shaded and less water (smaller/hotter) and the other taller plants who yielded longer sweeter peppers.  Very nice chopped fresh into giardiniera but even better roasted.  And I flat out loved the Allepos, so there's that too.  

 

[AJ Drew]

SmokeFire - Do you have the new version?  If so, do you know if there is enough changed for me to want the second editiion?

MMC - I did not trash on you or your company.  I agreed with Pfeffer that growing outdoors is fine, showed your video as an example of what is fine.  Pointed out that in the video, you say the peppers are all going back to Puckerbutt.  All in support of how it is fine to grow OP.  You, for some messed up reason, assumed I was somehow trashing your business.  I ask for an example of how I trashed you, you quote me saying that those peppers were not grown in a greenhouse.  Uh, they are not.  This is a statement of fact.  A statement of fact made in SUPPORT of Pfeffer's statement.  I used you as an example in SUPPORT of Pfeffer's statement.

Yes, I can certainly see where I was talking about the video you might think I were talking about your entire business.  Well, I could see that if I was talking about your business, mentioned your business name, or did anything else to indicate I was addressing anything beyond what is in the video.  So a sane, sensible friendly person replies: No guy, in the video I was just speaking to that one crop.  Instead, you reply:

"Be real careful about trashing a company you have neither bought from nor obviously know shit about."

Yes you are a mean person.  Your parents shoudl be ashamed of how you act in public.

 

 

[mmcdermott1]

ok buddy..you want to go at it? Im mean? My parents should be ashamed? Ok..lets boogie.
 
Since you apparently are to stupid to read your own writings let me repeat..
"Notice how they are grown.  Not in a green house.  Not isolated in any way.  In fact, non-reaper plants growing along side reapers, market with flags, not removed because the pollin has already spread by the time the pods have formed.
So, when you purchase Carolina Reaper seeds from the original cultivator, from the company that came up with the thing, what you are buying is open pollinated seeds." THAT ENTIRE STATEMENT IS 100% UNTRUE
 
I messed that up? No, I didnt. What you stated was that these plants are not isolated and since i send them back to puckerbutt if you buy their seeds that is what you are getting, UNISOLATED SEEDS. And AGAIN..pay close attention, you seem to have a hard time doing that...the peppers in question are NOT used for seeds stock. YOU claimed they in fact are. Read your own writing dummy.
 
 
There, was that mean enough for you? I can keep going if you want to keep going. I tried to be nice and you apparently want to go at it so let's have at it.

 

[Pfeffer]

Hi MMcDermott,

The term open pollinated and isolated were used correctly imho. You first mention isolating peppers is basically the same as isolating prisoners - then you mention that you can isolate by distance. I really hope they lock the rapists and murderers up in your area. Putting them outside the town centre to isolate them from the local community would be a bad idea.

An average beehive will forrage for food in a 3 to 4 mile radius. Unless you can garantee that no pollinating bug can find another chili/bell pepper in your town, you're not growing them isolated.

And about the Ufra Biber? That's a very bold statement which I can debunk directly. The Ufra is very common in Europe and I know several people that traded them with US growers. Even I sent quite a number of CP commercial seeds over myself.


OP - Pollinators, wind etc can pollinate
CP - Plants are blocked from other pollinating options like wind, bugs (for example with teabags, glue etc)

Growing in a green house is still OP but is very likely to grow true. Growing in an open field is not.

But again; OP and CP are overrated as long as the consumer is told what he is buying. And yes, I agree that Seeds from a huge field with only one variety will most likely grow true, but don't go around telling they are isolated because that's simply just not true.

PS; no need for a flame war, lets be adults in this discussion.

 

[mmcdermott1]

Actually they were not. 
He said they "are not isolated in any way". Yes, DISTANCE is a form of isolation.
The Urfa was in fact commercially brought here by me. Were there a few seeds that possibly were here before? Sure. Were they here on a large scale? No
 
You are factually incorrect on growing in a field not growing true. In many parts of Tobago, India, spain, france and other areas they grow a certain pepper..thats ALL they grow and they are isolated by being the only type grown, they are open pollinated and they are true. So your statement that growing in a field wont grow true is extremely inaccurate because YES they are isolated assuming nobody close is growing other varieties. 
 
You should do some research on all the countries all these peppers come from.....you might learn something.

I believe the "advised" distance is 5 miles..don't quote me on that though. But whatever the suggested distance is between types..you are FULLY isolated from cross pollination. With that said, there are other ways to isolate for seed stock as well..
 
And no flames here with you. Good discussion/debate. The other assbag is a different story

 

[Pfeffer]

It's still not isolation, yes it's highly likely that the seeds will grow true. It's just beating the odds with volume, but it does not guarantee that there is no hobby grower growing his cayennes and jalapeños in that area. If 99,99% of the peppers are piment de espelette in one area, there's still a chance a Pollinator can ruin the party. The area growing is quite common over here (I actually live in Europe).

Regarding the Ufra, sorry to ruin your market - but I did send a crap load of them to one of the larger vendors here (with the correct paperwork). So if they are not out there yet, they soon will be.

 

[AJ Drew]

mmcdermot1, all the quotes are the guy in the video who you say you are:

“…thirty six of them are not reapers” – Your words from the video.  I said you were growing reapers alongside non reapers.  You said you were growing reapers alongside non reapers.  Where did I lie?

“All the peppers we have are going directly to Ed Currie” – Speaking about the Carolina Reapers, I said they were all going to Ed Currie.  You said all of the peppers were going to Ed Currie.  Where did I lie?

“…we got our seeds from Ed Currie” – I said you got your reaper seeds from Ed Currie.  You said you got your reaper seeds from Ed Currie.  Where did I lie?
“Thirty six of them are not reapers” – I said you were growing non reapers next to reapers.  You said you were growing non reapers next to reapers.  Where did I lie?

“…but they aren’t a reaper” – Again, I said you were growing reapers next to non reapers.  In the video, you identified plants and said they aren’t reapers.  Where did I lie?

“we will not be selling reapers in any way, shape, or form to the general public.  Plants, seeds, peppers, nothing”.

Your website sells Carolina Reaper products.  So I submit that you are angry at me for repeating things YOU SAID in the video which you forgot saying and which may have been true at the time but are no longer true.  You do not see me saying you lie. 

Now, Hot Pepper (forum owner I think) is saying things like Ah, new seed sellers always bash the established seed sellers.  Not me.  I am nice and friendly to just about everyone.  Two months ago, I wrote an article on Puckerbutt and Ed on my blog.  It is titled “Ed Currie Fan Post”

http://peppersbymail.com/ed-currie-fan-post/

“…this is a cut throat industry”

Ye, I am finding that out from the way people like you act.  I did not attack you, I did not slander you, I did nothing mean to you what so ever.  I discussed what you said in the video that you and your wife made. 

Please watch the video you made, listen to what you said, read what I said and then do the sane and rational thing, write a public apology to me and then write to Hot Pepper and tell him what you indeed said in the video that you made.  I have given you no reason to attack me this way.  I just repeated what you said about yourself.

mmcdermot1, all the quotes are the guy in the video who you say you are:

“…thirty six of them are not reapers” – Your words from the video.  I said you were growing reapers alongside non reapers.  You said you were growing reapers alongside non reapers.  Where did I lie?

“All the peppers we have are going directly to Ed Currie” – Speaking about the Carolina Reapers, I said they were all going to Ed Currie.  You said all of the peppers were going to Ed Currie.  Where did I lie?

“…we got our seeds from Ed Currie” – I said you got your reaper seeds from Ed Currie.  You said you got your reaper seeds from Ed Currie.  Where did I lie?
“Thirty six of them are not reapers” – I said you were growing non reapers next to reapers.  You said you were growing non reapers next to reapers.  Where did I lie?

“…but they aren’t a reaper” – Again, I said you were growing reapers next to non reapers.  In the video, you identified plants and said they aren’t reapers.  Where did I lie?

“we will not be selling reapers in any way, shape, or form to the general public.  Plants, seeds, peppers, nothing”.

Your website sells Carolina Reaper products.  So I submit that you are angry at me for repeating things YOU SAID in the video which you forgot saying and which may have been true at the time but are no longer true.  You do not see me saying you lie. 

Now, Hot Pepper (forum owner I think) is saying things like Ah, new seed sellers always bash the established seed sellers.  Not me.  I am nice and friendly to just about everyone.  Two months ago, I wrote an article on Puckerbutt and Ed on my blog.  It is titled “Ed Currie Fan Post”

http://peppersbymail.com/ed-currie-fan-post/

“…this is a cut throat industry”

Ye, I am finding that out from the way people like you act.  I did not attack you, I did not slander you, I did nothing mean to you what so ever.  I discussed what you said in the video that you and your wife made. 

Please watch the video you made, listen to what you said, read what I said and then do the sane and rational thing, write a public apology to me and then write to Hot Pepper and tell him what you indeed said in the video that you made.  I have given you no reason to attack me this way.  I just repeated what you said about yourself.

Oh wait, just saw Pfeffer's comment and now I think I understand.  You and he are at odds over a pepper or the seed.  Guy, I got nothing to do with that.  I just agreed with him that the the big boys ( like you ) gow works just fine.  Those non reaper plants that YOU said were growing rigt along side the reapers, you discarded the pods of course.

Pfeffer has been very nice to me.  Just cause I am nice to him does not mean you gotta be mean to me.  I am a nice person.  I do not deserve people like you spreading lies about me.  Now please apologize and tell Hot Pepper about your mistake.  You said those things in the video and you really hurt me.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

mmcdermot1, all the quotes are the guy in the video who you say you are:

thirty six of them are not reapers Your words from the video.  I said you were growing reapers alongside non reapers.  You said you were growing reapers alongside non reapers.  Where did I lie?

All the peppers we have are going directly to Ed Currie Speaking about the Carolina Reapers, I said they were all going to Ed Currie.  You said all of the peppers were going to Ed Currie.  Where did I lie?

we got our seeds from Ed Currie I said you got your reaper seeds from Ed Currie.  You said you got your reaper seeds from Ed Currie.  Where did I lie?
Thirty six of them are not reapers I said you were growing non reapers next to reapers.  You said you were growing non reapers next to reapers.  Where did I lie?

but they arent a reaper Again, I said you were growing reapers next to non reapers.  In the video, you identified plants and said they arent reapers.  Where did I lie?

we will not be selling reapers in any way, shape, or form to the general public.  Plants, seeds, peppers, nothing.

Your website sells Carolina Reaper products.  So I submit that you are angry at me for repeating things YOU SAID in the video which you forgot saying and which may have been true at the time but are no longer true.  You do not see me saying you lie. 

Now, Hot Pepper (forum owner I think) is saying things like Ah, new seed sellers always bash the established seed sellers.  Not me.  I am nice and friendly to just about everyone.  Two months ago, I wrote an article on Puckerbutt and Ed on my blog.  It is titled Ed Currie Fan Post

http://peppersbymail.com/ed-currie-fan-post/

this is a cut throat industry

Ye, I am finding that out from the way people like you act.  I did not attack you, I did not slander you, I did nothing mean to you what so ever.  I discussed what you said in the video that you and your wife made. 

Please watch the video you made, listen to what you said, read what I said and then do the sane and rational thing, write a public apology to me and then write to Hot Pepper and tell him what you indeed said in the video that you made.  I have given you no reason to attack me this way.  I just repeated what you said about yourself.

mmcdermot1, all the quotes are the guy in the video who you say you are:

thirty six of them are not reapers Your words from the video.  I said you were growing reapers alongside non reapers.  You said you were growing reapers alongside non reapers.  Where did I lie?

All the peppers we have are going directly to Ed Currie Speaking about the Carolina Reapers, I said they were all going to Ed Currie.  You said all of the peppers were going to Ed Currie.  Where did I lie?

we got our seeds from Ed Currie I said you got your reaper seeds from Ed Currie.  You said you got your reaper seeds from Ed Currie.  Where did I lie?
Thirty six of them are not reapers I said you were growing non reapers next to reapers.  You said you were growing non reapers next to reapers.  Where did I lie?

but they arent a reaper Again, I said you were growing reapers next to non reapers.  In the video, you identified plants and said they arent reapers.  Where did I lie?

we will not be selling reapers in any way, shape, or form to the general public.  Plants, seeds, peppers, nothing.

Your website sells Carolina Reaper products.  So I submit that you are angry at me for repeating things YOU SAID in the video which you forgot saying and which may have been true at the time but are no longer true.  You do not see me saying you lie. 

Now, Hot Pepper (forum owner I think) is saying things like Ah, new seed sellers always bash the established seed sellers.  Not me.  I am nice and friendly to just about everyone.  Two months ago, I wrote an article on Puckerbutt and Ed on my blog.  It is titled Ed Currie Fan Post

http://peppersbymail.com/ed-currie-fan-post/

this is a cut throat industry

Ye, I am finding that out from the way people like you act.  I did not attack you, I did not slander you, I did nothing mean to you what so ever.  I discussed what you said in the video that you and your wife made. 

Please watch the video you made, listen to what you said, read what I said and then do the sane and rational thing, write a public apology to me and then write to Hot Pepper and tell him what you indeed said in the video that you made.  I have given you no reason to attack me this way.  I just repeated what you said about yourself.

Oh wait, just saw Pfeffer's comment and now I think I understand.  You and he are at odds over a pepper or the seed.  Guy, I got nothing to do with that.  I just agreed with him that the the big boys ( like you ) gow works just fine.  Those non reaper plants that YOU said were growing rigt along side the reapers, you discarded the pods of course.

Pfeffer has been very nice to me.  Just cause I am nice to him does not mean you gotta be mean to me.  I am a nice person.  I do not deserve people like you spreading lies about me.  Now please apologize and tell Hot Pepper about your mistake.  You said those things in the video and you really hurt me.

 
What the hell? You make this stuff up as you see fit. I never said anything remotely close to that or even made a comment toward it!
 
You just make all this all up in your head. Don't misquote me or put words in my mouth again! I am not even a part of this, I tried to settle it in your other thread where you called Mike out... but you ignored it and kept making more stuff up. You posted a couple times of things I am doing or saying, I seem to occupy a lot of space in your head. Only problem is it is all imaginary. Not sure if this is a mental thing or drugs but please stop.
 
 

 

[AJ Drew]

Hot Pepper said: "Oh yeah he's new in the seed biz. This makes much more sense now. Words against other companies can definitely come back to bite you!"

I paraphrased, not quted thus: "...is saying things like Ah, new seed sellers alwasy bash the established seed sellers"

You seem to have indicated that being new to the seed business makes sense i would attack other companies.  If I paraphrased you incorrectly, I apologize.  However, it does not really matter at this point as I have demonstrated rather clearly that I did not say anythign against another business.  In fact, I have written fan posts about some of the folk that I was just accused of attacking.  Ed Currie is amazing for more reasons than I have mentoned.  His walkign about way from drugs and alcohol, finding God, it is an inspiration.

You do realize the original name of the Carolina Reaper included HP for "higher power".  It is a term that folk in recovery use to denote God without limitting to one form of religion.  Other folk use the term, but his triumpth over addiction and involving God in his work is amazing in this era when so many people focus on secular issues.  To stand up in a business world and proclaim a love of God, to denounce drinking and drugging, that takes some serious balls.  So I gotta respect the heck out the man.

I realize it might be hard to believe, but I really don't talk crap about people or other businesses.  Well other than some sick folk I think promote child raping.  Game on with that lot.  I am sorry if running this forum you have met other examples of new folk. I once ran a very large community site and got kind of tainted to online humanity myself, so I know what it can be like and I very much sympathize for what you must think of potential from new folk.  But I think if you read my posts, you will see that I really am a nice person, not trashing anyone.

I hope you are the same and can see past my feeling so hurt.  Folk have explained that is just how SOME folk act here and that revealing emotions of being hurt is bad.  I'll be doing that and wish you and this place the best.  It really is that cool.  Most of the folk are very, very, very nice and helpful.  I shouldnt get all hurt when one or two accused me of lying, especially when it is so easy to show they were mistaken.

 

[Pr0digal_son]

Now that I am not mobile, let me go into a bit more detail:
 
To answer the original question:
NO those prices are not out of control. Puckerbutt has a lot of overhead to cover.
 
As far as Judy and Peter yes they are both super great and have great prices on some fine products.
 
Now lets talk Open Pollinated (OP) and isolation and all those fancy terms.
It drives me nuts when people use these two terms hand in hand like it is one or the other. That notion is absolutely FALSE and anyone who tells you differently has no clue what they are talking about. 
 
Isolation: All this means is that the person is using a means to isolate the flowers of plants (peppers or otherwise) from crossing with other flowers of plants of a different species. There are many methods to accomplish this (and none of them are 100%). You can use greenhouses, netting, distance, etc etc. That is ALL isolation means. Period. Ever heard of someone being stuck in "isolation" in prison? Same thing.
 
Open Pollinated: Let me fill you in on a secret. Unless you are using an artificial/manual means to pollinate the flowers yourself, ALL plants are "open pollinated". That term is a fancy way of saying you are letting nature do its thing. In terms of peppers specifically, if you put 1000 plants of the same type in a greenhouse and just let them do their thing, they are isolated and they are also  OPEN POLLINATED whether they pollinate themselves (asexual), by bees/bugs, by wind or by any other un-attended means. How do you think peppers in the wild produce? Unless YOU physically go pollinate each and every flower by hand, they are Open Pollinated. Period.
 
Open Pollinated vs Isolation: As mentioned I don't know why people say it's this or it's that. They have nothing to do with one another. You can be isolated and still be OP and you can be OP and still be isolated. It is NOT one or the other. 
 
 
Are open pollinated isolated plants going to produce pods with seeds that grow true...YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES...AND yes[/size]
 
End of rant

If you are just chest puffing,that's fine,we all do it. If you are trying to educate,you may want to educate yourself first.


This is the only comment that resembles any truth.

"Are open pollinated isolated plants going to produce pods with seeds that grow true...YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES...AND yes"

If you have open-pollinated seeds and grow in 100% isolation,ie. a grow tent in your house,the progeny of those plants will grow true if no mutations happen.

"ALL plants are "open pollinated"

This is as far from the truth as you can get. I think you are mixing self-pollinated,cross-pollinated and open-pollinated. An OP plant does not mean it wasn't isolated.

You will see folks in these clandestine chile breeding circles offer a SASBE for Reaplah Omega x Fuscia Deathalokia F-2 "OP".

How can someone take a breeder or even seed vendor serious if they don't know the difference between open-pollinated and hybrid? Polar opposites. I'm just a lowly backyard hobbyist though.

 

[mmcdermott1]

Hmmm...
1. Not chest puffing, I wasnt even on THP and was brought into a conversation. I was simply correcting him.
2. Ummm..what part did I miss. " I think you are mixing self-pollinated,cross-pollinated and open-pollinated. An OP plant does not mean it wasn't isolated". Isn't that what I said? I already said OP doesnt mean NOT isolated. I believe I said unless you manually pollinate (self pollinate) they are open pollinated by any other means....that can be by bug/bees, wind, etc etc. I think you did not read what I wrote. OP doesnt mean not isolated. Not isolated doesn't mean OP. They, as I already stated, are two completely different things. Isolated means just that, isolated from other species. Open pollinated has nothing to do with isolation per say. Open pollinated may or may not be isolated. What did you miss?

It's still not isolation, yes it's highly likely that the seeds will grow true. It's just beating the odds with volume, but it does not guarantee that there is no hobby grower growing his cayennes and jalapeños in that area. If 99,99% of the peppers are piment de espelette in one area, there's still a chance a Pollinator can ruin the party. The area growing is quite common over here (I actually live in Europe).

Regarding the Ufra, sorry to ruin your market - but I did send a crap load of them to one of the larger vendors here (with the correct paperwork). So if they are not out there yet, they soon will be.

 
I think I said this. There is a recommended distance if you OP in regards to how close other species can be without the chance of cross pollinating. And if he hasn't brought them out he will be soon? I brought out the urfa 3 years ago but don't really care. My point was in reference to someone mentioning another seller that has them and I simply pointed out that they all came from me. Not a single person sold Urfa until I sent them out and they were very hard to find..even in this forum.

 

[Pr0digal_son]

I think what you are missing is that you claim all plants are open-pollinated,that isn't true. I'm sure a huge portion of what you are growing is not OP. That goes for the rest of us that grow the latest and greatest. There is no way you are seeing 100 new OP varieties each year when nobody is taking time to properly select or stabilize these mutts.

Saying a hybrid you are growing is OP because it was left to the wind and bees to pollinate is like saying someone is kind of pregnant. It's one or the other.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

Hot Pepper said: "Oh yeah he's new in the seed biz. This makes much more sense now. Words against other companies can definitely come back to bite you!"

I paraphrased, not quted thus: "...is saying things like Ah, new seed sellers alwasy bash the established seed sellers"

You seem to have indicated that being new to the seed business makes sense i would attack other companies.  If I paraphrased you incorrectly, I apologize.  However, it does not really matter at this point as I have demonstrated rather clearly that I did not say anythign against another business.  In fact, I have written fan posts about some of the folk that I was just accused of attacking.  Ed Currie is amazing for more reasons than I have mentoned.  His walkign about way from drugs and alcohol, finding God, it is an inspiration.

 
Wow. Friend, you made another thread called "Someone here threatened me" to call out a member and bring to our attention that you were not threatened at all, and that was my reply telling you what Mike meant. How did you not get that? You quoted his "threat" and we were all trying to get you to understand what it meant. YOUR words CAN come back to bite you or your business is the gist of it. I was agreeing with that from the poster above me. How the hell does that lead to me saying "Ah, new seed sellers always bash the established seed sellers?" In what world? They don't so I would never generalize like that! These were words to YOU! Yet you spin it into me saying "Ah, new seed sellers alwasy bash the established seed sellers."
 
I guess you won't heed the warning either, since you like words, a lot of words, and you like to "forget" what people said, quote:
 

Hot Pepper - I forget exactly what you said, but it was like

 ...just to make up your own words in your own head. Just please refrain from putting them on the forum if these imaginary thoughts are about myself or the great memberbase here.
 
You seem to like drama. That may be a problem. Those members don't last long here. Please read that carefully and understand it.
 
Thank you.

 

[Hawaiianero]

Damn, I ran out of popcorn!!
Gotta get me some peanuts, maybe some boiled in salty habanero water. Chase it down with a few brews
SmokenFire mentioned early on in this thread that you gotta have some thick skin to be a vendor, some guys need to read that part again.
 
Spending too much negative effort on the small fights might cost you the entire battle.
 
Oh yeah, a little FYI, Don't Piss Off Da Boss

 

[The Hot Pepper]

Have to clear my name after that misquote. Imagine if new vendors/members read that. This guy is playing dangerously with other people's words.

 

[mmcdermott1]

I think what you are missing is that you claim all plants are open-pollinated,that isn't true. I'm sure a huge portion of what you are growing is not OP. That goes for the rest of us that grow the latest and greatest. There is no way you are seeing 100 new OP varieties each year when nobody is taking time to properly select or stabilize these mutts.

Saying a hybrid you are growing is OP because it was left to the wind and bees to pollinate is like saying someone is kind of pregnant. It's one or the other.

 
lol. i yi yi...
NO im not missing the point, you are. a HYBRID is when two species are crossed. If it was by accident YES it was not isolated and IT WAS OP. If YOU intentionally did it, then no it wasn't open pollinated..but as I said in ALL my statements that would be manually pollinating..aka self pollinating...you manually did it. I already said that. If you did not intentionally and by hand pollinate the flowers then YES my friend..they were open pollinated. Period.
 
I NEVER said "all plants are open pollinated". I said, if you reread, that if you personally did not pollinate the flowers by hand then YES they are open pollinated and I stick by that statement because it is fact.

Open pollination is pollination by insects, birds, wind, or other natural mechanisms, and contrasts with cleistogamy, closed pollination, which is one of the many types of self pollination.[1] Open pollination also contrasts withcontrolled pollination, a procedure used to ensure that all seeds of a crop are descended from parents with known traits, and are therefore more likely to have the desired traits.
 
Hybrid pollination, a type of controlled pollination in which the pollen comes from a different strain (or species), can be used to increase crop suitability, especially through heterosis. 
 
 
hybrids that are created by accident while are indeed a hybrid/cross..they WERE in fact open pollinated.
 
A controlled hybrid means someone intentionally did it..and I agree is NOT open pollinated and I never said it was, on the contrary.

 

[FGpepperguy]

Ban hammer incoming?