vendor Seed Prices

The big boys like Pepper Joe and Puckerbutt seem to be hovering around $8.00 / pack of 10.  I read a lot of folk say this is a rediculous asking, but I am none too sure.  Unlike other industry, I think super hots are still cottage.  There is still a perso with a knife sorting and cutting, dicing and drying.  All by hand.

Are their prices really that bad when you consider the amount of labor involved in the effort?
 
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mmcdermott1 said:
lol. i yi yi...
NO im not missing the point, you are. a HYBRID is when two species are crossed. If it was by accident YES it was not isolated and IT WAS OP. If YOU intentionally did it, then no it wasn't open pollinated..but as I said in ALL my statements that would be manually pollinating..aka self pollinating...you manually did it. I already said that. If you did not intentionally and by hand pollinate the flowers then YES my friend..they were open pollinated. Period.
 
I NEVER said "all plants are open pollinated". I said, if you reread, that if you personally did not pollinate the flowers by hand then YES they are open pollinated and I stick by that statement because it is fact.
Open pollination is pollination by insectsbirdswind, or other natural mechanisms, and contrasts with cleistogamy, closed pollination, which is one of the many types of self pollination.[1] Open pollination also contrasts withcontrolled pollination, a procedure used to ensure that all seeds of a crop are descended from parents with known traits, and are therefore more likely to have the desired traits.
 
Hybrid pollination, a type of controlled pollination in which the pollen comes from a different strain (or species), can be used to increase crop suitability, especially through heterosis
 
 
hybrids that are created by accident while are indeed a hybrid/cross..they WERE in fact open pollinated.
 
A controlled hybrid means someone intentionally did it..and I agree is NOT open pollinated and I never said it was, on the contrary.

You should run for office spinmeister lol.

There is no such thing as an OP hybrid,accidental or manual. It's a hybrid or it's OP.

You might be thinking of OP as how a chile is pollinated. Chile blossoms have male and female reproductive parts and self-pollinate. They don't need wind,bugs,or manual help to pollinate. This is basic gardening,I don't need google for insight. Wind and bugs can cause cross pollination,I agree to that.

An OP variety will have stability. Grow out 5000 of your Urfa and 5000 Bubblegums and tell me what the OP variety is.

Been nice debating. Take it easy.
 
mmcdermott1 said: "if you personally did not pollinate the flowers by hand then YES they are open pollinated and I stick by that statement because it is fact."

mmcdermott1, you and Pr0digal_son are using similiar terms to discuss something different.  No reason for you to rag  on him.  He is using the terms to denote the plant.  You are using the terms to denote how pollination is accomplished.  His use of the term is much more in keeping with seed savers, heirloom perpetuators, and home gardening.  Your use of the term to describe a method rather than a plant characteristic is an industrial thing.  You are a big time grower, acres of crop.  I am willing to bet that like me, he is a gardner / homesteader who uses the terms the way they are used outside of your huge industry.

If you would talk to Pr0digal_son civily and with respect, read what he is saying, you would probably come to the same conclusion I have.  That he is using the term open pollination to mean flowers that open and make it possible for the pollen to spread.  This is opposed to cleistogamy where the flowers are stingy bastards which do not open and share their pollin.  Things like peanuts, peas, and beans.  Oddly, also Viola.  Odd because the general rule of thumb is that open pollinating plants have perty flowers and cleistogamy do not.  I have never looked at a peanut plant and stood in awe at its beauty.

So you can see how your statement is bunk and you kind of look silly.  I have never hand pollinated a peanut, pea, or bean and yet none of these things are open pollinated.  They are cleistogamy / self pollinating.  This is not to say that an open pollination plant can not self pollinate.  As Pr0digal_son pointed out, open pollinating plants can do so without wind, bugs, or any help other than gravity.  I do shake branches I have bagged for seed saving to help things along, but as long as the boy parts are higher than the girl parts, some of the pollen will fall even without wind.

Please guy, you are a big time grower that many folk here can learn from.  Stop being mean to people.  Even if they do not have acres and acres of plants, there is something to learn from folklike Pr0digal_son.  He is obviously not the same type of grower as you, but that does not make him bad, wrong, or somehow beneath you.
 
Pr0digal_son, if I am wrong about you being common stock / working class gardner, I apologize for the assumption.  I mean it as a compliment.  Like eating at the local pizza place and not Pizza Hut or what ever.  Nothing wrong with Pizza Hut, just not my thing. 
 
ajdrew said:
Stop being mean to people.
 
Why do you throw little statements in there that don't exist. To get people on your side because they will read it and believe you if they haven't followed the whole thread?
 
I have no idea about pollination or growing anything but there is nothing wrong with a spirited debate. How is spirited mean? Where is this meanness? Threats, attacks, mean, you love these buzz words to try to win people over.
 
Spirited = passionate and determined.
 
Hawaiianero - Now I wish it were July and I could post a photo of me standing in awe at a peanut plant.  Seriously though, no clue how viola gets on the list.  I don't tend to grow things I do not eat.  It -looks- like open pollination.

Meinchoh - Cause one of the teams here sparkles in the daylight and the other grows fangs and long hair when the moon is full.  Favorite part of FBI is the Twilight puke bucket.

Hot Pepper - The video is in and of itself all the convincing I need on that dead discussion.  I was right, he was wrong, done.  I was wrong to express being hurt and have apologized.

Pr0digal_son shared his views, provided insight, and expanded this forum in a possitive way.
MM replied: "Wrong"

I think that was mean.  Would you prefer I use the word 'rude'?  So if when you say my side, you mean polite conversation which expands the discussion and helps us all to learn, then yes.  When I say someone should stop being mean, i am trying to convert people to civil conversation.

 
 
ajdrew said:
Hot Pepper - The video is in and of itself all the convincing I need on that dead discussion.  I was right, he was wrong, done.  I was wrong to express being hurt and have apologized.

Pr0digal_son shared his views, provided insight, and expanded this forum in a possitive way.
MM replied: "Wrong"

I think that was mean. 


 
 
I guess you refuse to see hypocrisy?
 
You just said he was "wrong, done" meaning no discussion, you are 100% right.
 
But he posts "Wrong" and he is mean.
 
Wow man. Maybe your definition of mean is how many words it takes to express the same exact sentiment!
 
Or were you being mean???????????
 
 
I'm out of this box of Froot Loops. To quote ajdrew, I am "done!"
 
Hot Pepper - Yes, I stopped arguing that salt was salty. MM said X in his video.  Then he demanded he never said X & threatens to sue me for saying he said X.  He was a big babby for lashing out at me in error and I was a big babby for expressing such hurt.  We have both figured out that we were being dumb shits and moved on.

Is that not what you wanted us to do? 
 
That is my understanding.  I thought it was a physical threat, he explained it was a slander thing.  He blew up.  I blew up.  We both looked like complete idiots.  I posted the exact quotes from the video and now he seems to understand that I was not attacking him, but repeating what he said in the video to further the conversation about open vs. isolation.  Very glad we found resolve.

I do not know the whole story with MM, Ed Currie, and other big time folk.  From what I can tell, based mainly on something Hot Pepper said about new seed sellers, that people come along and try to trash on the guy on top.  So the guys on top get mighty defensive about it.  I can certianly understand why they would.  They have put a lot of work into their reputations and their product.  So figuring that out, there is much less hurt felt. 

I wish MM well and hope he particupates further in the OP discussion.
 
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