seed-train Seed train caboose (at least from me)

Alright laserguy, gloves are coming off. While I appreciate you throwing in awesome seeds and "fixing" the box, the mere thought of you using what I wrote to add to your tangent is ridiculous. Theres one thing I am not is unethical. I could care less when I get this box because by the time I get it I'll have that many more seeds to add to it, and I won't be planting them this season anyways. However, chad received this back himself already and replenished it and put it in a bigger box at that time. Then sent it back out on its SECOND go around. If you were paying attention to this at all you would realize this.
Laserguy, my mention of things running smoothly was clearly written about the first go round and that this go round (its second) has seen a lot more derailments. But if you were to read closer and paid more attention, I also said that "while 3 days is a bit excessive, life does throw curve balls". Its my way of informing people NOT to jump on YOUR case when there could be issues that we don't know about.
So before you go lashing people maybe you should read things thouroghly.
Aaron
 
I'm glad to be done with this one!

If I were any of the people who were so upset at getting my free seeds more slowly than I would have chosen, or getting so upset about what some anonymous stranger (who doesn't even know me) said about me on the internet, then I would take a good loonnnng minute to be thankful that my life is good enough that I have the time and resources to worry about it. That is not a reality of many of us have, and I hope those of you do have it enjoy it thoroughly!
 
@Aaron: I was just finishing up a note to your better half, when I came back to the forum & noticed your latest post. I want to address your post first, to clear up any midunderstandings -

I did not intend to impune your ethics, quite the contrary! I even put a thank you and smiley face in there, to make it absolutely clear I was being friendly & sincere. I even complimented your civility in the note I have been drafting!

The reason I referenced your prior post was out of common courtesy. I was writing a response which included comments to the person who appeared to be currently acting as unofficial listmaster. Then I saw your post. I was concerned that if I made comments to your better half, but completely ignored your post directly above mine, that you might think I was deliberately ignoring you and take personal offense. So I felt I had to say something in reply to your post as well.

However, chad received this back himself already and replenished it and put it in a bigger box at that time. Then sent it back out on its SECOND go around.

I know that it is suppose to go back to Chad to start Round 2 later this year (more on that below). But I don't recall seeing anything about it going back to Chad here. Just to make sure, I just went thru every post, from the very first post on 11/27, when Chad started this swap and told us how it was supposed to work, up to the point where nmorris279 tried to justify adding his name twice by claiming he was joining a current Round 2, and I couldn't find any mention of the box going back to Chad.

It went about 5 stops, and then disappeared. But rather than going back to Chad, the member simply created a box with his own seeds, and then sent it on to the next person in Round 1.

As late as Jan., even writedaddy was still referring to this as the first trip! -

I agree that it should go to everyone on the list before it takes it second tour,but then there needs to be a stop on round one. the first trip started quit a while ago and we are still adding to the list.

I haven't had a chance to go thru the most recent posts yet. If it went back to Chad after nmorris279, that might alter your situation, but it still wouldn't help nmorris279's case any.

But the box I'm seeing shows no signs of that happening either - it is the smallest size priority mail box, and doesn't appear to contain any seeds from Chad at all. :think:

There is also a reply to your better half below that I wrote before I saw your latest post, as well as a note I am sending which contains a solution to your specific situation.

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@gnarlyeggs - per my agreement with teamcoal, we are giving Smiter_Q a few extra days to respond, before deciding which address the box will be sent to.

5 months...

You're lengthing the actual timeframes again. In any event, this exact same argument was made, and refuted, the first time this scam was attempted. It didn't hold water then, either. This rationalization for looping the train ignores the fact that it is also in direct violation of the way Chad set this train up.

I cannot believe that after the great debate and overwhelming resolution we already had on this issue, where the vast majority of members actually voted against their own self-interests in order to put a stop to this practice, that one or two members would actually be crazy enough to want to re-debate this long-settled issue a second time! :crazy:

The person who first attempted to instigate this inter-mingling and double-listing of names for his own personal benefit tried to make it as painful as possible to undo, by instead of simply correcting the mistake as he first agreed, or having the group as a whole decide, demanding the decision be up to the people who were benefiting from this double-dipping, and further demanding that each of them would have to individually, publicly announce that they were giving-up their rights to a Round 2 entirely, just to undo this (presuming that people would be far less likely to make a decision which negatively effected only themselves personally).

Instead, this group put the interests of future participants ahead of their own, and the members overwhelmingly agreed to give-up their rights to a Round 2 entirely if need be, in order to put a stop to this practice!

I was PROUD to call myself a member of THP that day.

I was therefore appalled and disgusted to see a member then SPIT on that great sacrifice, and barely a month after that overwhelming decision, sneakily try to pull that exact same scam again! :eek:

A Round 2 hasn't started yet - we're still doing Round 1.

nmorris279, your repeated assertions that there was a "Round 2" that was started and being participated in by other people, and you just jumped on behind them, is a fabrication, something you concocted at the time to justify your self-servingly adding your own name to the list TWICE -

If it's not too late, I would like to get in on round 2...

Here is what the list should look like with me added....

You posted that barely a month after the group overwhelmingly agreed to stop this double-dipping, and allowed the Train to continue on it's proper Round 1 course.

That occured the first week in January. I've been looking thru the posts since for any references whatsoever for this mythical Round 2 you claim people were busy signing-up for, and was active and up-and-running on Feb. 17, but I'm not finding any!

There are a number of people who have signed up

That is also a lie. There was only YOU, and one other member, whom YOU inappropriately added to the list TWICE.

Then came time to sign up for round two

I left in late Jan., I must have missed that. When was that again?

If there WAS a legitimate Round 2 that was started in my absence, then you should be able to answer a few questions about it -

* When did Round 1 End and Round 2 Begin?
* When were sign-ups announced?
* Who made the announcement?
* Who were the people in line ahead of you for Round 2?
* When did they/will they get the box a second time?
* Besides you & 1 other person, who are these other people you claim that are signed-up to see the box again?
* Where are their names listed twice on the list?
* There were a number of members who had stated a desire to participate in a Round 2 prior to you. If this is a legitimate Round 2, their names should be listed a second time before yours. Where are they???


That last question is critical, as that's the difference between a Legitimate Round 2, and a member altering the train's designated path for his own personal benefit.

If you thought you were acting legitimately, it also begs the question of why you decided to launch a "pre-emptive strike" against me personally (attacking my motives for what I had accomplished way back in early Jan.), before I had even become aware of what you had done?

Regarding your continued personal attacks and name-calling, if you think you can harass me into submission, I can assure you your continued personally offensive attacks are having the exact opposite effect on my resolve.

Why do you feel your arguments are so feeble, that they have to be constantly propped-up with personal ad hominem attacks and personal insults?

I just cannot wait until laserguy is a distant memory.

Your should carefully consider the wisdom of harassing out of the forum, the person who's currently in possession of the train. :crazy:

In any event, if your going to continue with all of your personal attacks, could you at least consolidate them into one post, rather than filling this thread with multiple posts attacking me personally, before I've even had a chance to reply? I don't have an unlimited amount of free time to keep responding to all of this nonsense.

By the way, if y'all get anything out of reading this "Thread from Hell" (Like Smiter_Q, I stopped coming to THP entirely for a while, just to get away from this sewage pit of a thread), I would strongly urge everybody here to read this -

Read

It explains an activity that thankfully a very few ppl have been frequently engaging in here, and is particularly relevant to this thread.

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@HH81Betterhalf - we're still on trip #1 - I'm on Round 1, and I just got the box! But given the misrepresentations that were made earlier in this thread that someone was claiming to have just hopped-on to an active Round 2, I can understand how you could have been conned into believing that a Round 2 had started when you weren't looking. But I believe I have come-up with a satisfactory solution to your specific situation. Ck your msgs. Thanks!

nmorris279 was right about one thing, however...

If you cannot follow the rules don't get on the train!!!!

------------------------------------------------------------

We need to remember how this train is suppose to work.

Chad came up with a very unique, "Pay It Forward" approach that is significantly different from most other seed swaps.

First off, rather than having a "Conductor" or official "list" in control of the order, he instructed that the Train's path was to be based on the posting order of people expressing interest in joining his Train!

Quite an innovative idea, actually, and a great way to help out a lot of people!

And contrary to some of the more selfish,closed-loop, multi-round seed swaps that are already out there, he also didn't specify a limited # of participants, or a cut-off date for joining, or multiple rounds, or short-term looping - quite the contrary, in fact! He specifically stated the objective of his train was to help out as many people as possible, to get his Train in the hands of as many growers as possible for this season.

He realized that by setting it up this way, as long as new people kept joining, his Train could conceivably just keep on going!

He did specify that if/when it did loop back around, it should loop back to him first, at which point he would then re-fill it with superhot seeds! (Probably not a bad idea at this point, given the 650+ superhot seeds he started this Train out with have all disappeared!)

To give you an idea of what kind of timeframe he was thinking about for Round 1, it sounded like he was talking about having it loop back to him around harvest time of 2012!

But given his explicitly stated goal for this Train of getting to as many different people as possible for this season, the earliest we could conceivably start a Round 2 would be after the end of the Spring planting season. NOT mid-February!

Prematurely looping or starting a Round 2 before then would be in direct violation of the explicitly stated goals of this Train.

The philosophy of this Train is the polar opposite of the other seed train going on right now.

The purpose of Chad's unique "Pay It Forward" Train was to help out as many new people as possible, NOT to loop it back around a second time for our own personal benefit!

This unique approach was set-up by Chad when he created this offer, and donated a boat-load of valuable superhot seeds to get it started, and was agreed to by all of us when we joined it. If someone did did not like this "posting order" train route or "as many people as possible in time for this season" idea, then they should not have joined this Train. But by doing so, they now have a mutual obligation (both ethically, and officially) to the other participants to abide by that.

Altering the Train's path for the personal benefit of a few, is a breach of that agreement.
 
I hope nothing comes along and gives you perspective on how silly of a thing this is to get worked up about.
 
WOW!! Laserguy get off you're high horse!! WHY do you still have the train?? Keep it moving and stop with the ridiculously long posts, my gosh it is just seeds!!

Who died and elected you as conductor??? And why do you think it is you're right to hold on to the train for so long to preform a "makeover". At this point I highly doubt the train will get new riders with all this nonsense going on. Get it out to the next in line already, if Chad wants to intervene then let him do it.

AND do you realize the original train Chad started was hijacked and Biscgolf was kind enough to put together a new box so the train could continue down the tracks??

RANT over, just put the box in the mail already and wipe you're hands clean of all this BS. No need for drama here, if everyone worked together we wouldn't have these issues.

Melissa
 
I will tell you this tho.... I was in on this train WAY back when, added seeds, sent it on, and it was running SO smooth. Then Laser guy came in with his books that take 3 weeks to read... Chill out, send it on... If you dont get a response from the next one in line, skip him.... EVERYONE here that check their email here, would understand if they were skipped because THEY didn't respond to an inbox.. Quit yer bitchin, pony up, ad send it on.

LG, word to the wise.... When my daughter puts on a TON of make-up, I have to tell her... "Less is more" and that applies to you as well...
 
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]"The last seeds of the season. US only please. Most varieties have at least 50 seeds. I will send them to the first poster, I will pick up the postage, you take what you need, add what you can if you can and pay the postage to the next poster in line. Sound fair? I would suggest when the package is on the way to you that you PM the next in line for their address so you can turn it around in the shortest time possible. Ideally this gets in the hands of as many growers as possible before the season starts. I would also suggest that you obtain a new envelope, or small flat rate box before you receive the package. This does not need to make its way back to me, but if it is still floating around next year I will refill it with what I can."[/background]

That is what was stated for the rules for this train. Receive the train, send it to the next person on the list. It seems to me like you are taking a post, and changing the meaning. He never says anything about users can only sign up once. Now you are complaining about there being no superhots. If you didn't create a scene and all those users didn't drop out of the second loop, I guarantee you there would still be tons of superhots in this box, because I know those users, and they are all very generous and have tons of seeds to spare.

Second, Explain to be how this thread wasn't started 5 months ago? Sorry I didn't calculate the exact time frame....It is 145 days from the start date to the end date, Or 4 months, 24 days. That is about 5 months is it not?

You are making all these posts about explicit rules for this thread and how the train is supposed to run. I challenge you to prove these rules with quotes.

You are not in charge here, and your interpretation of Chad's post does not mean that those are the rules.
 
I am officially done...... I have asked many times for us to just stop the madness and still it goes on. I simply will still update the list (if any new passengers don't run from this thread... new passengers are still welcome) and when it comes around to my house it'll be shipped out next day (if not a Sunday/holiday)

End of story from me....
 
Alright, enough is enough.

I'm still interested in this seed train, and I'd really like to see it another go around, but I really want to see this show on the road.

Here is what I propose. I am going to start a new thread with another train, and I will start it with my own collection. I'm not taking over this train, but rather getting another train on the tracks while this one is down for maintenance. Hopefully, if laserguy ever passes this train on, we will have multiple trains running. Kinda like two christmases in my opinion.

I will start another thread tonight. I would like the HH81's to be the first stop if they are interested since betterhalf has been so kind as to watch over this train. After that it is open to everyone.

I will post what I think are fair instructions in that thread that you must agree to in order to join.

Lets get a train back on the tracks.

CHUG A CHUG A CHOO CHOO...
 
Hot peppers and heads seem to go hand in hand.

Just put the box in the mail to the next person.

Its that simple... If someone wants to take a risk on 5 or 6 un named bags of seed, then let them go for it. good for them.

Either way, just put the box in the mail to the next person.

Thx.
 
I'm not even on this train, but I posted on it months ago so it keeps popping up in my content. Just so I understand...how is holding on to the seeds helping as many people as possible?

He specifically stated the objective of his train was to help out as many people as possible, to get his Train in the hands of as many growers as possible for this season.

I don't see "superhot" in the rules or title of the train either??? I personally would rather find some cool wild varieties than a bucket of Bhut and scorpion seeds...IMHO. I feel bad for all the folks after you laser. You're being incredibly selfish and inconsiderate. Quit thinking you need to teach everyone some sort of pepper ethics and etiquette course and put the box in the mail already.

Good luck everyone! I hope this works itself out...
Shane
 
If we don't hear from the next person on the list, or else from laserguy (soon =( )saying he mailed it, then laserguy is going on my poo...errr... fertilizer list.
 
Just pm'd laser guy to see whats was up. I dont have a whole lot of seeds but if I dont hear anything in a few days then I will just send what I have to the next person in line. Maybe we can salvage something from this train.
Rick.
 
If you guys decide to forget Laserguy and rebuild let me know. I'll send teamcole a few more seeds for him to throw in there, or directly to the person after teamcole. Either way...this has gotten out of hand and something needs to be done. I have maybe 200 manzano seeds to throw in and a few supers as well. I may be able to drum up a few folks willing to do the same. If anyone is interested in ornamentals I could throw in 3 different types of Thai Chili as well...

Good luck folks, for something that is supposed to be fun and free this thing has gotten way too painful for me to watch anymore!
Shane
 
Shane I will get a list together tonight of what I have and let you know then we will just send everything to the next in line which I think is bodeen and go from there.
Rick.
 
Sounds good...just need to check with whoever is conducting this thing and make sure they agree with this plan. I don't want to "hyjack" their thread after the seeds have been hyjacked. If they're onboard with it shoot me an address where I can send some seeds to help salvage this thing for you guys.
 
I understand what your saying I dont want to step on anyones toes. I will pm chad and see what he wants to do or if its even worth saving.
Thanks buddy.
Rick.
 
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