@Aaron: I was just finishing up a note to your better half, when I came back to the forum & noticed your latest post. I want to address your post first, to clear up any midunderstandings -
I did not intend to impune your ethics, quite the contrary! I even put a thank you and smiley face in there, to make it absolutely clear I was being friendly & sincere. I even complimented your civility in the note I have been drafting!
The reason I referenced your prior post was out of common courtesy. I was writing a response which included comments to the person who appeared to be currently acting as unofficial listmaster. Then I saw your post. I was concerned that if I made comments to your better half, but completely ignored your post directly above mine, that you might think I was deliberately ignoring you and take personal offense. So I felt I had to say something in reply to your post as well.
However, chad received this back himself already and replenished it and put it in a bigger box at that time. Then sent it back out on its SECOND go around.
I know that it is suppose to go back to Chad to start Round 2 later
this year (more on that below). But I don't recall seeing anything about it going back to Chad here. Just to make sure, I just went thru every post, from the very first post on 11/27, when Chad started this swap and told us how it was supposed to work, up to the point where nmorris279 tried to justify adding his name twice by claiming he was joining a current Round 2, and I couldn't find any mention of the box going back to Chad.
It went about 5 stops, and then disappeared. But rather than going back to Chad, the member simply created a box with his own seeds, and then sent it on to the next person in Round 1.
As late as Jan., even
writedaddy was still referring to this as the first trip! -
I agree that it should go to everyone on the list before it takes it second tour,but then there needs to be a stop on round one. the first trip started quit a while ago and we are still adding to the list.
I haven't had a chance to go thru the most recent posts yet. If it went back to Chad after nmorris279, that might alter your situation, but it still wouldn't help nmorris279's case any.
But the box I'm seeing shows no signs of that happening either - it is the smallest size priority mail box, and doesn't appear to contain any seeds from Chad at all.
There is also a reply to your better half below that I wrote before I saw your latest post, as well as a note I am sending which contains a solution to your specific situation.
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@gnarlyeggs - per my agreement with teamcoal, we are giving Smiter_Q a few extra days to respond, before deciding which address the box will be sent to.
You're lengthing the actual timeframes again. In any event, this exact same argument was made,
and refuted, the first time this scam was attempted. It didn't hold water then, either. This rationalization for looping the train ignores the fact that it is also in direct violation of the way Chad set this train up.
I cannot believe that after the great debate and overwhelming resolution we already had on this issue, where the vast majority of members actually voted against their own self-interests in order to put a stop to this practice, that one or two members would actually be crazy enough to want to re-debate this long-settled issue a second time!
The person who first attempted to instigate this inter-mingling and double-listing of names for his own personal benefit tried to make it as painful as possible to undo, by instead of simply correcting the mistake as he first agreed, or having the group as a whole decide, demanding the decision be up to the people who were benefiting from this double-dipping, and further demanding that each of them would have to individually, publicly announce that they were giving-up their rights to a Round 2
entirely, just to undo this (presuming that people would be far less likely to make a decision which negatively effected only themselves personally).
Instead, this group put the interests of future participants ahead of their own, and the members overwhelmingly agreed to give-up their rights to a Round 2 entirely if need be, in order to put a stop to this practice!
I was
PROUD to call myself a member of THP that day.
I was therefore appalled and disgusted to see a member then
SPIT on that great sacrifice, and barely a month after that overwhelming decision, sneakily try to pull that
exact same scam again!
A Round 2 hasn't started yet - we're still doing Round 1.
nmorris279, your repeated assertions that there was a "Round 2" that was started and being participated in by other people, and you just jumped on behind them, is a fabrication, something you concocted at the time to justify your self-servingly adding your own name to the list
TWICE -
If it's not too late, I would like to get in on round 2...
Here is what the list should look like with me added....
You posted that barely a month after the group overwhelmingly agreed to stop this double-dipping, and allowed the Train to continue on it's proper Round 1 course.
That occured the first week in January. I've been looking thru the posts since for any references whatsoever for this mythical Round 2 you claim people were busy signing-up for, and was active and up-and-running on Feb. 17, but I'm not finding any!
There are a number of people who have signed up
That is also a lie. There was only
YOU, and one other member, whom
YOU inappropriately added to the list
TWICE.
Then came time to sign up for round two
I left in late Jan., I must have missed that. When was that again?
If there
WAS a legitimate Round 2 that was started in my absence, then you should be able to answer a few questions about it -
* When did Round 1 End and Round 2 Begin?
* When were sign-ups announced?
* Who made the announcement?
* Who were the people in line ahead of you for Round 2?
* When did they/will they get the box a second time?
* Besides you & 1 other person, who are these other people you claim that are signed-up to see the box again?
* Where are their names listed twice on the list?
* There were a number of members who had stated a desire to participate in a Round 2 prior to you. If this is a legitimate Round 2, their names should be listed a second time before yours. Where are they???
That last question is critical, as that's the difference between a
Legitimate Round 2, and a member altering the train's designated path for his own personal benefit.
If you thought you were acting legitimately, it also begs the question of why you decided to launch a "pre-emptive strike" against me personally (attacking my motives for what I had accomplished way back in early Jan.), before I had even become aware of what you had done?
Regarding your continued personal attacks and name-calling, if you think you can harass me into submission, I can assure you your continued personally offensive attacks are having the
exact opposite effect on my resolve.
Why do you feel your arguments are so feeble, that they have to be constantly propped-up with personal ad hominem attacks and personal insults?
I just cannot wait until laserguy is a distant memory.
Your should carefully consider the wisdom of harassing out of the forum, the person who's currently in possession of the train.
In any event, if your going to continue with all of your personal attacks, could you at least consolidate them into one post, rather than filling this thread with multiple posts attacking me personally, before I've even had a chance to reply? I don't have an unlimited amount of free time to keep responding to all of this nonsense.
By the way, if y'all get anything out of reading this "Thread from Hell" (Like Smiter_Q, I stopped coming to THP entirely for a while, just to get away from this sewage pit of a thread), I would
strongly urge everybody here to read this -
Read
It explains an activity that thankfully a very few ppl have been frequently engaging in here, and is particularly relevant to this thread.
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@HH81Betterhalf - we're still on trip #1 - I'm on Round 1, and I just got the box! But given the misrepresentations that were made earlier in this thread that someone was claiming to have just hopped-on to an active Round 2, I can understand how you could have been conned into believing that a Round 2 had started when you weren't looking. But I believe I have come-up with a satisfactory solution to your specific situation. Ck your msgs. Thanks!
nmorris279 was right about one thing, however...
If you cannot follow the rules don't get on the train!!!!
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We need to remember how this train is suppose to work.
Chad came up with a very unique, "Pay It Forward" approach that is significantly different from most other seed swaps.
First off, rather than having a "Conductor" or official "list" in control of the order, he instructed that the Train's path was to be based on the posting order of people expressing interest in joining his Train!
Quite an innovative idea, actually, and a great way to help out a lot of people!
And contrary to some of the more selfish,closed-loop, multi-round seed swaps that are already out there, he also didn't specify a limited # of participants, or a cut-off date for joining, or multiple rounds, or short-term looping - quite the contrary, in fact! He specifically stated the objective of his train was to help out
as many people as possible, to get his Train in the hands of
as many growers as possible for this season.
He realized that by setting it up this way, as long as new people kept joining, his Train could conceivably just keep on going!
He did specify that if/when it did loop back around, it should loop back to him
first, at which point he would then re-fill it with superhot seeds! (Probably not a bad idea at this point, given the 650+ superhot seeds he started this Train out with have all disappeared!)
To give you an idea of what kind of timeframe he was thinking about for Round 1, it sounded like he was talking about having it loop back to him around harvest time of 2012!
But given his explicitly stated goal for this Train of getting to as many different people as possible for this season, the earliest we could conceivably start a Round 2 would be after the end of the Spring planting season.
NOT mid-February!
Prematurely looping or starting a Round 2 before then would be in direct violation of the explicitly stated goals of this Train.
The philosophy of this Train is the
polar opposite of the other seed train going on right now.
The purpose of Chad's unique "Pay It Forward" Train was to help out as many new people as possible,
NOT to loop it back around a second time for our own personal benefit!
This unique approach was set-up by Chad when he created this offer, and donated a
boat-load of valuable superhot seeds to get it started, and was agreed to by all of us when we joined it. If someone did did not like this "posting order" train route or "as many people as possible in time for this season" idea,
then they should not have joined this Train. But by doing so, they now have a mutual obligation (both ethically, and officially) to the other participants to abide by that.
Altering the Train's path for the personal benefit of a few, is a breach of that agreement.
