chinense the debate about the reaper and primo

rebman2005

rebman2005

not trying to stir the pot (i was unaware the reaper had a controversy behind it)  i watched a video by ted barrus, and he mentioned that many ppl in the chili head community think the reaper is a primo?  i did a little bit of research and could only find a few articles, one in particular pointing out contradictory statements from ed curry about how he created the reaper... whats the deal here? 
 
D3monic said:
We will never truely know, shu testing is hardly evidence they are the same. But then ED is very cryptic and suspicious on the like and after the whole carbonero thing on Facebook i'm more inclined to believe he is dubious
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oh ok... i wasnt going to post this thread until i seen your reply on another post about the reaper saying "isnt the reaper a primo"  then the famous "troll" meme... i got a kick out of that 
 
Just my opinion but I think ED used the primo in the creation of the reaper but as D3 said we will never truly know.
I have seen venders & former venders get pretty nasty in there actions toward other venders & sometimes customers.
In my opinion that is just bad business .
Oh D3 love your profile pic Ajdrew needs to get one of an duck
 
The long and short of it is that Ed says it's not, mr primo says it is. Both men are pretty upstanding. Hopefully there is a third option that doesn't suck.

From what I've seen primo is smaller and slightly milder. reaper is a little bigger and hotter. Other than that they look the same. Reaper has a slightly different flavor to my pallet as well.

Finally Ted Barry's is an entertainer not a hobbyist nor does he really work in the industry. I don't even think he really grows any peppers himself. He sort of repeats what he is told and acts the part of an idiot to sell adds on YouTube or to feed his need for attention. If you want real information thp is the place to get it; in the same way you wouldn't go to Jenifer Lawrence for advice on chess strategy - Ted may talk about peppers, but he doesn't know about peppers beyond (maybe) what they taste like.
 
I´ve been growing Primo (seeds from Primo) and Reaper (seeds from Puckerbutt) side by side in 2013
 
Absolutely no difference...plants look the same...pods have the same size, shape and heat.
 
The only difference I observed was that the Reaper seeds were contaminated with about 25% of Not True To Type hybrids (smooth surface, long shape, no stingers and less heat)
 
Peter
 
Unless we are talking the latest title holder, I do not get all the claims of people renaming peppers and calling them their own.  Here is why:

I sell seed 20 for $5.00.  Big time is more like 10 for $5.00.  The money in isolation followed by the labor of harvesting, drying, cleaning, packaging, shipping... it really does not seem like shit tons of money.  If my seed business were to expand wildly, then we would add labor cost to the mix.  Again, it does not seem like shit tons of money.

Again, I can understand if it is the latest title holder.  With that, you get free advertising.  But a year later and unless you are PVPA everyone is growing the thing and selling the seeds.  Maybe I am missing something.  Seems to me other than the innate rewards of creating something new, the main thing a non PVPA pepper gives a person is bragging rights.  Go stealing peppers and renaming them, even those bragging rights go limp.



 
 
ajdrew said:
Unless we are talking the latest title holder, I do not get all the claims of people renaming peppers and calling them their own.  Here is why:

I sell seed 20 for $5.00.  Big time is more like 10 for $5.00.  The money in isolation followed by the labor of harvesting, drying, cleaning, packaging, shipping... it really does not seem like shit tons of money.  If my seed business were to expand wildly, then we would add labor cost to the mix.  Again, it does not seem like shit tons of money.

Again, I can understand if it is the latest title holder.  With that, you get free advertising.  But a year later and unless you are PVPA everyone is growing the thing and selling the seeds.  Maybe I am missing something.  Seems to me other than the innate rewards of creating something new, the main thing a non PVPA pepper gives a person is bragging rights.  Go stealing peppers and renaming them, even those bragging rights go limp.
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Your point about the poor economics sounds about right.  I think the main motivator is emotion and a strong ego.
And, in my experience, these sorts of people do not generally play well with others. 
Thus the constant Drama...
 
Geonerd said:
 
Your point about the poor economics sounds about right.  I think the main motivator is emotion and a strong ego.
And, in my experience, these sorts of people do not generally play well with others. 
Thus the constant Drama...
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Ego seems like a really dumb motivation because even if the rest of the world thinks you created the thing, you know you didn't create the thing.  I goof around with crossing here and there, but nothing special yet.  Have had some weird things show themselves from seed stock soured from odd places. 

Had some Naga Vipers go weird, tried and tried to grow them out into something stable.  Gave up this year.  Now goofing with some bubble gum that came out red (as they should) but also white and yellow.  Figure the source of the seed had an unknown cross pollination.  Decided what the hell, put them up for sale but let people know it just showed itself and it is probably not stable.

I did say if you wanna put my initials on them when talking about them I would think that was cool, so I guess I get ego a bit.  But my thing is more like: Look, this guy A.J. won a scratch off lottery ticket. 

 
 
Inedible said:
The name Carolina Reaper sounds better than Primo. If they really are the same, why don't we just call them all Reapers instead of Primo?
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Ego. If indeed they are the same pepper -- and that's possible. Then the name change would (rightly) be offensive to primo. Think about it like this. You meet this girl, fall in love, marry, have a baby. Things go south, you get a divorce and she remarried this other guy Richard. How would you feel if Richard changed your little babies name from one thing to another?
 
Inedible said:
The name Carolina Reaper sounds better than Primo. If they really are the same, why don't we just call them all Reapers instead of Primo?
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Primo is the nick name of the horticulturist who created the thing.  He gave us the thing freely, no real effort at marketing.  I think he deserves recognition.  I dont think bragging rights is a bad thing.
 
jsschrstrcks said:
Ego. If indeed they are the same pepper -- and that's possible. Then the name change would (rightly) be offensive to primo. Think about it like this. You meet this girl, fall in love, marry, have a baby. Things go south, you get a divorce and she remarried this other guy Richard. How would you feel if Richard changed your little babies name from one thing to another?
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Oh damn that was phrased well.
 
I was joking. I just thought that it would be fun to be the first to suggest that if the Primo and the Reaper are the same, that maybe the Primo should change its name.
 
As a nickname, Primo is very generic. It is Spanish for cousin.
 
Maybe it would be different if I had children.
 
This is what I don't get so excuse my ignorance on the subject,
 
I have seen peppers I have grown that have crossed with other pepper types. For instance I have one growing that almost perfectly resembles the apocalypse red. Now if I stabilized it and it came from different peppers than the apocalypse, even if it looked very similar would it not be a different pepper genetically? wouldn't this give me the right to rename it? 
 
I'm not defending any side of this drama, just curious about why all the hate on both sides without any proof and only speculation?
 
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