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The next time you think you need Cal/Mag...
- Thread starter Proud Marine Dad
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Different strokes for different folks PMD. Not everyone can or will jump on the bandwagon. Preachy posts tend to turn people off, myself included. There is some great science behind the living soil. I think it's awesome. If I were around, and had the time, I'd be all over a soil mix and organics.
If you don't see how the OP reads like an ad perhaps you should look at some of bakers posts and try to avoid sounding like that. I write ads, by the by. You named companies, a product, installed a sense of urgency, bad-mouthed the competition, and rounded things out with a call to action. Advertising 101.
As it stands, for myself, I am only able to observe my plants twice a week. So I HAVE to water on those days. For me, a soil-less bark mix worked out well because I can water heavily even when it just rained or rain is in the forecast. I watered heavily like an hour before a thunderstorm a few days ago to get some nutes in. This means I will be using liquid ferts. A slow-release fert. (Both MG Oh no!) And soon a cal-mag product.
I originally wanted to go the organic way, by the way, but found that for my personal needs it wasn't ideal. When I looked into a few other ways to skin the cat I found that other people were having great results with other methods, so, having many options, I chose the one that would best suit my lifestyle,wallet, and attention constraints (a 5-1-1 mix). Guess what - it's working out wonderfully and I cannot wait to add some cal-mag to the mix to assist with fruiting which is soon to come.
If you don't see how the OP reads like an ad perhaps you should look at some of bakers posts and try to avoid sounding like that. I write ads, by the by. You named companies, a product, installed a sense of urgency, bad-mouthed the competition, and rounded things out with a call to action. Advertising 101.
As it stands, for myself, I am only able to observe my plants twice a week. So I HAVE to water on those days. For me, a soil-less bark mix worked out well because I can water heavily even when it just rained or rain is in the forecast. I watered heavily like an hour before a thunderstorm a few days ago to get some nutes in. This means I will be using liquid ferts. A slow-release fert. (Both MG Oh no!) And soon a cal-mag product.
I originally wanted to go the organic way, by the way, but found that for my personal needs it wasn't ideal. When I looked into a few other ways to skin the cat I found that other people were having great results with other methods, so, having many options, I chose the one that would best suit my lifestyle,wallet, and attention constraints (a 5-1-1 mix). Guess what - it's working out wonderfully and I cannot wait to add some cal-mag to the mix to assist with fruiting which is soon to come.
No argument there.
For flavor and nutrition, you can't beat it.
Some are lucky to live somewhere the soil isn't already depleted, and perfect for growing.
Others live where the minerals are gone, organic matter is unusable due to decades of harsh chemical farming, or not suitable to what we want to grow.
These places---to go "organic" requires hauling in proper substrate, rock dust from suitable mineralized rock, (semi organic if you don't want to wait a few decades for the substrate to naturally break down) and clean composted organic matter.
I do have a 5x10 bed outside I have been working on for a few years--not raised, but in the natural ground--that is barely acceptable for peppers.
The 4 I have inside in DWC's and controlled conditions all came out of the same starting pots and are 3 to 4 times larger than the ones "in nature".
Im going to jump in later after I enjoy my fafather's day. I will say it is highly over rated, but does have a place. Just like mericle slow.
True. I am talking about growing in containers on a smaller scale as most of us do on here. Just for clarification.Gotrox said:
I think the tendency towards Cal-Mag with inorganic grows comes down to incorrect ratios of nutrients, usually compounded in the soil by dolomite, and purposely leaving out nutrients to upsell another additive.
There are so many ways to skin a cat, it's easy to get caught up in your own method. In the end, it just matters that you got it off in one piece, so as to make yourself a spiffy hat.
The preachy elitism common with organic growers is self defeating and makes it more daunting to someone new looking to go organic. Look at the organic forum on IC, there's a wealth of information from the early golden years but few new posts. It's dead now, the other forums are full of asshat clowns and most of the old gurus keep to themselves, paragons of knowledge walled up in their own little castles.
There are so many ways to skin a cat, it's easy to get caught up in your own method. In the end, it just matters that you got it off in one piece, so as to make yourself a spiffy hat.
The preachy elitism common with organic growers is self defeating and makes it more daunting to someone new looking to go organic. Look at the organic forum on IC, there's a wealth of information from the early golden years but few new posts. It's dead now, the other forums are full of asshat clowns and most of the old gurus keep to themselves, paragons of knowledge walled up in their own little castles.
There's still plenty of good organic discussion on GC Miguelovic. Many members there have libraries saved of posts by Coot (LD) and good info continues to be shared there by several others.miguelovic said:
No problem with organic.
My outside plants are, and my potted plants are----until rootbound.
Then, due to space constraints, they are "hydro-in-dirt".
My miniature--"semi-bonchi's" will always be nute dependant, as a miniature version suitable for growing on a window sill, -stunted, with little peppers, but healthy- is my goal for the project.
My outside plants are, and my potted plants are----until rootbound.
Then, due to space constraints, they are "hydro-in-dirt".
My miniature--"semi-bonchi's" will always be nute dependant, as a miniature version suitable for growing on a window sill, -stunted, with little peppers, but healthy- is my goal for the project.
Just wondering how many soil amendments you use, and how much $$$ was spent on them. You only have to water now, but it's not like you didn't have to spend $$ up front to get your soil where you wanted it to be. I know you never claimed to not spend $$ on your soil, but a new grower could get that false impression when you criticize others for spending $$.Proud Marine Dad said:I just posted a photo on my blog I took yesterday.Why? Because we use real soil science and not guessing what deficiency a plant may have? I have grown both ways and organic with a living soil is superior in every way but it falls on deaf ears too often. If I come across harsh I apologize but until you grow this way you dont know what you are missing. Go ahead and spend your money on cal-mag and the other stuff and I will continue to just water with no worries.
I rarely reply to these threads and I am far from an expert grower. What I will say is based on the grow of the last 4 weeks, the container plants are inferior to my inground and square foot garden plants. Based on your recent pictures and ones from May, I'd say your container plants are following the same path as mine. They look OK but are in now way close the the growth of the others. As for CalMag or Kelp, to each their own, I let my worms do their work and try to amend soil in the best and most organic ways possible.
As with every approach, it is what rides between the lines that matters. We all do what works for us and I cannot say there is a single right way. Many of my volunteer plants out produce plants I started from seed and they are growing in the EXACT same soil. The volunteers starts 4 months later, go figure.
As with every approach, it is what rides between the lines that matters. We all do what works for us and I cannot say there is a single right way. Many of my volunteer plants out produce plants I started from seed and they are growing in the EXACT same soil. The volunteers starts 4 months later, go figure.
Have you looked into starting a worm farm?
We have somewhat mild weather here Joyner so I am not going to have the explosive growth that someone like Pepper Guru has in GA. It takes time for the soil to get where it needs to be as well. I wish I could have mixed it several months back so that the nutrients could cycle better but it will come around. My canna is incredible and its only eight weeks old.JoynersHotPeppers said:
I used my own compost and ewc along with some other ewc I bought as I didnt have enough for the amount of soil I mixed, sphagnum peat moss, 5/16" red lava rock, Kelp meal, Espoma Tomato Tone, Alfalfa meal, Neem cake, Crab meal, and Gaia Green Glacial rock dust. I spent a couple of hundred dollars on everything but I can reuse the soil over and over with only slight amending so next year I won't have to spend much. I have 24 pepper plants as well as five canna plants in large 17 gallon containers and four tomato plants so I mixed about 34 cubic feet of soil.Roguejim said:
You guys and your arguments. Just do what works for you.
My plants were transplanted from coir/castings mix into $8/40L "even farmers use this 100% organic container soil" (that's a direct translation of the label) comprised of "Akadama small grained red dirt/soil", bark compost, leaf mold, kanuma soil (similar to Akadama but acidic), coco peat, vermiculite, zeolite (which is incidentally organic), bat guano, and slow release fertilizer---in this order. I made the decision to use this b/c it was the best bang for buck for my situation. I can't get individual components as cheap or even free as you guys can in the US, nor do I have the space to make a lot of compost or run a worm farm---haven't even found a place that actually SELLS composting worms.
When watering I alternate between fermented kelp extract (I live in the land of kelp and seaweed so why the hell not) a generic 3-3-2 organic liquid fertilizer for vegetables once a week, and bi-weekly add to said feeding with a soil drench of compost tea. The rest of my watering is just plain old water out of the outdoor tap, or rain since we are in the rainy season at the moment. About once a month I go out and do a very light foliar spray of epsom salt and liquid calcium.
My plants are doing great.
EDIT: I forgot to add that when transplanting, I did add a 1/2 - 1 tsp of azomite (no other rock dust available in Japan), and a bit of mykos/azos from this company to each transplant hole. I don't have any plants that were planted without these so have nothing to compare to, but they may or may not have made a difference.
And this is probably the best specimen.
My plants were transplanted from coir/castings mix into $8/40L "even farmers use this 100% organic container soil" (that's a direct translation of the label) comprised of "Akadama small grained red dirt/soil", bark compost, leaf mold, kanuma soil (similar to Akadama but acidic), coco peat, vermiculite, zeolite (which is incidentally organic), bat guano, and slow release fertilizer---in this order. I made the decision to use this b/c it was the best bang for buck for my situation. I can't get individual components as cheap or even free as you guys can in the US, nor do I have the space to make a lot of compost or run a worm farm---haven't even found a place that actually SELLS composting worms.
When watering I alternate between fermented kelp extract (I live in the land of kelp and seaweed so why the hell not) a generic 3-3-2 organic liquid fertilizer for vegetables once a week, and bi-weekly add to said feeding with a soil drench of compost tea. The rest of my watering is just plain old water out of the outdoor tap, or rain since we are in the rainy season at the moment. About once a month I go out and do a very light foliar spray of epsom salt and liquid calcium.
My plants are doing great.
EDIT: I forgot to add that when transplanting, I did add a 1/2 - 1 tsp of azomite (no other rock dust available in Japan), and a bit of mykos/azos from this company to each transplant hole. I don't have any plants that were planted without these so have nothing to compare to, but they may or may not have made a difference.
And this is probably the best specimen.
Spicy Mushroom said:
I have one started with a handful of babies (more like a thimble-full) I rooted out of a small sample of castings (about two cups). They are happy, and hopefully in a few years when I have plots and beds etc they will be a force to reckon with. Along with heaps of leaf mold etc etc.
Amending my 80ish pots with store or farm bought ewc would have cost me a fortune. Not to mention buying all the other amendments.
Everyone's situation is different.
Proud Marine Dad said:
The kelp study that I mentioned in regards to uranium I read at a doctors office I work at, so I cannot find a link to it on the internet.
On fish and other seafood you can follow this link. This page has many studies on it.
http://www.detoxmetals.com/pages/Articles-on-Toxicity.html#Fish
That is only the surface, as many studies have been done around the world that show the worlds oceans including the Atlantic is polluted, and full of heavy metals. I don't mind linking a few, but I don't have the time to prove everything. Many studies I have access to because of what I do for a living. I work for a MD who has been treating people naturally for more than thirty years, and thus I read many of her newsletters which contain the latest studies. If you research it deeply, you will come to the same conclusions. In regards to the company you mentioned, i will take a look at them, as I never said all kelp was contaminated. Maine Coast sea vegetables is one that is regularly tested for toxic elements, and found to be low in these. Its just that most of it, like the fish emulsion is contaminated. Either way its your choice to use it or not. The plants will grow well with it, even if it is toxic. Hopefully your source is fine.
Interesting enough I use a special form of seaweed to detoxify heavy metals from the body, and recently the company that produced it, discontinued it because the source they were using for many years became contaminated, and they could not find another source that they tested to be pure.
With anything from the ocean its use at your own risk these days. Certainly one should make sure whatever they use is safe, and tested regularly.
lul keep in mind... the entire ocean is hopelessly "contaminated" with uranium.
you know there is like... billions of lbs of uranium dioxide in solution in the worlds sea water?(oh noes and it has a half life of billions of years too!) radium too... cobalt etc. lots of radioactivity in the ocean. you will not find a single gram of sea water that is without some form of radioactive "contamination".
air too.... you know how much radioactive oxygen is in the atmosphere? billions and billions and billions of lbs.
your granite counter top is likely substantially radioactive too, measurably so too.
you know there is like... billions of lbs of uranium dioxide in solution in the worlds sea water?(oh noes and it has a half life of billions of years too!) radium too... cobalt etc. lots of radioactivity in the ocean. you will not find a single gram of sea water that is without some form of radioactive "contamination".
air too.... you know how much radioactive oxygen is in the atmosphere? billions and billions and billions of lbs.
your granite counter top is likely substantially radioactive too, measurably so too.
Also bananas, don't forget bananas.
I jest, sorry I couldn't resist (seriously though, bananas).
You know here in Japan (I'm American by the way) sea weed and fish are daily staples, yet they also live very long healthy lives.
Take it for what it's worth, but the are so many things worse for you to kill your self with (like beer and tobacco). And on purpose too! Kelp and seaweed are at least beneficial despite the potential (like pretty much all things) negatives.
I jest, sorry I couldn't resist (seriously though, bananas).
You know here in Japan (I'm American by the way) sea weed and fish are daily staples, yet they also live very long healthy lives.
Take it for what it's worth, but the are so many things worse for you to kill your self with (like beer and tobacco). And on purpose too! Kelp and seaweed are at least beneficial despite the potential (like pretty much all things) negatives.