tutorial The Pest Guide

[CraftyFox]

I'm only going to reply to this once, to address what seems to be glaringly off.  Then, it's move on time....
 
 

You know, I couldn't agree more. I mean, most of what you are forming opinions on, and discussing, has little to do with what you appear to actually know or the heart of my disagreement with you. In fact, the more we go back and forth like this, the more I find myself wondering about your credibility across the board.. The implications are a little staggering when you consider the amount of activity you have had advising in this thread alone. 
 

 
It is much better to use a systemic solution for any plants that have pests like aphids, which tend to be "farmed". (ants)

I'm not going to repeat what I already prescribed as my method.. It's up there. It's not a new method for me, just a new application. In any major aphid control I've ever done professionally, it was step one in the solution process, if not the solution in it's entirety.. Depending on the treatment goal. Whereas systemics were always considered a last resort in all but one job I've held in the field, which dealt exclusively with applications to ornamental plants and landscapes. I can talk for hours about integrated pest management.. I have spoken for hours on it. I've trained sales people and technicians on it, and held multiple applicator certificates/lisc over my career.. Sat thru many Extension and Industry seminars.. etc. I still don't consider myself an expert, learn new things every day.. probably forget even more.. Application. Surely none of that means anything regarding my credibility, because I'm not peer reviewed??  
Not that I can't get peer reviewed.. Here's the University of California State IPM Program page on aphid management, which just happened to be the first I came across in my google search of peer reviewed.
http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7404.html

Well now, looks like they are as rabid crazy as me.. Can you show me your supporting peer reviewed document? 

 

[solid7]

And yet, for all that, you still didn't specifically mention a single systemic pesticide.

So there is really zero discussion.

And I'm sticking to my guns. Most people around here are not going to tolerate having aphids crawl all over their plants inside the house all winter long. End of story. The fact that you would even suggest such a thing puts you in such a distinct minority, that none of that garbage gets read anyway.

 

[CraftyFox]

And yet, for all that, you still didn't specifically mention a single systemic pesticide.

So there is really zero discussion.

And I'm sticking to my guns. Most people around here are not going to tolerate having aphids crawl all over their plants inside the house all winter long. End of story. The fact that you would even suggest such a thing puts you in such a distinct minority, that none of that garbage gets read anyway.

Where is the need for my mentioning any specifics about given methods of systemics, when you made the generalization about them being the "best" approach? If anyone needs to offer up a product name, as an exception to what is generally accepted scientific fact.. It's you. What's your stance on Brawndo?   
Whereas your "truth" is only true in certain instances or cases, usually not with aphids.. My truth doesn't change, and remains a fact. About that there really is zero to discuss.
The one systemic that was mentioned by name, you had zero to say about..    

Whether I keep aphids, ants, or anything else in my house, has nothing to do with the truth of what I've said..  I know I would certainly put a lot more stock in what someone who kept them had to say about them, than someone who isn't interested in understanding them. I have experience with rearing insects as well as other creatures, in vitro.. Do you? Where was it I suggested anyone else "allow aphids to crawl all around their plants" ?

You talk about my interests as if they were some disease.. Do you realize you are also talking about people who develop the very chemicals you are so eager to support? They would make up the majority of this minority group you wish to ridicule. There's a lot of people on this site and everywhere in society that regularly consume poison.. That doesn't make it the best thing to do, and that's not why they are doing it..   

There's a great difference between what I said about my projects and your conclusions, which seem more than a little bias and high-strung. I'm still waiting on the link with the peer reviewed data supporting your claims of systemic superiority and harmlessness..   
But I won't hold my breath. 

 

[The_NorthEast_ChileMan]

_

 
Because of the wait I bought a large!

_

 

[Edmick]

I don't see a need to intervene here formally but let's just make sure we keep this conversation relevant, respectful and intelligent guys and gals.

 

[solid7]

I don't see a need to intervene here formally but let's just make sure we keep this conversation relevant, respectful and intelligent guys and gals.

 
That would be a great idea. 
 
If we could just get past recreational aphid farming in the "pest guide" sticky thread, and evolve past developing combative theses, based upon a simple request to clarify how one kills the bad bugs with soap spray, but spares the rest.  Or even an explanation of how the very mention of the word "systemic" invokes scenes of of chaos, annihilation, and the death of Gaia. (there has been so much furor over a very abstract conversation - no justification over what should have been a point of entry to a discussion, not the final word)
 
Treating the topic less like a soap box, or a peanut gallery might be a good way to salvage some semblance of "intelligent" and/or "respectful" discussion.  And to that end, it would be very helpful for me, if someone could explain - in a way that didn't involve the overuse of emojis, or juvenile gifs, intended to troll bait and incite a flame fest - just how it's useful for someone with a pest problem on an overwinter, to do all of the things that we tend to tell people not to do. (like letting the pests live - seems a tad counterintuitive)

 

[CraftyFox]

 
That would be a great idea. 
 
If we could just get past recreational aphid farming in the "pest guide" sticky thread, and evolve past developing combative theses, based upon a simple request to clarify how one kills the bad bugs with soap spray, but spares the rest.  Or even an explanation of how the very mention of the word "systemic" invokes scenes of of chaos, annihilation, and the death of Gaia. (there has been so much furor over a very abstract conversation - no justification over what should have been a point of entry to a discussion, not the final word)
 
Treating the topic less like a soap box, or a peanut gallery might be a good way to salvage some semblance of "intelligent" and/or "respectful" discussion.  And to that end, it would be very helpful for me, if someone could explain - in a way that didn't involve the overuse of emojis, or juvenile gifs, intended to troll bait and incite a flame fest - just how it's useful for someone with a pest problem on an overwinter, to do all of the things that we tend to tell people not to do. (like letting the pests live - seems a tad counterintuitive)

I'm really not sure where your comprehension struggle lies.. I had assumed English to be your first language. I think I covered the essence of everything you claim to be confused about previously, in the "garbage", of which "none" will be read.. Something like that. 
 
 

And yet, for all that, you still didn't specifically mention a single systemic pesticide.

So there is really zero discussion.

And I'm sticking to my guns. Most people around here are not going to tolerate having aphids crawl all over their plants inside the house all winter long. End of story. The fact that you would even suggest such a thing puts you in such a distinct minority, that none of that garbage gets read anyway.

And, I'm really getting confused as to what you are trying to discuss/argue, because it seems to be really circular and I'd like to try and boil it down here, to the where I thought we were at.. In coming to an understanding. That was my goal, I'm becoming lost as to yours. 
To summarize (which means not verbatim):

Stettoman said "Does anyone know about X product." "I'm still waiting on it to get here." "These aphids are too much for me right now." "I'm going to kill my plants."

I said: " I don't know what your goal is, but my soap method works great for getting them under control." "The only hurdle I've had with complete control was buried basal growth."

You said: "Soap is DANGEROUS! " "Systemics are a better approach to aphids because soap is only effective in contact applications."

I said: "To say using systemics is better is a dangerous generalization because it is not always true.. Like, for instance, my specific case of trying to maintain beneficials in my grow." "Soap is absolutely safe and effective, given proper application." 

I think you said: " I don't agree, because systemics only have an effect on insects that eat the treated plant." You also made some other non-points related to how attractive indoor plants are to aphids, and other non-relative facts and opinions that had little to do, from a professional standpoint, with the (here comes a word I know you understand) context of the debate. 

Then the conversation started to diverge completely into other arguments that really were useless in having at this point because you were arguing things that were not directly relative to what I was trying to address, and you were dodging.. I did my best to juggle the other things around what I felt was relevant.:

I said: "Systemics absolutely impact non-target species"

You said: "Without specific examples of products, this isn't even a discussion." Like, as if, I was supposed to present your argument for you. 

I said: "Here is a verifiable source of reference that echoes my facts." offering this link.. http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7404.html
I said: "Where is your exception?"

You said: ??? 
I'm really not sure what the hell you are trying to say now, or where your real confusion is, but there seems to be a lot of it that defies logic. 

 

 

[solid7]

OK, there is clearly a lot of misunderstanding there, so let's try to condense it into something that could potentially reach concensus.
 
1) I have no problem with the use of soap.  Only the unqualified (as in, repeated) usage.  Because soap is generally high on the pH scale, and that can create a problem for OW situations, where the plant is just maintaining, not necessarily actively growing.  So yes, in that regard, soaps can be dangerous.  I don't assume that anyone is a "professional" anything in a general thread.  In such a visible thread, you cater to the lowest common denominator. (which would be a newbie with little to no knowledge - I believe details matter)  And detergents are a very bad choice, due to their sheer effectiveness in removing plant based oils and waxes, which can lead to bacterial or other, infections.  Especially in the presence of pests.  (aphids and whitefly are some of the worst carriers)  Soaps are a knock down.  But not necessarily the best long term strategy.  The article that you referenced didn't outline all of the issues to consider with the use of such.
 
2) Limonoids are an oft used systemic.  The efficacy of unextracted limonoids - i.e., Neem - while great for foliar application, as a systemic the effectiveness is debatable.  However, when extracted from Neem, they are not.  If you're smoking the by-product, maybe it's an issue.  Neem, on its own, is considered a food grade substance, unless you are an insect.  So that's my notable exception to making blanket statements about systemics.  I'm not talking about the stuff that Bayer puts on the shelf.  No, I certainly wouldn't use that.  But I have no issue with using the former.  Now, unless we're talking about non-mycelial fungi, I'm not sure what other non-target species is impacted by that systemic.  If it's not eating the plant, then... ?  The article you referenced mentions Imidacloprid, but because neither you or I specifically mentioned a product, it was definitely ambiguous.  And I'm not going to lie... I left it like that to prove the point. 
 
3) You keep saying that I introduced irrelevant topics.  But I don't see it that way.  Indoor growth is not the same as outdoor growth. (which is why I noted that we have to "harden off" plants)  Succulent growth is the most attractive to any sucking pest, and that is the way indoor plants produce.  It's also a vulnerability for soaps and oils - which is why you are instructed to test a portion of your plant before wholesale spraying, when it comes to the use of these products.  So, putting the 2 things together, one has to be cautious in how they handle the situation.  And I was merely bringing attention to this, because I've definitely sent a few young plants to their early demise.  
 
Your link isn't showing something that isn't known - but there isn't a single reference in the document to growing indoors on an overwinter.  It's a bit different ecology than growing outdoors, or even in a greenhouse.  Here where I grow, I don't get a choice, but to practice IPM.  If not, I'm overrun 2 months into my new season, by the unholy trio of aphid, whitefly, and broad mite.  It's not that I actually disagree with you, in principle, even.  Just that I think OW plants are delicate, and nowhere near as straightforward as planting out.
 
Finally, the "garbage" that I referred to, wasn't your content - that was actually quite useful.  It was the rant and rabbit hole approach that you employed in attempting to brute force the win.  I stepped away for a day, because some members have been known to drink while posting, and I don't know you personally, so...

 

[CraftyFox]

While I'm sure it could be very entertaining to discuss who was more off on a rant in the rabbit's hole, I'm not here for pissing matches.. My original post had less to do with swaying someone from employing a method than it had to do with expanding that person's toolbox to fill what was an obvious need. At no time did I say not to use the systemic in his dominion of influence.. Nor did I say there was never a time or case for them. It's all up there, unedited. 

I had no concern with your warning about soap.. That was my oversight. I certainly could outline my whole method for achieving complete control. I have yet to kill any of my plants using soap. My recommendation was based on an experience with an indoor grow using fairly tender plants.. I made it clear I didn't know what his parameters were and only expressed what worked for me.. There are rarely identical circumstances in applications outside of the lab, and only with effort within. 

And no, you are not going to start off an argument with me by challenging my facts with an attempt to assert an OPINION that is a DANGEROUS GENERALIZATION, and get away with it. You aren't going to sit here and try to imply that my posts seem intoxicated, when you are the one with no apparent grasp on what's real. You are not going to gaslight and otherwise use colorful adjectives, false claims, and other diversionary tactics to dismiss facts with subjective bias and try to imply these were my tactics. Any over-explanation by me was in an attempt to avoid confusion and achieve a basic understanding with someone who was and still remains, way off base (And also as a courtesy warning to someone who was beginning to look like a Industrial Troll, that I also am from the bowels of the Industry). My statements were made up of facts based on data and experience, most of which isn't even subjective.. Whereas most of the things you either imply or try to pass as fact is actually conditional (sometimes true) or false entirely, like your initial garbage post.. Very little of what you said helped to arrive at the truth or understand it, it either attempted to erode it or divert focus away from it. And I guess, since you persist doing so, on one level or another I could see where it would be easy to imply that you are a pest and all of this becomes relevant on the same deranged level you took it to. 
 
Gotta say, you still seem to be dodging. You are throwing limonoids out there, but which specific extract are you claiming is safe? Are we talking about azadirachtin? 
If not, could you please at least specify what we are discussing, specifically. A link to the MSDS would be excellent. 

But then, even IF you have a specific SYSTEMIC that were true of (Cause I still haven't seen it.).. Even then, your initial statement is ultimately a DANGEROUS GENERALIZATION that is far less true than false.. Growing more false with every study. 

If you don't want me to take the Podium, don't call me out. I didn't come on here to preach.. I'm more of a student. Most of my day is spent in research. If you want to try and correct me on something, you better do it with facts. Even today's truth can become tomorrow's myth.. So I'm always open to new information. Please don't mistake confidence and conviction for arrogance.. 

Are systemics generally more effective, when UAD.. Without question vs. Aphids
Do systemics cause a Chernobyl effect? Without exception, they cause environmental hostility towards life that has a lasting effect.. In some cases, like Pointer insecticide for Ornamentals, which is an injected systemic (MSDS sheet https://www.arborsystems.com/material_updates/pdf/PT_MSDS.pdf ) the effects can have perennial effect.. Which is to say it can remain active for multiple years. An extreme example of Chernobyl effect. 
I like to use this an example because it highlights the way the Industry can put the facts right in front of you, in such a way as to make it something appear safer than it really is.. But upon critical analysis, it's right there.. 
More better at killing aphids! Just one of numerous formulations of Imidacloprid.. Generally accepted and used, killing bees and other beneficials wholesale across our country. 

Indoors is completely different from outside and greenhouse.. Damn skippy! But that doesn't support your argument, it erodes, because it is a very delicate and easy disrupted environment. To sit here and list the non-target species involved in my parameters would be exhaustive and, as I've tried to state.. Nothing to do with our argument, much as you'd love it to be.

Now go ahead and tell me how your chemical doesn't have similar actions. But don't just say it or beat around the bush.. Have a chemical MSDS in the post, or just admit that you have made a very dangerous statement that is false and amend it, without any reservations.. And try to be more careful about what you say online in the future, where so it is so visible, as you pointed out yourself. 

I forgive you, even if you aren't sorry. We all live in ignorance and must struggle to find the truth.. Whether it is evident or hidden. I am far from perfect and all-knowing.. I've been wrong before and have no doubts it's gonna happen again. I'm sure there is a ton of stuff surrounding pepper culture, in general, you could teach me.. Even in regards to pests and pest control.

And when that's all said and done, we are still left to wonder..

Just how well is the SNS-209 treatment going?   





 

 

[solid7]

I have yet to kill any of my plants using soap.

Well, I can't say the same. If I mentioned it, it's because I've done it, and could show you pictures right now. In fact, if there's a way to fuck up a plant, I've probably done it at least twice.  I don't make it a point to discuss things that crossed my mind in passing.  If we're talking, it's directly impacted me, somehow.

If I've mentioned to be careful spraying soap on tender growth, it's for a reason.  Refer to previous statement. 
 
As far as all MSDS - you know damn well I'm talking about Aza.  And there will be no offbeat discussion about destroying non-target species down to the microscopic level.  If you know of something that isn't a fish, bee, or non-mycelial fungus - none of which should be an issue for an OW - that is a non-target collateral damage to Aza, please do tell.  Because it is one of the most widely used "organic approved" systemic substances in existence.  No better place to discuss it than a sticky thread.
 
I'm not sure if we're having some sort of communication issue here, or what the hell.  But this is way conflated.  I've grown up in commercial agriculture, and have had stints working (for a well known government agency) in a life sciences lab.  It's not that I'm a dolt.  I think it's just that I am tired of hearing you use personal pronouns. 
 
You say that it's not a pissing match - but between all of the humble bragging, condescension, and passive-aggressive jabs, I'd beg to differ.  I'm not even sure if I can really hear, much less digest what you are saying anymore, through the thinly veiled ego trip.  So I think it's probably best to just move on, before somebody gets into trouble.  Kinda seems like we've all already been warned.

 

[CraftyFox]

Yes, I absolutely believe there is a communication breakdown here.. Let us look at how your statement of truth has evolved in this discussion, because it makes apparent the value in what we are talking about and the truths that have become evident, with critical analysis.
 
This is the blanket statement you made, initiating this discussion with me.. As it becomes plain to see, this statement only begins to be true after many exceptions and is, as I stated, A Dangerous Blanket Statement. 

 
Soap is only effective on contact, and repeated sprayings of soap on plants can be detrimental.  The pH of soap is around 9.5, typically.  
 
It is much better to use a systemic solution for any plants that have pests like aphids, which tend to be "farmed". (ants)

 
Let us evaluate this, compared to what you now appear to be stating: 
 
Since I kill peppers with improper soap applications, am terrified of aphids, and am not going to crawl around examining my plants with a lens.. Azadirachtin (I presume your "Aza") is a much better, systemic solution, for any peppers in OW grows that have pests like aphids, which tend to be "farmed".. UNLESS you are worried about bees or other affected non-target beneficial or other species that I don't believe have any place in an OW grow. 

Which also doesn't seem to concur with this statement of yours:

 
Wouldn't agree with that, at all.  Nothing nuclear about using a plant based systemic that only affects things that are actually eating the plant.  Especially when you consider that a slow growing OW will maintain succulent growth - which is the most vulnerable state for a plant to be in.  And also the most desirable to a pest.
 
 

So, moving forward.. If we could:
Confine our discussion to actual results,defined parameters, and/or factual statements..
As opposed to perceived parameters and/or assertions of opinion..
Or at least clarify the difference, especially when it conflicts current IPM practices and teachings..
I'll be more than content to walk away from this pile of glue that once was a horse of a discussion, long since dead..
Just like bees and the numerous other, growing list of insects and lifeforms, that are exposed to azadirachtin ( a still not-so-well researched chemical of significant activity of many levels), directly and indirectly. Some of what is known is collected neatly in this cited work https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29990301, more than enough to give me pause when considering it's use, and certainly not something I would recommend wholesale without an understanding of the full goal intended.. Especially regarding someone who was planing to employ a method which can plausibly be employed in a non-lethal solution, indoors or anywhere else.

I don't know much about extracts of rosemary, nor do I have experience with them, but they sound very interesting.. Can't wait to get updates on the results. After all, like the Industry states, who cares how safe something is if it doesn't work?! I can tell you already, without even experimenting, it will work better with companion attractant plants, especially ones that are initially left untreated. 

I'm definitely looking for alternatives.. Wishing your initial statement were true of at least one Systemic. I'm not one to pass judgement on people, nor will I fault people for exploring options that aren't well known or falling back to what works when other options aren't known or effective. Your perceptions of me really don't bother me, only your attempts to use them to cloud to truth.
 
In isolating an outbreak of aphids indoors, I can tell you that light is a variable of considerable interest.. Considering my experiment has run for 3 days, with over 20 flying adults collected on the window daily and none collected on a control plant, half the distance away on the same counter..opposite of the light source.  It may have also contributed to my success with my earlier aphid control as "clean" plants were moved away from the window and infested ones remained closer to the dominant light sources.. Hard to say when the targets were not allowed to reach the stage of maturity that seems to tie them to that trait, like so many other, predictable insect adults. Other movement from the infested plant to the control appears to be very limited, if it's happening at all. It too had aphids when moved into the isolation.. With almost none to be found now.  Pretty underwhelming and hard to compare to what I understand to be a high level insect threat of limited options for control. 

We won't talk much about what my research indicates regarding the effects of my soap-water method "spray" on the population of parasitic wasps, in the fear it may be regarded as off-topic.. But I feel it is important to note that I have found only one (alive thankfully), since the treatment.. 1 in 3 days as opposed to 3 a day before( usually dead ones). 



 
 

 

[stettoman]

Just how well is the SNS-209 treatment going? 





 

 
Sorry, felt compelled to back away from the conversation lest I get some on me....
 
The SNS 209 treatment is ongoing, with the leary assumption that it will ultimately build a barrier of some degree to the little bastiges, which haven't killed any plants yet, but are trying...
 
Knowing that the active ingredient in SNS 209 is a rosemary extract (yes, the stuff that makes bread so damned yummy), I have assumed an attitude that at least it can't hurt...It does smell like rosemary, and it does not appear to be having any effect........yet. The destructions claim that it takes these plants weeks to absorb enough to make an aphid puke, I'm willing to wait it out just that long before a major league systemic gets called up from the bullpen. I am not, nor have I ever been, an organic grower; I will utilize what works. For now I'm actively  pruning and squishing and drowning upwards of 1-200 marauders every other day...
 
On a side, I sprayed Pyrethrins on my LO Thai overwinter a week ago, it lost 3/4 of it's leaves within 48 hours. New growth is already robust, but  have to inspect twice daily, they are propagating that fast. I assume there is a squadron of adult winged bugs intent on infesting and reinfesting my plants on a 24/7 basis...

 

[CraftyFox]

 
Sorry, felt compelled to back away from the conversation lest I get some on me....
 
The SNS 209 treatment is ongoing, with the leary assumption that it will ultimately build a barrier of some degree to the little bastiges, which haven't killed any plants yet, but are trying...
 
Knowing that the active ingredient in SNS 209 is a rosemary extract (yes, the stuff that makes bread so damned yummy), I have assumed an attitude that at least it can't hurt...It does smell like rosemary, and it does not appear to be having any effect........yet. The destructions claim that it takes these plants weeks to absorb enough to make an aphid puke, I'm willing to wait it out just that long before a major league systemic gets called up from the bullpen. I am not, nor have I ever been, an organic grower; I will utilize what works. For now I'm actively  pruning and squishing and drowning upwards of 1-200 marauders every other day...
 
On a side, I sprayed Pyrethrins on my LO Thai overwinter a week ago, it lost 3/4 of it's leaves within 48 hours. New growth is already robust, but  have to inspect twice daily, they are propagating that fast. I assume there is a squadron of adult winged bugs intent on infesting and reinfesting my plants on a 24/7 basis...

From what I read so far on rosemary.. Definitely works best with attractant plants. Any ideas which species of aphids you have? It'd be easy to figure out a more favorable plant if you do. I haven't seen any wasps in at least a day or two now.. And have only been controlling my general population isolates and letting the heavily infested one go in the bathroom isolation control. My boy came walking out into the kitchen yesterday with a flier on his arm.. I'm dealing with Myzus persicae and Macrosiphum euphorbiae(who is much more prolific and faster to mature). 
I've definitely used some systemics before.. Never said I wouldn't. Might yet this winter..
Some other things to note that I guess I overlook and oversimplify is, when I go to really get rid of them by hand.. Just like with thrips( Now thrips I hate!) 
-Open flowers gotta go. Too much work and nearly impossible to get them all. I always dab the new growth with the weak solution (A drop to like 4oz water), using a cotton swab, to smother the tiny ones you can hardly see with a lens (You can see all live birthed with a lens).. Or just remove all new growth as part of the treatment (depends on if you feel you can spare it)
I forgot that because I learned it dealing with thrips.. Little super tiny demons.
For the record, I never claimed soap was the best method either. It's just something that almost everyone has on hand and works as a great temporary control in a pinch. I've never done the "bath" method with it, but I'm thinking of trying it out on those Potato aphids.. They are the ones that I let go full on Epidemic in the bathroom.. Sounds like the kind you may have too, from the numbers. Are they pink? Or some other color?
 

 

[stettoman]

I'm going by the layman's perspective, but I'm pretty sure they're green peach aphids.

 

[anders1514]

Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences with the milkweed assassin bug? 
 
Everything I read says they're beneficial, but the other day I saw one killing one of my ladybugs (I introduced ladybugs to fight white flies). 
 
White fly is my biggest pest problem, so my gut tells me to get rid of the milkweed assassins to maximize my ladybug population, but then I go online and read they're beneficial. 
 
Anyone else have experience with them? 

 

[solid7]

Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences with the milkweed assassin bug? 
 
Everything I read says they're beneficial, but the other day I saw one killing one of my ladybugs (I introduced ladybugs to fight white flies). 
 
White fly is my biggest pest problem, so my gut tells me to get rid of the milkweed assassins to maximize my ladybug population, but then I go online and read they're beneficial. 
 
Anyone else have experience with them? 

 
It's been my experience that while assassin bugs are fantastic predators, they can be a bit indiscriminate.  I can't imagine them being that effective against whitefly, as whitefly are so tiny.  The #1 beneficial against whitefly, is lacewing, all day long...

 

[anders1514]

 
It's been my experience that while assassin bugs are fantastic predators, they can be a bit indiscriminate.  I can't imagine them being that effective against whitefly, as whitefly are so tiny.  The #1 beneficial against whitefly, is lacewing, all day long...

 
Thank you! I think you're right; I see the assassin bugs targeting larger flies but never the whitefly. I tried introducing lacewing but without much luck. The ladybugs have stuck around and the larvae do a pretty good job cleaning the leaf undersides. 

I hate to do it, but I think I'm going to take out the assassin bugs. I want to keep them, but I need the ladybugs more. 

BTW I was up in Melbourne last week! Really nice place. 

 

[solid7]

 
Thank you! I think you're right; I see the assassin bugs targeting larger flies but never the whitefly. I tried introducing lacewing but without much luck. The ladybugs have stuck around and the larvae do a pretty good job cleaning the leaf undersides. 

I hate to do it, but I think I'm going to take out the assassin bugs. I want to keep them, but I need the ladybugs more. 

BTW I was up in Melbourne last week! Really nice place. 

 
If you plan to keep lacewing around, they almost have to be your main line of defense.  That means no spraying, of any kind.  No soap, no Neem, no nothing.  Not even hose downs.  Just gotta roll the dice.  Admittedly, it's hard to keep them around.  You can encourage that by planting companion plants.  Cilantro, caraway, chervil, dill, fennel, and parsley.  Of course, in our state, that stuff really only grows NOW during the cool months.  It all bolts and dies off in the warm weather.  But better something than nothing...

 

[anders1514]

 
If you plan to keep lacewing around, they almost have to be your main line of defense.  That means no spraying, of any kind.  No soap, no Neem, no nothing.  Not even hose downs.  Just gotta roll the dice.  Admittedly, it's hard to keep them around.  You can encourage that by planting companion plants.  Cilantro, caraway, chervil, dill, fennel, and parsley.  Of course, in our state, that stuff really only grows NOW during the cool months.  It all bolts and dies off in the warm weather.  But better something than nothing...

 

Got it. By the time I introduced lacewings I was scrambling. I'd already tried neem and ladybugs. 

Whitefly pretty much ruined my harvest this year. I'll start again and bring in some of those companion plants (we love cilantro, dill, and parsley - lots of fish in our house . TY!!!

 

[solid7]

 
Got it. By the time I introduced lacewings I was scrambling. I'd already tried neem and ladybugs. 

Whitefly pretty much ruined my harvest this year. I'll start again and bring in some of those companion plants (we love cilantro, dill, and parsley - lots of fish in our house . TY!!!

 
For whitefly, avoid overfertilizing like the plague.  I can't stress enough - low doses.  They absolutely love a twitchy gardener's patch.  Add lots and lots of organic material to your grow - top dress for containers or raised beds - and keep your planting area well clear of any kind of weediness. (unless it's aforementioned companions)

I would also encourage you to get some catnip and peppermint in there.