Okay... I know this is a touchy subject, but it's one subject that I love.... UNIONS OR F THE UNIONS? I have my opionion, but I'd love to hear others. LET IT RIP!
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Unions
- Thread starter ExtremeBurn
- Start date
Well I can say that working for a government entity, a Union is a must. I can not tell you how many times that the Union has been there protecting our best interests and I'm not speaking monetary issues, because that still sucks.
Skydiver said:
F THE UNIONS????? I TOTALLY AGREE! hahahahaha
rds040800 said:
I couldn't agree more.
in theory unions are great but mostly they're a joke.
yes they work for fair wage & benys but also to line their pockets & let worthless people tag along just cuz they're part of the union.
they say if you want it done correct & fair/cheap price you should have the union build it
ok once you say union or govt its not done cheap!!!! still doesnt mean its done right none less than non-union!
know some people that belong to the union & think its a F'ing joke but stay only for the benys, otherwise they consider them the gestapo - telling you what to do, how to vote,etc...
if you tried to unionize every workforce job, businesses would go under,prices would go way up!! on everything, people get to tag along & get paid for doing nothing...oh wait we already have govt programs like that
yes they work for fair wage & benys but also to line their pockets & let worthless people tag along just cuz they're part of the union.
they say if you want it done correct & fair/cheap price you should have the union build it
ok once you say union or govt its not done cheap!!!! still doesnt mean its done right none less than non-union!know some people that belong to the union & think its a F'ing joke but stay only for the benys, otherwise they consider them the gestapo - telling you what to do, how to vote,etc...
if you tried to unionize every workforce job, businesses would go under,prices would go way up!! on everything, people get to tag along & get paid for doing nothing...oh wait we already have govt programs like that
why you ask ? are you thinking about joining a union ?
Unions are the reason the price of vehicles are so high. Auto workers make around $72 an hour with benefits through UAW, while people doing the same work in a Toyota truck factory make $48 an hour benefits included with no union. Yet both pay on the same hourly wage scale without benifits, yet the UAW worker has to pay union dues so in theory they make less because of a union and don't have benifits that are nearly as good.
rds040800 said:
its funny you brought this up, a neighbor told me one of his nephews starting wage with no experience at a motor vehicle factory was something like $20+ an hour (I forget the ammount cuz its been almost 1 year)
another reason to buy used, to bring the price back to normal.
Wasn't sure if this thread was about labor unions or the holy union of matrimony. I know nothing of labor unions..........and the other is just an unrelenting PITA
Until every state has Right to Work laws, unions can kiss my ass.
My second job as a nurse was in a "closed" shop. I "forgot" to fill out the forms (on purpose) that would let my paycheck get docked to pay the thieves.
They didn't find out about it for some time, and when the union steward came to tell me, I laughed and told her to go pound salt up her ass.
I've sided with management at the expense of union "coworkers".
I've crossed picket lines. Some fat f--king wannabe tough guy isn't going to keep me from my work and my paycheck when I was happy enough with my job. If I'm not happy, I wasn't going to bitch and moan like a little kid, I'd move jobs. That's what grown ups do.
I'll make nice with unions when Right to Work laws are put in place everywhere. Until then, f--k em.
Oh, and as far as workplace safety goes, I'll trust OSHA before I trust some lazy slob sitting in an office collecting the union dues they've stolen from the workers.
My second job as a nurse was in a "closed" shop. I "forgot" to fill out the forms (on purpose) that would let my paycheck get docked to pay the thieves.
They didn't find out about it for some time, and when the union steward came to tell me, I laughed and told her to go pound salt up her ass.
I've sided with management at the expense of union "coworkers".
I've crossed picket lines. Some fat f--king wannabe tough guy isn't going to keep me from my work and my paycheck when I was happy enough with my job. If I'm not happy, I wasn't going to bitch and moan like a little kid, I'd move jobs. That's what grown ups do.
I'll make nice with unions when Right to Work laws are put in place everywhere. Until then, f--k em.
Oh, and as far as workplace safety goes, I'll trust OSHA before I trust some lazy slob sitting in an office collecting the union dues they've stolen from the workers.
So SD........is that a 'for em' or 'F em'?
j/k Skydiver
j/k Skydiver
No offense, but I think unions are for the past... just like slavery
In my experience, and the theory I've been reading for my degree, a couple of things come to mind.
From the employer's point of view:
In a loose (ie lots of people wanting work) labour market:
1. Low skilled employees are expendable
2. The less conditions, the more flexible the workforce (ie part time, no penalty shift loadings)
3. Need to keep costs down to satisfy the profit motive, easiset way to lower costs is to lower the largest (and easiest) cost element in the production process -- cost of labour.
Therefore, unions suck. They tend to drive up costs of labour by requiring such things as "meal breaks", minimum hours off between shifts, loadings/penalties for night work.
In a tight labour market:
1. Low skill employees expendable
2. Need to keep/attract best staff by offering good pay/conditions
3. Slackers tend to keep their job because there's no one else to hire (but first in line to go when business reduces)
Unions STILL suck.
From Employee's POV:
Tight labour market:
1. Protect rights at work by enforcing meal breaks, rest periods. Prevent price under cutting by scabs, foreign imported labour.
2. Provide a consolidated voice for individuals in a weak negotiating position.
3. Provide information and support when things go wrong such as workplace injury or harassment or managerial bullying.
Loose labour market
1. Prevent business from undercutting wages
2. Ensure the employees can have a voice at the table.
This being said, as a former base level employee, I was glad for the union at times, but for the most part, they had a political agenda, and used their collected dues to further the political careers of the people at head office, and a little bit of advocacy for members. Mostly career advancement for the wannabe politicians.
I see the capitalist motive in play in a lot of organisations that will do WHATEVER it takes to remove power from the employees, including the right to assembly (unionism). Think Big Box store WallyWorld who actively stamp out union organising.
So, if an organisation actually cares about its workforce, their health and wellbeing, f##k the union. But where an employer is simply trying to cut costs by f##king the employee over, get them in to kick some heads.
Don't forget, many organistions belong to 'unions' of a kind; industry groups, think tanks, professional associations, business councils.
In terms of leaving jobs, not everyone has the self esteem, self awareness or financial means to just up and leave, nor even take a day off to go to an interview. Secondly, not everyone lives in a city/town where there are multiple employers.
An example of where de-unionising has worked really well: Harley Davidson in Kansas(?). They opened a new plant, kept 5% of the workforce, hired new peope for the remaining jobs. They cut the lead time on custom bikes from 2 yrs to 2 weeks! How? They empowered the staff to make decisions, involved them in decision making (not lip service involvement, but real input) and organised them into a team environment rather than the Taylorist/Fordist Scientific management principles of production lines.
Where people feel a disconnect from the manufacturing work process, you are more likely to find a union presence. I don't know so much about gov't, or office worker unionism.
Where do I stand? At least in this country, we have adequate legislative tools in place to protect workers. So, no to unions so long as the relevant authorities investigate and prosecute those that take advantage of employees.
RS
From the employer's point of view:
In a loose (ie lots of people wanting work) labour market:
1. Low skilled employees are expendable
2. The less conditions, the more flexible the workforce (ie part time, no penalty shift loadings)
3. Need to keep costs down to satisfy the profit motive, easiset way to lower costs is to lower the largest (and easiest) cost element in the production process -- cost of labour.
Therefore, unions suck. They tend to drive up costs of labour by requiring such things as "meal breaks", minimum hours off between shifts, loadings/penalties for night work.
In a tight labour market:
1. Low skill employees expendable
2. Need to keep/attract best staff by offering good pay/conditions
3. Slackers tend to keep their job because there's no one else to hire (but first in line to go when business reduces)
Unions STILL suck.
From Employee's POV:
Tight labour market:
1. Protect rights at work by enforcing meal breaks, rest periods. Prevent price under cutting by scabs, foreign imported labour.
2. Provide a consolidated voice for individuals in a weak negotiating position.
3. Provide information and support when things go wrong such as workplace injury or harassment or managerial bullying.
Loose labour market
1. Prevent business from undercutting wages
2. Ensure the employees can have a voice at the table.
This being said, as a former base level employee, I was glad for the union at times, but for the most part, they had a political agenda, and used their collected dues to further the political careers of the people at head office, and a little bit of advocacy for members. Mostly career advancement for the wannabe politicians.
I see the capitalist motive in play in a lot of organisations that will do WHATEVER it takes to remove power from the employees, including the right to assembly (unionism). Think Big Box store WallyWorld who actively stamp out union organising.
So, if an organisation actually cares about its workforce, their health and wellbeing, f##k the union. But where an employer is simply trying to cut costs by f##king the employee over, get them in to kick some heads.
Don't forget, many organistions belong to 'unions' of a kind; industry groups, think tanks, professional associations, business councils.
In terms of leaving jobs, not everyone has the self esteem, self awareness or financial means to just up and leave, nor even take a day off to go to an interview. Secondly, not everyone lives in a city/town where there are multiple employers.
An example of where de-unionising has worked really well: Harley Davidson in Kansas(?). They opened a new plant, kept 5% of the workforce, hired new peope for the remaining jobs. They cut the lead time on custom bikes from 2 yrs to 2 weeks! How? They empowered the staff to make decisions, involved them in decision making (not lip service involvement, but real input) and organised them into a team environment rather than the Taylorist/Fordist Scientific management principles of production lines.
Where people feel a disconnect from the manufacturing work process, you are more likely to find a union presence. I don't know so much about gov't, or office worker unionism.
Where do I stand? At least in this country, we have adequate legislative tools in place to protect workers. So, no to unions so long as the relevant authorities investigate and prosecute those that take advantage of employees.
RS
I have worked for a company that had both union and non-union facilities. Their union rep came to our facility trying to get our plant to join saying they would protect wages and get better health care benefits for us. And the union dues were 12% of our after tax check every week.
Luckily what all of our people realized at our facility was that our pay scale was based on our Califonia location, and this pay was spread through the whole company which benifited everyone. If they had done pay at each facility differently, I would have made about $6 less an hour.
Most companies have policies in place that do all the same things for employees such as break time, certain number of hours between shifts and so on.
Luckily what all of our people realized at our facility was that our pay scale was based on our Califonia location, and this pay was spread through the whole company which benifited everyone. If they had done pay at each facility differently, I would have made about $6 less an hour.
Most companies have policies in place that do all the same things for employees such as break time, certain number of hours between shifts and so on.
There are many pros and cons -- I work for the labor union memebers I am not union -- Not everything is as glorious as you would think -- Not all bennys are paid its what is agreed by the employer, conditions do suck on big jobs, especially skyscrapers there is a place for unions as much as there are some professions that seem silly but there were unhappy workers that petitioned for the union at some point so there must be a reason they are involved in your field.