Winter Farmers Market Controversy

[Gemini Crow Sauce Company]

As the Farmers Market season starts to draw to a close on the East Coast, I have been approached by one of my current markets about taking part in their Winter edition.
 
I have been a loyal weekly vendor since April, and while it being my first season with this market, I think I have done pretty well and have drawn a lot of repeat business over the last several months.
 
Just received an email from the market manager in regards to the Winter edition and she mentioned that another hot sauce company is looking to come in as well, and we should discuss rotating weeks.
 
First reaction:  Fuck them! I should have first right of refusal. While i never signed anything saying I was to be the only hot sauce vendor, I think it is a common courtesy to allow me to decide if I am going to take part before accepting another competing company.
 
Second reaction: Who the hell wants to stand out in the freezing January cold from 8am till 12pm anyways?
 
Third reaction: Rotating with this other company might work in both of our favors, if we both market our appearances, we should get spicy food fans there each week, and it can only help us both out...
 
Fourth reaction: Still kind of annoyed that I am not given that common courtesy.....Market seems prepared to have us both there each week if we both decided to sign on.
 
Paperwork will be due in a few weeks, but I'd like to solidify my position and even make a few of my own requests before the other company signs on...There are other Saturday winter markets out there, but this is a good one, that I think will be worth it....
 
What would you do? Sign on full time? try to work a rotation with the other guy? or be spitfeul and tell them they can have the other company and move on?
 

 

[pepperguy1]

I would look at a lot of things.

(1) Do you really like the place?
(2) Do you really want to sign something?
(3) Do you still feel you were done wrong?
(4) Do you feel the market sill has a place for you and your Hot Sauce?

I would look at the whole thing and go from there.Good Luck.

 

[geeme]

Right of refusal is not a common courtesy - it is something granted (or not) by contract. Our country works best in a competitive market, so better to get used to it now. Fact is you have a LOT of competitors out there already. Instead of getting upset and spiteful, get prepared - what are you going to do in order to stand out from your competitors? Don't focus on what you perceive to be negative, but instead focus on what is positive about you and your product - THOSE are the things that will sell.

 

[Gemini Crow Sauce Company]

I do like the place. It was a solid market this past spring/summer.
There's nothing to sign outside of the application.
I don't feel wronged. Maybe a bit disrespected? All my markets I have done are 12-16 vendors. 2 at one market is overkill. I feel I earned the right to have first right of refusal.
I don't understand your last question.

 

[alkhall]

You could look at it as an opportunity to see how your product measures up to the 'competition'.
 
If you are confident you have the superior product, what is the issue? Show the other guy how it is done.
 
On the other hand, if you are afraid you may lose, then why are you even in business?

 

[Hawaiianero]

Do it with the option to back out without penalty if the weather is too much. Like you said, 8 to 12 in January? That's dedication

 

[catherinew]

I like geeme's response about making your product(s) better than competitors.  Are you selling just hot sauce?  Any marinades?  Is everything hot hot?
 
Have you thought of any hot pepper jams/jellies?  Or fruit jams with hot peppers added?
 
Good luck and let us know how you're faring.
 
Just keep a positive attitude and you'll do well.

 

[FeistyParrot]

Crow...just saw the complete winners list for the Chile Pepper Awards....CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!

Blackberry Belle is on my Xmas wish list :-)

 

[Gemini Crow Sauce Company]

Crow...just saw the complete winners list for the Chile Pepper Awards....CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!

Blackberry Belle is on my Xmas wish list :-)

 
Thank you! I am still on Cloud 9! I'm humbled every time someone tastes my sauce and likes it and double thrilled when they actually buy a bottle. To be recognized on any competitive level is an amazing feeling....

Right of refusal is not a common courtesy - it is something granted (or not) by contract. Our country works best in a competitive market, so better to get used to it now. Fact is you have a LOT of competitors out there already. Instead of getting upset and spiteful, get prepared - what are you going to do in order to stand out from your competitors? Don't focus on what you perceive to be negative, but instead focus on what is positive about you and your product - THOSE are the things that will sell.

 
Well....Murphy's Law kiked in.....Bout 90 minutes after I made my post, the market manager reached out to me and did exactly what I was hoping would have happened. She said she had meant to write ot me sooner, but got caught up in other things. Basically, she asked me if I had any issues with them possibly allowing another hot sauce vendor in the market, and that if I had an issue with it, they'd show loyalty to me if I wanted to be part of the Winter Market.....All i wanted....
 
I respectively disagree though.
When I sign up for the NYC Hot Sauce Fest, or Bowers, or Kempton, or any sort of spicy event, I expect vendors with similar products to be there.
I have been turned down by markets for the sole reason of them already having a spicy food vendor and not wanting to offend the company who signed up first. I have been turned down for festivals because they had a sponsorship with Tobasco or Frank's, and they stated, no competitors....I get it....No contract, I have no rights......But in a small market with only 12-14 vendors, having two of the same type of companies there is a different situation. (in my eyes at least). I do feel on the small scale, that it is only polite and respectful to notify your current vendor that they are considering taking in a direct competitor....
 
I am confident in my product...

Do it with the option to back out without penalty if the weather is too much. Like you said, 8 to 12 in January? That's dedication

 
I'm all down with rotating weeks...Never about that....
And, the more I think of it, the more I think I am crazy to do this anyways.....I am sure I could fill up my weekends with different types of indoor events....I just wanna be busy busy busy

I like geeme's response about making your product(s) better than competitors.  Are you selling just hot sauce?  Any marinades?  Is everything hot hot?
 
Have you thought of any hot pepper jams/jellies?  Or fruit jams with hot peppers added?
 
Good luck and let us know how you're faring.
 
Just keep a positive attitude and you'll do well.

I have five hot sauces of varying heat levels and a spicy ketchup. 
The ultimate dream is to have a BBQ Sauce, Mustard, Rubs, and dip my hands in all the fields of things spicy....
 
As mentioned before, my real issue was addressed by the market manager, so I am content..
 
Was just more curious to see how other people would deal in my situation...
 
It's all good!  thank you all for the feedback!

 

[Husker21]

Like many have said, look on the bright side of every thing. I was ready to skip a market this week cause it was slow. I went and it ended up being my second best day at that market.

The markets I am at are really cool about not duplicating vendors. Sounds like your market master did the right thing in the end.

Not sure how your winter market is set up. One of my local ones is held in a green house with big outdoor heaters. It's still cold but at least you are out of the elements.

 

[Gemini Crow Sauce Company]

Like many have said, look on the bright side of every thing. I was ready to skip a market this week cause it was slow. I went and it ended up being my second best day at that market.

The markets I am at are really cool about not duplicating vendors. Sounds like your market master did the right thing in the end.

Not sure how your winter market is set up. One of my local ones is held in a green house with big outdoor heaters. It's still cold but at least you are out of the elements.

 
I think they are discussing moving it into a high school in the area....That'd be swell....The idea of standing in the NJ cold is not appealing...What if it snowed the day before, or during, or rain? So many factors, which may alter my decision over the next few weeks....Praying they find a way to get it indoors....They have been doing it for years, so it must be somewhat a success....LOL

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

Didn't have time to read all the replies so apologies if some of mine is redundant....my $0.02:

1. Competition is a good thing. You might make better sauce. You might have a better price. You might appeal to different types of customers. Competition in a single market is very common. At my biggest market there are 3 other vendors who sell sauce. Some cost more than mine, some less. Two are "FDA exemption" as they grow everything in their sauce & they sell only at the market. One sells mostly chutneys and peanut sauces but has a few hot sauces - (and also used to be a driver for Jerry Garcia - super cool dude... Great peanut sauce). - the point is that we've all become good friends because we are all passionate about what we do. We're fans of each other's products and recommend our customers to each other. In the end the customer will decide who's products to buy. But competition helps us all to do well by providing a basis of comparison.

2. Winter time is a good time for a new vendor to get in. I got into all of my locations by paying the dues of standing in the rain for months and not missing markets - helping to provide a customer experience for winter shoppers. I also get more new loyal customers in winter as I have more time for them and because they're hardcore market shoppers. I wouldn't say "F winter markets" - I'd say "suck it up, princess, that's the job." seriously though - buy a coat and some warm shoes, bring a thermos of coffee or tea. Inclimate weather happens. You have a brand to promote.

3. Do you have to rotate? Ask them if it's possible for you both to work the same weeks - tell them competition doesn't bother you. But that said, every other week is a nice option in crappy weather. Why be hurt? Embrace the opportunity - if your rent doesn't depend on it, you're getting every other weekend off without losing your spot in the market. Sounds like a win/win.

Final thoughts: in 2.5 years of seling hot sauce, I've missed maybe 5 winter markets out of 3 winter markets a week. Because you never know what day it'll be that a great new customer who tells 20 people about your sauce is going to happen. Example: Last month I was set up at my night market on a windy crappy night - a 4-sandbag kinda evening, with a light mist. As it turned out, a major Bay Area radio station booth was in for a 1-day thing. They happened to set up next to me. The morning show host and her crew all did tastings, and all bought sauce from me. I kicked down a couple bottles "for the cause" and heard from friends the nest day that they were talking up Lucky Dog on the radio station the next morning. I was an inch away from bagging that market because of the crappy weather - thankfully I went.

Just sayin - luck is opportunity & circumstance. If you can do a winter market, do it. If they want to have you in every other week that's their prerogative. Maybe they want to mix it up and have multiple local brands for their customers to try. It's not anything to get upset about - we have so many apple vendors at one market that they get into a rotation similar to that at certain times of year.

Good luck with your decision, but last bit of advice - if you bag the market for the whole winter, that vendor who does show up in the wind and rain might just get your spot in the summer. Fair weather vendors lose their spots often.

 

[Sam & Oliver]

IRT: The 2nd vendor... and as Lucky Dog posted above, I would think competition would be good, especially if you have a good sauce.
 
I went to the regional Durham Fair in Connecticut over the weekend.  I ran into 2 people selling hot sauce and immediately went up and said hello, gave them my card and introduced myself.  One was a guy from Massachusetts who had a co-packed sauce that was ok, but I know I have a superior product.  The other was an extract sauce from someone who was more focused on making shock-style food that was so hot it made me almost want to grab a trashcan and fill it on the spot.
 
I wouldn't mind having competition... just not right next to each-other.  How large is the market?  Can you be on opposite ends?  Can you position yourself next to someone selling food or beer?  Make sure you aren't overpriced and you should be set.
 
I would think as a startup (are you still a startup?) - you want to be in-your-face and seen everywhere.  Even if you aren't making $50+ per sale, I would still (personally) sit there even if I sold 1 bottle per hour and tell my story to everyone who wanted to hear.  I know sales will come around eventually.  I'm not a salesman so I know I'm making some mistakes but I know I have to be seen to have people step up.
 
IRT: Lucky dog: I would still think money would talk when it comes to saving a spot, no?

 

[Gemini Crow Sauce Company]

IRT: The 2nd vendor... and as Lucky Dog posted above, I would think competition would be good, especially if you have a good sauce.
 
I went to the regional Durham Fair in Connecticut over the weekend.  I ran into 2 people selling hot sauce and immediately went up and said hello, gave them my card and introduced myself.  One was a guy from Massachusetts who had a co-packed sauce that was ok, but I know I have a superior product.  The other was an extract sauce from someone who was more focused on making shock-style food that was so hot it made me almost want to grab a trashcan and fill it on the spot.
 
I wouldn't mind having competition... just not right next to each-other.  How large is the market?  Can you be on opposite ends?  Can you position yourself next to someone selling food or beer?  Make sure you aren't overpriced and you should be set.
 
I would think as a startup (are you still a startup?) - you want to be in-your-face and seen everywhere.  Even if you aren't making $50+ per sale, I would still (personally) sit there even if I sold 1 bottle per hour and tell my story to everyone who wanted to hear.  I know sales will come around eventually.  I'm not a salesman so I know I'm making some mistakes but I know I have to be seen to have people step up.
 
IRT: Lucky dog: I would still think money would talk when it comes to saving a spot, no?

 
 
It's all good. it all worked out. The market manager reached out to me literally a day after I made my post on here with my concerns and expressed her sorrow that she did not reach out to me personally first in regards to possibly bringing in another hot sauce vendor and if I had issues with it. That's all I wanted.
 
I'm not afraid of competition. I am uber confident in the products I sell. It was never about that.
While Gemini Crow (the spicy company has been around for over a year), I have only been out in public since March (NYC Expo was my first event), I am still somewhat new to the farmers market scene.
 
When I goto the NYC Hot Sauce Expo, obviously I expect 40-50 other spicy vendors. Same with Kempton, Bowers, Smoke n Fire, or whatever fest comes up....When I did the NJ State Fair which drew 135,000 people over 10 days and had 250-300 vendors, I understood and accepted that there were two other hot sauce vendors there.....
The 4-5 farmers markets I have been rotating through this season averaged anywhere from 12-14 vendors per market, so when the possibility of 2 people selling the same niche product comes up, it was a bit more of a respect issue than a competition issue....
 
But it's all good. I actually reached out to the other guy and we are actually gonna grab drinks one night soon and talk shop. My plan is to do every other week anyways. This is gonna be an indoor market. I have a lot of shows/expos/conventions lined up thru the Fall/Winter. I'll deal with my outdoor winter marekt on Sundays based on Weather. 
 
It's shaping to be a good Fall/Winter season!
 
       

 

[Sam & Oliver]

That's cool.  I've been racking my mind trying to figure out what venues to hit next year, when I plan to start really getting out there.  I've been dabbling here and there for now, but I'm just gonna chalk up 2014 as the startup and hit 2015 hard, booking as many shows and markets as I can.  I'm not sure where to start in CT that's worthwhile.  I drive past a few markets on the way home but they look small and local (like, less than 200 people show up type of places).
 
I've also been saving up to get my booth and stuff, still need the ez-up and a few things, including a vehicle to haul it (may just rent a u-haul until I can buy a beater, which are getting hard to find due to the bad weather predicted in new england this year)...
 
Who knows, lol, maybe I'll see you around New England sometime

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

 
IRT: Lucky dog: I would still think money would talk when it comes to saving a spot, no?

No.

Showing up is half the job.

And money does talk - they'd rather have a booth than an empty space. - either way they're going to get their stall fee, regardless of whether that's Crow paying for being absent or someone else paying to be there.

The market would rather someone be there. Miss enough winter markets and the market manager will likely find someone who will show up. Their priority is generally filling the market so there's a positive customer experience.

 

[Gemini Crow Sauce Company]

I've also been saving up to get my booth and stuff, still need the ez-up and a few things, including a vehicle to haul it (may just rent a u-haul until I can buy a beater, which are getting hard to find due to the bad weather predicted in new england this year)...
 
Who knows, lol, maybe I'll see you around New England sometime

 
If you have the funds to do it, then I'm all about going 'all out' and doing it...
 
For the first eight months of being out there, I drove a Toyota Prius, which is small....I am able to fit an 8 foot table, my tent, and about 5-6 cases of each of my sauces, and my box of supplies in it.....I have yet to attend a fest (being young and unknown), where I need more than that.....My family situation recently forced us to buy a mini-van, which has tripled my available space for supplies, which is nice to know that I am set for the future...
 
If you don't need a truck, uhaul, car attachment or anything like that just yet, then id use my money elsewhere....until my business has grown enough to where it is a neccesity rather than a luxury.....

 

[salsalady]

sounds like you have the situation decided.  My question was going to be if you both had similar products.  Davez Foodz /Sweet Spicy Girl set up next to Lucky Dog...those are very similar products.  My fresh salsa next to Defcon...totally separate products.  
 
However it goes, good luck.  And like LDHS said..."suck it up, princess!"  Bring that XL thermos of coffee.
 
 
 
I was cracking up at the Princess comment.  Hubby says that all the time to the 'Kid when he whines about getting up for school or something~   

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

I was cracking up at the Princess comment.  Hubby says that all the time to the 'Kid when he whines about getting up for school or something~  

 
I tell myself that every rainy day I have to go out at 0-dark:30 for a crappy weather market. "suck it up princess, sauce don't sell itself!"

 

[Gemini Crow Sauce Company]

buncha wise guys we have here, I see!!
 
I know little of where either of you were raised or grew up, but in current day, I'm sure winters in Northern Jersey are slightly less tolerable than CA or Texas...
 
I have my head warming crown and heat inducing saber all ready to go!!!!  im gonna be the Belle of the 'freakin' winter market ball!  LOL