Spicegeist said:
Linneaus would not be happy about this. Not one bit.
Love how you brought him up. !!
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If you need help identifying a pepper, disease, or plant issue, please post in Identification.
hybrid You called your cross what ?
- Thread starter teejay
- Start date
Love how you brought him up. !!
Unknown Yet to name. (7 pot origin)
DC Moruglah
"Not Peach Peach Bhut" (Cross of T.S. Butch T and Peach Bhut Jolokia)
DC Moruglah
"Not Peach Peach Bhut" (Cross of T.S. Butch T and Peach Bhut Jolokia)
I've got a feeling the DC Moruglah resembles what the average persons stomach would look like after consuming one...
Nice job Hammerfall !
A specific question now for RobStar:
If the Primo is not "7 Pot Primo", do you happen to know how it picked up the 7 Pot prefix ?
I must admit, I like how some names can tell you what the parentage has been, e.g. Bhutlah. No offence to Carl Linneaus ...
But, there's been alot of, ahem, *discussion* of late about parentage especially in the context of one certain "worlds hottest" chilli and alot of people cry "secret".
Honestly, I don't care too much because I'm not looking to duplicate, but, for arguments sake, I keep all the tags for the native plants I have in my garden so I know roughly what to expect from any given cross. Some might call that obsessional, but I like to think of it as "knowing what you are growing".
Keep those names coming, and pictures where available.
Regards,
Tim
Nice job Hammerfall !
A specific question now for RobStar:
If the Primo is not "7 Pot Primo", do you happen to know how it picked up the 7 Pot prefix ?
I must admit, I like how some names can tell you what the parentage has been, e.g. Bhutlah. No offence to Carl Linneaus ...
But, there's been alot of, ahem, *discussion* of late about parentage especially in the context of one certain "worlds hottest" chilli and alot of people cry "secret".
Honestly, I don't care too much because I'm not looking to duplicate, but, for arguments sake, I keep all the tags for the native plants I have in my garden so I know roughly what to expect from any given cross. Some might call that obsessional, but I like to think of it as "knowing what you are growing".
Keep those names coming, and pictures where available.
Regards,
Tim
[Bhut Jolokia x Douglah] x variety Y = The Chocolate Bhutlah
Pod from f1 mother plant 2013 season.
Hey teejay! The Primo is an outcross between a 7 Pot (most likely the original strain sent from Trinidad by trinihottie - which btw is the original cultivar stabilised by CARDI - once it landed on distant shores every T, D & H had their "own" version. No intention of crap-shooting anyone here or elsewhere: BrainStrain is basically the original version - go and check out CARDI's website - some document detailing their landraces) and a Naga Morich. Most of the "new" superhots we see nowadays have this lineage - a Trinidadian chinense outcrossed with a Naga Morich or similar. The Naga is most likely an introgressive chinense x frutescens hybrid - much the same as the Bhut Jolokia is. So technically speaking the Naga is a hybrid and it is not an outcross sensu stricto but a multiple hybrid.
7 Pots have been the rage since trinihottie offered them to members here - one can almost call it THP's contribution to the Capsicum-world! Troy produced the Primo and it has been labelled as the 7 Pot Primo ever since but in strict terms it should be called Capsicum "Primo" as the 7 Pot is a distinctive cultivar in it's own right. Different versions of the 7 Pot - such as colour variations or somewhat different phenotypes can be called 7 Pot Yellow or 7 Pot Jonah.
My take on all of this is that there is so much desire to have something new that even the slightest variation is deemed sufficient to create a new cultivar name. But that is horticulture for you. It is rife in the growers world - even worse when growers become taxonomists! Lawdy lawdy lawdy now that is a right stuff-up!
7 Pots have been the rage since trinihottie offered them to members here - one can almost call it THP's contribution to the Capsicum-world! Troy produced the Primo and it has been labelled as the 7 Pot Primo ever since but in strict terms it should be called Capsicum "Primo" as the 7 Pot is a distinctive cultivar in it's own right. Different versions of the 7 Pot - such as colour variations or somewhat different phenotypes can be called 7 Pot Yellow or 7 Pot Jonah.
My take on all of this is that there is so much desire to have something new that even the slightest variation is deemed sufficient to create a new cultivar name. But that is horticulture for you. It is rife in the growers world - even worse when growers become taxonomists! Lawdy lawdy lawdy now that is a right stuff-up!
RobStar said:
I think this is arbitrary. The 7 pot yellow seems far more removed from a 7 pot original than the 7 pot Primo. I don't understand why you would consider the yellow 7 pot a 7 pot and not the Primo. The yellow tastes radically different. The 7 pot Primo taste very much like a 7 pot. However, I can understand wanting crosses to not be considered one parent over the other. That of course isn't what's happening.
Dulac said:
The Y 7 Pot is a colour mutation of the 7 Pot. Red appears to be the dominant colour but plants can carry recessive genes for other colours (within their genetic capability). Constant growing from seed - thereby allowing for recombination of genetic material will result in recessive genes manifesting - esp. if you are sowing seed produced from a few plants - and obviously lots of seed. Then these recessive colours can be manifested. So they are the same thing - just a difference in fruit colour. Of course one can line breed these Y fruits and eventually stabilise them and you have a cultivar.
The Primo is a cross between the 7 Pot and a Naga Morich. It is an entirely different recombination of genes and therefore NOT a 7 Pot or a Naga. So call it what you want but it is not a 7 Pot because it has been crossed with a "not 7 Pot". In the world of plant breeding and cultivar naming this is strictly upheld - unless the grex is derived from multiple hybrid parents to start with - then the original hybrid names feature in the naming. Unfortunately with 7 Pots being all theb rage and mega-hype, include it in the name so it is instantly trending. True story.
RobStar said:
Maybe it never had yellow recessive genes. How do you know someone didn't cross a 7 pot with a yellow pepper to get the yellow phenotype? It tastes much like a Scotch bonnet to me. It's okay unless you know it's a cross? Also is it wrong in your opinion to name a cultivar that takes on most of the genetic traits of a 7 pot a 7 pot X? Aside from the tail, I'd say the 7 pot Primo takes on mostly 7 pot characteristics. I don't see much naga morich in the 7 pot Primo. We also don't know if other 7 pots coming out of Trinidad crossed with Congos etc. For all we know the 7 pot Jonah is crossed with a 7 pot and a Congo.
Nagas are also hyped up, but it doesn't show any naga characteristics. I'll continue calling it a 7 pot Primo. That's what we know it as. We also know what it's crossed with. What world of plant breeding are you speaking of? I breed chiles. I'm unaware of the naming convention you think we should be using.
You waste your time...RobStar said:
If you don't understand the basic genetics of the plants you apparently breeding then you tinkering without a predertimed outcome - that is not plant breeding. That is playing in your garden with your plants. Plant breeding is a labrious systematic process that involves fixing the genetic traits of a plant and combining those with another to arrive at a predertimed outcome. if you do not subscribe to that methodology then i agree with Vegas_Chili - I am wasting my time.
Well, Robstar, If you want a registry, perhaps you should step up and make one.
I was part of the Brugmansia ibrugs community back in 2001-2003 when we started an online cultivar registry, and it is still going strong today.
It just takes one person to step up and become the official recordkeeper. (I am not that person)
I am sure The Boss would be open to talking about hosting or linking to the records database here.
You could just copy the forms from the Ibrugs registry and do it all within Google Docs.
I'll help you if you need a hand.
I was part of the Brugmansia ibrugs community back in 2001-2003 when we started an online cultivar registry, and it is still going strong today.
It just takes one person to step up and become the official recordkeeper. (I am not that person)
I am sure The Boss would be open to talking about hosting or linking to the records database here.
You could just copy the forms from the Ibrugs registry and do it all within Google Docs.
I'll help you if you need a hand.
RobStar said:
Carl von Linné couldn't even keep his own name straight, but he wanted everyone else to.Spicegeist said:
Linneaus would not be happy about this. Not one bit.
also this form would be a good start for the submission they have all the details covered and you would just have to add fields for the cross, parents, and hybridizer info http://applicaties.wageningenur.nl/applications/cgngenis/AccessionDetails.aspx?acnumber=CGN22184RobStar said:
http://applicaties.wageningenur.nl/applications/cgngenis/ZoekGewas.aspx?ID=b53le255&Cropnumber=38
I agree that there should be a registry, with new members coming in just about every day and most wanting to know what is a chocolate Naga or a yellow Brain strain, then all they would is look it up in the registry.
I recieved some seeds that were labled Infinity, but what few pics I found did not look much like mine, the Infinity's in the photo were fatter and had a bit of tail where as mine was slimmer and flatten some what with a bit of a swist to them ,( I wish I had photo's of mine to compare with.) they reminded me a bit like over sized Barrockpores to a degree. If we had a registry to go to it would make them easier to ID them. Of course it wouldn't help much if the peppers had crossed some where and no longer looked like they were supposed to.
I recieved some seeds that were labled Infinity, but what few pics I found did not look much like mine, the Infinity's in the photo were fatter and had a bit of tail where as mine was slimmer and flatten some what with a bit of a swist to them ,( I wish I had photo's of mine to compare with.) they reminded me a bit like over sized Barrockpores to a degree. If we had a registry to go to it would make them easier to ID them. Of course it wouldn't help much if the peppers had crossed some where and no longer looked like they were supposed to.
RobStar said:
Because I don't know what naming convention you want us to use? Or because I will still use the name 7 pot Primo as everyone does on this site? Clarify what the hell you are saying and don't be a condescending jerk.
RobStar said:
Is this aimed at me? I don't think we necessarily need a predetermined outcome. I've made predictions in one of my crosses before on this site that were accurate. The goal for all of mine are based primarily on flavor. I understand the basics of genetics if you didn't know your majesty.
Dulac said:
This may help for those who are interested in what is considered "correct" naming.
http://www.amazon.com/Fearless-Latin-Gardeners-Introduction-Nomenclature/dp/1466323698
thegreenman said:
They don't use Latin for cultivar names. It's against the stupid rules.