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hybrid You called your cross what ?

There are rules governing naming of crosses and cultivars however. 
 
Example below:
 
http://www.pinguicula.org/pages/divers/correctly_writing_plant_names.htm
 
 
 


  • [SIZE=medium]Variety Names[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]1.  Variety names are given when the mutation occurs in nature.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Examples: a mutation occurs in Mexico[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]2.  The abbreviation var. is used to signify that the mutation is a variety. var. is placed after the specific epithet and is not underlined or italicized.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Example: Pinguicula moranensis var.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]3.  The variety name is written after var.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]4.  Capitalize the first letter of the variety name only if it is a proper noun.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]5.  Underline or italicize the variety name.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Example: Pinguicula moranensis var. neovolcanica or Pinguicula moranensis var. neovolcanica[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Mutations can also occur because of human interventions such as breeding, applying mutagens, propagation, or by cultural practices.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]In these cases, the new group of mutated plants is called a cultivar. "Cultivar" is an abbreviated form of cultivated variety. The mutated plants are assigned a cultivar name.[/SIZE]
 
Click to expand...

  • [SIZE=medium]Cultivar Names[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]1.   Cultivar names are given when the mutation occurs due to human influence.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Examples: a mutation occurs in a greenhouse[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]2.  The abreviation cv. is used to signify that the mutation is a cultivar. cv. is placed after the specific epithet and is not underlined or italicized.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Example: Pinguicula moranensis cv.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]or single quotes are used instead of cv.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Example: Pinguicula moranensis 'Superba'[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]3.   The cultivar name is written after cv. or within the single quotes.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]4.   Capitalize the cultivar name.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]5.   Never[/SIZE] underline or italicize the cultivar name.
 
[SIZE=medium]Example: Pinguicula moranensis cv. Superba or Pinguicula moranensis 'Superba'[/SIZE]


 

  • [SIZE=medium]Hybrids Names[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Hybrids are the result of crossing two or more species. Their names can be written in this way :[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Pinguicula moranensis[/SIZE] x Pinguicula ehlersiae is an hybrid very frequently grown among carnivorous plants growers.
[SIZE=medium]One of the hybrid selected was registred meaning that a common name ‘Weser’ was given to one of the crossing and all the information about its parentage, registrors, description can be found in the registration information. The ICPS is the International Cultivar Registration Authority (ICRA) for cultivated carnivorous plants, appointed by the International Society for Horticultural Science (ISHS) on November 10, 1998. In order to promote uniformity, accuracy and stability in the naming of cultivated carnivorous plants, all names of carnivorous plant cultivars and cultivar-groups must be registered with the ICPS. If you have a carnivorous plant that you want to be a cultivar, you must go to : (- link -).[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]It was once acceptable to use the "x" to indicate that the plant, even a cultivar, was of hybrid origins. This is no longer correct. The convention has been changed so that only single quotes are placed before and after the cultivar name and the name is written with the first letters capitalized and the cultivar name is never underlined or italicized.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]For example: Pinguicula 'Weser' is correct and Pinguicula x Weser or Pinguicula x 'Weser' are not correct.[/SIZE]
 




Dulac said:
 
They don't use Latin for cultivar names. It's against the stupid rules.
Click to expand...
also
 
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/rhsplantfinder/plantnaming/hownameswork.asp
 
 
 

At lower levels: subspecies, variety and form
Things start to get complicated when variation within species needs recognition by use of further names. When plants have a wide distribution in the wild, natural selection and evolution work at different rates in different areas, especially if populations become geographically isolated. Such populations are often distinguished as subspecies (abbreviated to subsp. or occasionally ssp. but this can easily be confused with spp., the abbreviation for species plural, so is not recommended), easily attributable to the species but differing in significant characters. Once a particular population is recognised as a subspecies and given a name, plants typical of the species automatically become a subspecies bearing the name of the species. Thus Malva sylvestris subsp. mauritanica differs from the typical subsp. sylvestris in having a more robust habit and larger, deeper purple flowers with darker veins.
Populations and individuals that exhibit less striking differences are named as varieties and forms (technically varietas and forma, abbreviated to var. and f. respectively). Their designation as a varietas or forma relates partly to the degree of difference exhibited and partly to the botanical tradition of the country in which a botanist was trained. So Malva alceavar. fastigiata differs from typical plants in having an upright habit (although other characters may vary too) and M. moschata f. alba simply has white rather than mauve flowers. Botanically, these are not very significant differences, but in the garden they can be crucial to achieving the desired effect.
Although subspecies, varietas and forma tend to be used somewhat erratically and interchangeably, they are technically ranked in order of difference and one plant can have a name at each rank – for example, the diminutive daffodil Narcissus romieuxii subsp. albidus var. zaianicus f.lutescens. As can be seen, there are five ranked elements to this name which, when fully presented, gives a very precise idea to the daffodil enthusiast as to the characters of the plant in question. Mercifully, this situation is rare! Such complex names are rarely used and indeed are not really essential from a naming point of view – the trinomen N. romieuxii f.lutescens provides a perfectly precise name for the plant. Where cultivars are derived from such a plant, it is not generally necessary to cite every rank but simply sufficient to add the cultivar name to the species binomial (or even just the genus). In this book, all ranks are given where known to emphasise the relationships of the plants listed.
Sometimes, a second epithet is quoted without indication of rank, an invalid construction known as an unranked trinomen or trinomial. In these cases, either the rank is not known or it is unclear whether or not the name should be treated as a cultivar. This is an unsatisfactory situation but requires considerable research to resolve.

Hybrids
Some plant species, when grown together, either in the wild or in gardens, are found to interbreed. The resulting offspring are known as hybrids and the majority occur between species within a single genus. For example, hybrids between Erica ciliaris and E. tetralix have been given the hybrid name Erica × watsonii, the multiplication sign denoting hybrid origin. Some hybrids have not been given a hybrid name but are referred to by quoting the parent species linked by a multiplication sign, for instanceDrosera pulchella × D. nitidula. This is termed a hybrid formula. Hybrids between different genera are given a new hybrid genus name and the different combinations of species are treated as species in their own right. Thus the hybrid Mahonia aquifolium × Berberis sargentiana has been named × Mahoberberis aquisargentii and M. aquifolium × B. julianae is × Mahoberberis meithkeana.
There are also a few special-case hybrids called graft hybrids, where the tissues of two plants are physically rather than genetically mixed. These are indicated by an addition rather than a multiplication sign, soLaburnum + Cytisus becomes + Laburnocytisus.

Cultivars
In cultivation, variation within species and that generated by hybridisation is particularly valued. Plants exhibiting desirable characteristics of flower colour, habit, size, variegation, fruit colour, flavour etc. are often given names. These are termed cultivar names (from cultivated variety) and can be added to a binomial or simply a generic name. To make them stand out from the purely botanical part of a name, they are enclosed in single quotation marks and are not written in italics, resulting in names likeMalva sylvestris ‘Primley Blue’ and + Laburnocytisus ‘Adamii’. Additionally, new cultivar names coined since 1959 should follow international rules and be in a modern language – i.e., they should not be Latin or latinised, as many were in the past – to make them stand out even more clearly. As with specific epithets, cultivar names should not be repeated within a genus, although it is easy to find historical examples where this has occurred.
Cultivars are often popularly referred to as varieties, which is fine if they have names like ‘Mavoureen Nesmith’ or ‘Techny Spider’, but could be confused with a botanical varietas if they are older, latinized names. Consistent use of the term cultivar is therefore helpful in promoting clarity when using plant names.

Group, Grex and Series
When dealing with some genera where there are a lot of cultivars or where a well-known cultivar becomes variable through poor selection of propagation material or gives rise to a lot of new ones through breeding work, it has been found useful to use a collective name, the cultivar-group name, to identify them. Such a name always includes the word Group and, when used in conjunction with a cultivar name, is enclosed in round brackets (never single quotation marks). For example, Actaea simplex(Atropurpurea Group) ‘Brunette’ is a distinct cultivar within a group of purple-leaved cultivars. It is also possible to recognise as a cultivar-group a species, subspecies or varietas no longer felt by botanists to be worthy of recognition as a separate entity when the whole range of variation in related plants is considered. Such a species becomes part of another species, and botanically its name becomes a synonym. However, its characteristics are often horticulturally significant and the transfer of its name to a cultivar-group is useful to gardeners. For example, whileRhododendron scintillans is no longer recognised as a separate species and is botanically ‘sunk’ into R. polycladum, it is recognised horticulturally as R. polycladum Scintillans Group.
In some plant groups, notably within orchids, where complex hybrid parentages are carefully recorded, the group system is further refined. Each hybrid is given a grex name (Latin for flock) which covers all offspring from that particular cross, however different they may be from one another. Individual cultivars may then be named and propagated by division or micropropagation. Although a grex is similar to a botanical hybrid in principal, backcrossing a member of a grex with one of its parents results in a new grex, with a new name, whereas backcrossing a hybrid makes no difference to the hybrid name. In constrast to groups, with grex names no brackets are used and grex is abbreviated to g. - for example, Pleione Shantung g. is a popular grex of hardy ground-living orchids while P. Shantung g. ‘Muriel Harberd’ is a particularly good cultivar, selected from the grex.
With seed-raised plants, particularly F1 hybrid flowers, series have become increasingly popular. A series is like a group in that it contains a number of similar cultivars, but it differs in being created specifically as a marketing device, with cultivars added to create a range of flower colours on plants of similar habit. The identities of individual cultivars are often undisclosed, and the individual colour elements may be represented by slightly different cultivars over the years. Series names are treated similarly to group names. Unfortunately, the term series also has a precise botanical usage, but one that is unlikely to affect gardeners.
Click to expand...
 
That still tells us nothing about a naming convention for our cultivar. Rob takes issue with things such as a 7 pot Primo due to it being crossed between two different cultivars within the same species. None of this will help these issues Rob brought up. I'll still be using x to denote hybrids. However, I'm willing to listen to what pertains to us, naming our cultivars. I don't want to add to more confusion. However, I don't look at the yellow 7 pot as a 7 pot. I suspect and treat it as a cross.
 
Edit: I'll read the second part you just put up.
 
By the rules above C. chinense x C. frutescens hybrids SHOULD be called either C. chinescens 'name' or  C. frutense 'name'. 
 
The rules do NOT address intervarietal offspring naming. That is something Robin is promoting for clarity's sake which is not part of the official ICPSrules. 
 
thegreenman said:
By the rules above C. chinense x C. frutescens hybrids SHOULD be called either C. chinescens 'name' or  C. frutense 'name'. 
 
The rules do NOT address intervarietal offspring naming. That is something Robin is promoting for clarity's sake which is not part of the official ICRA rules. 
Click to expand...
 
Aye, that's the naming convention I want to know. I appreciate you trying to help though. What I want is information on what Rob wants to use as a naming convention. If it's good, I'll use it. If not, I won't. Maybe this is something that needs to be discussed/debated in its own thread. 
 
Im guessing Rob wants to use something like The Grex rules. IF you considered the group terms  'Habanero' or 'Naga' or '7pot' to be similar to grexes, even though they aren't.
The common names for those groups have zero botanical standing, and the names often cover different species or hybrids under the same group such as aji or Habanero. 
 
 
In some plant groups, notably within orchids, where complex hybrid parentages are carefully recorded, the group system is further refined. Each hybrid is given a grex name (Latin for flock) which covers all offspring from that particular cross, however different they may be from one another. Individual cultivars may then be named and propagated by division or micropropagation. Although a grex is similar to a botanical hybrid in principal, backcrossing a member of a grex with one of its parents results in a new grex, with a new name, whereas backcrossing a hybrid makes no difference to the hybrid name. In constrast to groups, with grex names no brackets are used and grex is abbreviated to g. - for example, Pleione Shantung g. is a popular grex of hardy ground-living orchids while P. Shantung g. ‘Muriel Harberd’ is a particularly good cultivar, selected from the grex.
 
Just came across the Savina 7.
 
One of Judy's I think, and as the name would suggest (for the love of God don't haunt me Carl !!), quite simply Red Savina Habanero x 7 Pot.
 
Just a quick digression here - presuming the Primo is a Naga Morich x 7 Pot, and the Carolina Reaper is said to be a Naga Morich x Sweet Habanero, I would have imagined the Primo to have a higher SHU, but there you go - chilli breeding would seem to be, in some ways, "like a box of chocolates..." :shh:
 
Also, from what I read in this thread, "7 Pot" might just be as broad a name as "Sweet Habanero", so is there any wonder there has been so much discussion about the parentage of those two nuclear types ?!
 
Regards,
 
Tim
 
Okay, I just received an email reply from a botanist friend and author. She clarifies.
"The capsicum you describe is almost exactly as you wrote it with just a little punctuation. C. Annuum 'Early Jalapeno' x C. frutescens 'Tabasco'. This is the long form and explains the genealogy. But it gets complicated when one hybrid is crossed to another which is possible in some genera, of course considering that they must bear viable seed. If the person or entity that produces the cross wants to rename the new hybrid they have that right. NO ONE else has the right but if they don't, the trade will and does. The originator of a hybrid merely has to publish the name and photo in a trade journal or book - with genealogy to whatever extent possible.  Those that were named in my book for the first time are official or any nursery brochure will do. It would be nice if they were registered however, but if there is no organization for the group that can't be done. Few bother unless they want to patent a plant I suppose."
 
Wow teejay, that's interesting. If it's not a hybrid and the seeds produce stems like that, call it 7 pot Hulk! Is it your plant? That should be cloned, lol.
 
Hi Dulac,
 
Yes, my plant. I'm only guessing that it's not a hybrid because it was grown from 7 Pot seed as opposed to 7 Pot x whatever. Maybe there was a mixup ?
 
It's not a large plant, so I would be hesitant to cut anything off to clone, at least for the moment. But, it's starting to produce fruit so the results from that will be kept as seed for next season to see if it reproduces the same way.
 
I'll post photos of the fruit as well - perhaps that might indicate this isn't a 7 Pot at all ?!
 
Regards,
 
Tim
 
teejay said:
Hi Dulac,
 
Yes, my plant. I'm only guessing that it's not a hybrid because it was grown from 7 Pot seed as opposed to 7 Pot x whatever. Maybe there was a mixup ?
 
It's not a large plant, so I would be hesitant to cut anything off to clone, at least for the moment. But, it's starting to produce fruit so the results from that will be kept as seed for next season to see if it reproduces the same way.
 
I'll post photos of the fruit as well - perhaps that might indicate this isn't a 7 Pot at all ?!
 
Regards,
 
Tim
Click to expand...
 
I'm not sure what's going on with that plant. I don't think it's an indication that it's a hybrid. It's extremely abnormal growth for capsicum. It would be great to see if it's inheritable. I hope you keep that plant alive for years and clone it, heh. If it isn't inheritable, clones would be a good way to propagate it. I agree that you should wait to clone it.
 
I have made many crosses over the years... eg If I cross a 7pot/pod with say a Habanero Chocolate
It is a 7pot/pod x Habanero Chocolate f4 for example or 7pot/pod x Habanero Chocolate v3 f2, the v representing which phenotype (and there could be any amount as the generations exceed)
and the f representing the generation, when I get down to some phenotypes that are getting more like what I am wanting in the cross then I give it a code which lets me know in more details about the cross.... when I am coming close to the final outcome only then will I name it....
 
JungleRain said:
I have made many crosses over the years... eg If I cross a 7pot/pod with say a Habanero Chocolate
It is a 7pot/pod x Habanero Chocolate f4 for example or 7pot/pod x Habanero Chocolate v3 f2, the v representing which phenotype (and there could be any amount as the generations exceed)
and the f representing the generation, when I get down to some phenotypes that are getting more like what I am wanting in the cross then I give it a code which lets me know in more details about the cross.... when I am coming close to the final outcome only then will I name it....
Click to expand...
your Douglah X Mourga cross looks so evil.  Well done Grant.
 
A Fataluga?  Scorpalii?  Fatalion?  I'm open to suggestions!
 
11392795244_188b84c0c7_c.jpg
 
That's an excellent photo ! Almost like an exceprt from a restaurant menu (which one and what number do I call for a reservation :rofl: )
 
Moruga Fatalii perhaps ? ;)
 
Edit - thanks for the information greenman. Indeed I have now learnt that little bit more about what I am growing.
 
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