• If you have a question about commercial production or the hot sauce business, please post in The Food Biz.

tutorial Fermenting Peppers 101

[media]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207705311495339&set=a.10205130855735554.1073741825.1369249662&type=3&theater[/media]
 
GUYS. I HAVE MADE MY FIRST LACTOFERMENTED HOT SAUCE BY INSTRUCTION GIVEN ON THIS BLOG. THANK YOU VERY MUCH :)
 
I HAVE A QUESTION... MY HOT SAUCE ISMAYBE TO SALTY OR ACIDIC. HOW CAN I MAKE IT LITTLE LESS ACIDIC. I PUT 4% OF SALT IN MY MASH AND THAT IT ??
HELP HELP :)
 
 
 
Are you saying it's finished fermenting and now tastes too acidic and salty?

If too salty, cut up some potatoes and soak them in the sauce. They will draw some salt out then remove them before processing.

If too acidic, try cutting the sauce with some non acidic ingredients that match your flavor profile, e.g. carrott, onion, etc. Sweet also balances acidity, but changes profile.
 
That is the problme when you mash it in your food proccesor ,,all salt goes to the sauce. I would rather do a method when i chop peppers and keep them submerged under the brine. im confused now :(
 
you are saying i should next time add more carrots for example in my fermentation ??
 
Even if submerged you would still need salt to stop bad bacteria from growing. The amount of salt used is personal preference. The less salt you use the better chances of bad bacteria and more careful you have to be with sanitation/contamination. Adversely the more salt you use the slower your fermentation is because good bacteria (lactobacillus) is also hindered by it. If you can keep your mash submerged (try cabbage leaf or cheese cloth weighed down with sanitized glass beads) and use a closed system with air lock you can cut the salt way down. Also using wine instead of water will allow much less salt. Use 2% salt (by weight of mash) with a little white sweet wine instead of water.

ETA: I am new at this myself, so if any others on here have comments please add them.

And no not saying add more carrot to fermentation, that would only be to "fix" what you don't like afterwards. If too much salt or acid is issue.

Another thought on the acidity, don't let ferment as long or cut down on sugars if using open top method. Sugar can turn to vinegar if in an oxygen rich environment.
 
mmm interesting idea.. Im satisfacted with everything accept the salinity..i put 3,5 % salt in my mash, i think that is good percent if you definitely dont want any bacteria activity and mold appearing. In today batch i made 1,5 kg of mash and put 55 g of salt ,,is around 4%. But i past batch i put lime juice,, maybe that had some affect. But i will try with 2%,maybe 2,5%. 
 
How will alchocol (vine) affect the fermentation

And i will prefer the submerging method  cause some part of brine i can throw away
 
2.5% will be fine.

The vino will not effect the fermentation so much as the flavor, but will make it harder for bad things to grow allowing for a little extra security when using less salt, but is not necessary.

The brine is part of your sauce. Salt through the process of osmosis replaces the water in the cells of your food with the liquid in the brine. Throwing out the brine is throwing out good flavor. Once you let everything sit together the salt is same.

Are you maybe adding too much brine?

I make mash, weigh 2% of mash weight in salt, add to mash, put mash in jar and pack down, cover mash with 1/2" to 1" of liquid and cover.
 
Hello everyone this is my first post on the site and I'm looking for a little guidance and reassurance. Found some great information in this thread and wish I had come across this web site before embarking on my fermentation experiments.

A little background info, I live in the UK and this year I've started growing some chills indoors and in containers, luckily I have a good south facing room with a huge long window at work and a very understanding boss, which is great. I have 21 plants and 8 different varieties which have done pretty well considering we haven't had a great summer.

I had a little bit of a glut a few weeks ago when a whole load of chilis ripened at the same time and after canning some sauces and drying a lot I thought I would try and find another way of preserving and came across the fermenting method. I read a few articles and one in particular caught my attention that used a Reisling wine so I made two different mashes one with Fresnos and one with Paper Lanterns using a 2%, kosher, salt mix and topping up with the wine until it was just and inch over the top. The Fresno mix did produce some bubbles after a day or so but the Paper Lantern didn't really do anything. Incidentally I'm using mason jars with airlock lids.

I had another type of chili mature a few weeks after I started the other batches, this time I used the same 2% salt but I just topped up with mineral water. This jar has been bubbling away very successfully for the past couple of weeks and showing all the typical signs or a good ferment, layer separation, bubbles e.t.c. but the other two are really just sitting there doing nothing much. I have even taken some of the juice out the fermenting one and added it to the other jars, separated whey from some live yogurt and bought a starter culture all without any great success. They might bubble away for a day but then they go back to being still again.

Obviously since starting the little experiment I have read about sulphides in the wine stopping the lacto fermentation and this certainly seems to be what is happening but the two jars that I'm talking about now have a very broken down soupy mash without having any adverse smells or growth.

So my questions are;

1) Do you think they are fermenting?
2) Should I just leave them to get on with it?
3) Should I strain the wine off and see if I can get them to start again with just a normal brine solution?
4) Is there anything I could do with the failed mash so as not to waste it?

Sorry for the long winded first post and any advice will be greatly recieved.

Regards, Allan.
 
JohnsMyName said:
I make mash, weigh 2% of mash weight in salt, add to mash, put mash in jar and pack down, cover mash with 1/2" to 1" of liquid and cover.
 
what liquid? plain water? vinegar?
 
Preserved lemons are a lacto-fermented food as well and are insanely delicious when cooked with chicken and garlic and rosemary. So, I started my ferment of a mash of ghosts, reapers, garlic, onion, and some mango (and salt and some water) with a tablespoon of the preserved lemon "curd." The mash began fermenting in a couple days at room temp and I had to pour off some as it grew and grew in the jar up into the airlock. Keeping that as a starter for the next batch. I just wish I had not used onion. I don't like the raw, fermenting onion smell. I'm fermenting to add a different flavor profile to my sauce after I cook it with more fresh peppers, more mango, and some persimmon as well as some vinegar. Hoping the onion odor will soften with the cooking; otherwise, I'm leaving it out of the next batch. I'm not fermenting for the probiotics, but a more complex flavor.
 
I'm a brand new member of THP. I have spent the better part of the last few days reading all of the great stuff here. I have made two batches of fermented sauce so far and I am sure I am addicted! My first batch I made using a recipe I got from the internet for "Louisiana style hot sauce". I prepped my peppers, onion, garlic and brine and put it in my 1 gallon glass jar. The bubbles stopped in about 10 days so I Took my stick blender to it, then put it through my food mill. I put some in a few bottles and let my friends and co-workers try. Very mild and a little salty. Second batch I used Jalapenos and stuck to the same recipe and technique. This time I reduced the brine from 5% to 4%. Much better! Very nicely hot and flavorful. After discovering the site and reading the information here, I have more questions about equipment and process than I can ask here at this time. I will ask a few however. My recipe I found on line had me cover the jar with cheesecloth. Most people here seem to use airlocks. Which is better? After the fermentation bubbles stop, should I then "age" my mash in the fridge for a few weeks? If I put it in the fridge, should I take the airlock off and put a lid on it? I am interested to hear more about the processes and techniques that more experienced fermenters use. I am a chef by trade so I understand how to work with food in a safe manner and I have good sanitation practices down. Any feedback on equipment and techniques will be greatly appreciated!!
 
Radagast63 said:
My recipe I found on line had me cover the jar with cheesecloth. Most people here seem to use airlocks. Which is better? After the fermentation bubbles stop, should I then "age" my mash in the fridge for a few weeks? If I put it in the fridge, should I take the airlock off and put a lid on it? I am interested to hear more about the processes and techniques that more experienced fermenters use. I am a chef by trade so I understand how to work with food in a safe manner and I have good sanitation practices down. Any feedback on equipment and techniques will be greatly appreciated!!
 
Welcome to THP Radagast63!  You've found a wealth of information here.  :)
 
I prefer to airlock instead of cheesecloth as it limits what can get into the ferment.  I do use cheesecloth when fermenting kombucha and cukes though.
 
Aging is purely personal preference.  I like the extra time aging as I feel it helps the flavors 'marry' better than if you just blend and go without aging.
 
If you DO age it is not necessary to keep an airlock on in the fridge - fermentation will not stop all the way but it will slow down greatly.  
 
Search for threads by Rocketman and Chili Monsta - the two of them (along with many other helpful people hereabouts) really helped me when I first started.  
 
RocketMan said:
I've had so many requests for this I thought it would be easier to make a thread of it. Chili Monsta and I put it together and tried to cover as much as we could think of to cover. If you have questions feel free to ask.

Fermenting Peppers 101
By RocketMan and Chili Monsta

Starters

In fermenting peppers we use microaerophilic bacteria called Lactobacillus. The Lactobacillus eats the sugars in the mash then poops Lactic Acid and farts CO2. The Lactic Acid which is produced lowers the PH of the mash making it an acidic environment in which other bacteria such as botuline toxin, which would contribute to ruining the mash, cannot exist. As such the use of acids like as vinegar and lime or lemon juice are not needed but may be used in a sauce for the flavor.

There are several different ways to start a pepper mash fermenting and all will result in the same finished product. I will focus on 3 of them here.

A couple of things in common to all methods are that once the lid is on and the fermentation is going gas (CO2) is given off. Some people like to attach an Airlock to the lid so that the gas can escape while others just place the lid on loosely. Either way the idea is to prevent Oxygen from getting in and maintain the CO2. This helps to prevent any bad bacteria from getting in. The fermentation jar cannot be stuffed full of peppers or you will have pepper juice everywhere. The peppers will rise and fall within the liquid they are fermenting in initially so some space, say 1 to 1 ½ inches needs to be left in the top of the fermentation jar to allow for the pepper to rise. Some like to add weights to hold the peppers down. Some of the cheese cloth with glass beads will work very well for this.

1. Wild Fermentation. For a wild fermentation you are going to collect the wild yeast that is in the air and use it to ferment the peppers. To do this you first need to add enough salt to the mash so that the bad bacteria cant infect your mash before the good bacteria get going. Typically this is somewhere between 6 and 10 percent of weight. Some add a little Ascorbic Acid as well to retard mold. Place your mash into a container and cover the top with several layers of Cheese Cloth to keep out any dirt but to allow the bacteria to get in. Once you see that mash bubbling away you can loosely add a lid and allow the fermentation to continue.


2. Whey Starter. Whey is the liquid that is seen in a tub of yogurt when it is allowed to sit for a while. The whey is collected as shown in the pictures here. Thanks Chili Monsta.
The whey is then added to the pepper mash and helps to kick start the fermentation process. Less salt is needed in these mashes as there is no delay waiting for the Lactobacillus to be collected and a good fermentation can be seen within a couple of hours.

clip_image001.jpg


clip_image002.jpg


clip_image003.jpg


3. Sourdough Starter. Some like to use the hooch from a sourdough starter. This is the method I use. As with the Whey method the hooch is added to the mash and there is less of a salt requirement. Fermentation can be seen starting within a couple of hours. I like this method best as I dont have to buy a tub of yogurt each time I want to start some peppers and I get to enjoy some of the best homemade bread around. I have included a very simple recipe for making a sourdough starter that can be used within 2 weeks to start some pepper fermenting or making bread.

Hooch

clip_image004.jpg


4. Other Starters. The juice from Sauerkraut and Kim Chi can also be used to start fermentation.

The Mash

A note here on Mashes, Mash as used here is a generic term. While a true mash has been ground into small bits you can also have a successful fermentation just choping the ingredients into small pieces, smaller than 1 inch square (2.58 cm). This is handy for those who dont have Kitchen Food Processors or other means of easily reducing the ingredients to small bits. If you are using chopped ingredients it would be good to plan on a longer fermentation time to allow the bacteria to work on the bigger pieces say, extending it another 2 weeks.

Peppers are naturally low in sugars and as fermentation works from the sugars can be hard to start. Many like to ferment just the pepper in their mash while others like to add the other ingredients. I typically mash all of the ingredients of a sauce recipe so that there are more sugars for the bacteria to work on. Most all recipes will include Carrots, Onion, and Garlic. With these added there will be ample sugars for a good fermentation.

Setting up the Fermentation jar. Using the above ingredients, shredded the carrots and ran all of the peppers with the seeds and ribs if you want the added heat, onion and garlic, through a Food Processor then put it all into a glass jar big enough to hold it all. Add the Starter and gave it a stir. Dissolve 2 tablespoons salt (I have High Blood Pressure and use a low amount of salt in my diet, for normal fermenters this should be in the 6 to 8 percent by weight range) into 2 cups warm water (I needed to add some water to the ingredients while in the food processor to get them moving so this was all I needed) and poured it over the top till all veggies are under water and to within an Inch of the top. A word here about salt. Pickling salt is the salt of choice here as it is just salt. Other salts such as kosher salt include an anti-caking ingredient and may have Iodide. While these will not harm the fermentation or the consumer they may change the look of the final product.

Fermentation time. I would typically not run a fermentation for less than 30 days. Mine usually go for 45 to 90 days. Now, that said there are some that will let them go for years. Tabasco is reputed to ferment their peppers for a 3 year period. The time you decede to go with is totally up to you.

Fermentation is complete.
This is the point where cleanliness becomes your best friend. Everything that touches your sauce now needs to be sanitized. This is easily accomplished using unscented bleach and water. Using the big pot you plan to boil the sauce in fill it with COLD water, hot water should never be used for this, and a couple of tablespoons of bleach. Allow everything that will touch the sauce to soak for 15 minutes then place them into an area you have designated as your clean zone. Next comes your bottles, caps and reducers. These can be run through your dishwasher with the heated dry turned on. When done place them into the clean zone.

It is now time to make some sauce. Pour all of the contents from the fermentation jar into a big pot and bring it to a boil for 10 minutes and then reduce it to a simmer for 45 minutes. Run it through a blender in batches and then back into the pot for a second simmer. Bring it back to a biol for 10 minutes and then simmer for 45 minutes again.
Run it through the blender a second time and then through a fine wire strainer to remove seed, skin and unwanted parts for the sauce. Bring  the sauce back to a boil the reduce to 195 Degrees F for 15 minutes and bottle. then carefully funnel into the bottles. Add a reducer and a cap and place it upside down for another 15 minutes to allow the caps to sterilize.
Other.

Helpful Links.

Fermenting pickles and peppers
http://www.grist.org...ing-made-simple

Steps to fermenting peppers
http://www.nathaliel...uce-raw-tabasco

Several good recipes and instructions
http://nourishedkitc...i-sauce-recipe/

Get Cultured (Nourished Kitchen free e-book)
http://issuu.com/nou...howFlipBtn=true

Bob Hurt Hab Mash
http://www.scribd.co...h-and-Hot-Sauce

Nice fermentation blog
http://okanagandaily...asco-sauce.html

Q/A about mash process
http://en.allexperts...pper-mash-1.htm

Kitchen Gardens blog/ 5 step HS recipe
http://kitchengarden...r-own-hot-sauce

A very simple to make a starter.

Small russet potato
2 Cups Flour
2 Cups Water
1 packet (3 tsp) Active Dry Yeast

Put the whole potato into a pot with enough water to cook the potato down to mush. Once it is falling apart put it into a blender with 2 cups of the water. Its ok to add water if there is not enough left and blend until its smooth. Let cool till warm and pour into the container you r going to hold it in. Add 2 cups flour and the dry yeast. Mix well but lumps are ok as they will work out. Place this on a pie pan or something that will hold anything that boils over.

A good working starter after feeding

clip_image005.jpg


For the next 3 days every morning add 2 Tbs Flour and 2 Tbs Water. After the 3rd day just let it work for another 3 days. When it starts to settle clean the container if it boiled over any and place into the fridge for another 6 days. Now you should have a good amount of hooch built up and be ready to ferment some peppers. Youll only need a couple of tablespoons of hooch for a quart jar of peppers, I typically run a gallon jar at a time and use ¼ cup, the rest I mix back into the starter. After you have the peppers going its time to make the bread. This is a simple recipe I use for a San Francisco style Sourdough bread. Its great toasted for breakfast or sliced in half for a Sub sandwich or a Panini.

And since you now have a good Sourdough starter
Sourdough Bread

Ingredients

4 3/4 cups bread flour
3 tablespoons white sugar
2 1/2 teaspoons salt
1 (.25 ounce) package active dry yeast
1 cup warm milk
2 tablespoons margarine, softened
1 1/2 cups sourdough starter
1 extra large egg
1 tablespoon water

Directions

In a large bowl, combine 1 cup flour, sugar, salt, and dry yeast. Add milk and softened butter or margarine. Stir in starter. Mix in up to 3 3/4 cups flour gradually, you may need more depending on your climate.
Turn dough out onto a floured surface, and knead for 8 to 10 minutes. Place in a greased bowl, turn once to oil surface, and cover. Allow to rise for 1 hour, or until doubled in volume.
Punch down, and let rest 15 minutes. Shape into loaves. Place on a greased baking pan. Allow to rise for 1 hour, or until doubled.
Brush egg wash over tops of loaves.
Bake at 375 degrees for 30 minutes, or till done as it may take another 10 to 20 minutes if you use stoneware like I do.
 
EDIT: The ideal temperature for fermenting is between 80 and 95 degrees F for Lactobacillus.
ON this sourdough hooch the 1/4 cup it is the flour sourdough mix in the bowl or do you some how strain liquid out of it Thanks for your time
 
Hi folks again :)
Since I master the fermenting process, now i wanna pick my favourite flavour ...soi i would appricieate if you tell me your experience with :
1. HABANERO RED, YELLOW
2.HABANERO CHOCOLATE
3.JAMAICAN HOT CHOCOLATE
4.RED SAVINA
5.SCORPION
6. FATALII
So if you just try it please make your comment here or in my inbox  :)
 
While kefir works and I haven't gone through the 40 pages on this thread. Let it be said that kefir and great veggie bacteria are quite different.
 
Radagast63 said:
. My recipe I found on line had me cover the jar with cheesecloth. Most people here seem to use airlocks. Which is better? After the fermentation bubbles stop, should I then "age" my mash in the fridge for a few weeks? If I put it in the fridge, should I take the airlock off and put a lid on it? I am interested to hear more about the processes and techniques that more experienced fermenters use. I am a chef by trade so I understand how to work with food in a safe manner and I have good sanitation practices down. Any feedback on equipment and techniques will be greatly appreciated!!
 
Welcome to THP and the world of Fermenting, 
 
To explain this you have to understand that there are 2 kinds of fermentation, closed and open or some call it wild fermentation. With open fermentation the vessel is covered with cheese cloth to keep insects, dust and larger particles out but to allow air to pass through so the the wild LAB can get it in. This is done often with Cabbage to make Sauerkraut, some Kimchis and other things. The problem with it is it can also allow bad bacteria to get in there and spoil the whole mess. 
 
With closed fermentation the vessel is closed off from the outside air and as the LAB do their thing eating the sugars, peeing lactic acid and farting CO2 the air is eventually all pushed out and an anaerobic environment is created where the bad bacteria cannot exist. Once that happens our mash is now protected, well unless you open the vessel. This is why most of us use closed fermentation, we can put everything in there and let it go for 3 to 6 months before putting it into the fridge to let it go longer. I typically let my ferments go for either 45 days or 90 days depending on the amount of sugars present in the mash.
 
Hope this helps to explain :)
 
Cheers,
RM
 
Has anyone ever fermented a puree? I made a puree this weekend with all my yellow super hots and a bunch of "almost ripe, but still green" pods. I added 3.2% salt, sealed and added an airlock. Hopefully it works...not much activity yet. I'm wondering if the density of the mash will affect the ferment. It's some really thick stuff. 
 
Back
Top