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tutorial Fermenting Peppers 101
- Thread starter RocketMan
- Start date
Making a sauce from fresh hot peppers typically requires an acidic additive which acts as a stabilizer, while sauces made from the fermentation process develops these acids over time (acetic acids develop from the biological processes). In my opinion, fresh sauces made from vinegars and citrus juices have a much more crisp, sharp and immediate flavor, oftentimes lending themselves to greater heat from the capsaicin being relatively unaltered chemically. Fermented sauces have a much more developed and nuanced flavor. Like fine wine that transitions from one note to the next, fermented sauces lead your mouth on a culinary adventure as different flavors and accords come to light. In addition, freshly acidified sauces are much more sharp while fermented sauces tend to be somewhat more soft and mellow on the palette, as well as the heat being a bit more subdued.
One man's opinion! Hope this helps!
Oh and I also almost forgot the most important part! Fermented sauces (assuming they haven't been pasteurized) have wonderful healing and nutritious probiotic qualities!
One man's opinion! Hope this helps!
Oh and I also almost forgot the most important part! Fermented sauces (assuming they haven't been pasteurized) have wonderful healing and nutritious probiotic qualities!
+1 ....I can especially appreciate your commentary "....fermented sauces lead your mouth on a culinary adventure..."hotstepper said:
Personally,that's what I enjoy most about fermented foods of all kinds, and why I'm a fermenting junkie so to speak.
Very intuitive and well said hotstepper....just another mans opinion.
CM
Hi everyone,
Long time lover of chillies first time poster.
I have been reading through the posts on the site and have a somewhat unclear view of how to ferment. The OPs guide was good but I'm after a few more specifics.
For instance,
I have 3 Kg of Trinidad, Naga and Bhut combined and would like to make a sauce. My question is, how much (ratio)salt, vineger, garlic, onion and citric acid etc do I need for my batch according to the volume of chillies I have.
Long time lover of chillies first time poster.
I have been reading through the posts on the site and have a somewhat unclear view of how to ferment. The OPs guide was good but I'm after a few more specifics.
For instance,
I have 3 Kg of Trinidad, Naga and Bhut combined and would like to make a sauce. My question is, how much (ratio)salt, vineger, garlic, onion and citric acid etc do I need for my batch according to the volume of chillies I have.
Greetings ThaJokerThaJoker said:
The amount of garlic and onion depends on your personal taste/preference.
I personally don't add vinegar very often,and have never used citric acid.... as the "lacto fermentation" process normally produces adequate pH levels.
As for the amount of salt to use:
Salt
Historically, salt was used to preserve foods before refrigeration. Vegetables ferment better under the protection of salt dissolved in water or brine. Salt pulls out the moisture in food, denying bacteria the aqueous solution they need to live and grow except for the desired salt-tolerantLactobacilli strains. By suppressing the growth of other bacteria and mold, salt provides a slower fermentation process that is perfect for cultured vegetables that are to be stored for longer periods of time. When using salt without a starter, you are allowing the natural bacteria that exist on the vegetables to do the fermenting.
A benefit of salt is that it hardens the pectins in the vegetables leaving them crunchy and enhancing the flavor. The more salt you use, the slower the fermentation process and the saltier the taste. It is easy to salt too much, so we recommend salting to taste unless you want a longer storage time. (Please note, excessive use of salt can halt the culturing process by killing virtually all the microorganisms.) Many people prefer to use more salt with some ferments such as pickles and sauerkraut and less with ferments like ketchup, mayonnaise, or fruit.
Preparations with less salt will ferment faster and you will be more likely to see some white film on the surface that you can simply scrape off. It is likely to be an accumulation of yeast bodies. If some gets into your batch of vegetables, it won’t hurt to eat it. Salt-free ferments are actually more biodiverse but can result in mushy vegetables. For a salt-free ferment you can substitute celery juice or seaweed, but they will not prevent the mushy texture.
Source:
http://www.culturesforhealth.com/compare-salt-whey-starter-culture-ferment-vegetables-fruits-condiments
And here's a couple posts from earlier discussions on this topic that might be helpful in answering your question regarding salt...
Measurement my volume:
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/23146-fermenting-peppers-101/page-2#entry481755
And by weight:
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/23146-fermenting-peppers-101/page-2#entry481769
Good luck
CM
[SIZE=10pt]Probably not.[/SIZE]ThaJoker said:
[SIZE=10pt]Lactic acid is the dominant acid created by lactic-acid bacteria, during fermentation. Although acetic acid (vinegar) is also created, the proper ratio of lactic:acetic acids needs to be in a 4:1 ratio.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Adding vinegar to a lacto-fermentation brine, disrupts that ratio, throwing the lacto-fermentation out of balance.[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]The lactic-acid bacteria will be stunted, unable to develop the correct texture, flavor, or natural-preservative qualities that are desirable in lacto-fermentation.[/SIZE]
There’s really no need to use vinegar as a preservative in a properly lacto-fermented food. The only reason to add vinegar is if the flavor is desired, and it should be added after the fermentation is complete and the fermented foods are going to cooked (pasteurized).
[SIZE=10pt]CM[/SIZE]
Probably not.
Lactic acid is the dominant acid created by lactic-acid bacteria, during fermentation. Although acetic acid (vinegar) is also created, the proper ratio of lactic:acetic acids needs to be in a 4:1 ratio.
Adding vinegar to a lacto-fermentation brine, disrupts that ratio, throwing the lacto-fermentation out of balance. The lactic-acid bacteria will be stunted, unable to develop the correct texture, flavor, or natural-preservative qualities that are desirable in lacto-fermentation.
There’s really no need to use vinegar as a preservative in a properly lacto-fermented food. The only reason to add vinegar is if the flavor is desired, and it should be added after the fermentation is complete and the fermented foods are going to cooked (pasteurized).
CM
Ok cheers. Your quite obviously a knowledgeable man, I thankyou for your advice.
So what now. I mean this is almost 3 liters of Trinidad mash. Should I blend it more then cook it down for the suggested 10 mins, put it in a sterilized bottle?
Lactic acid is the dominant acid created by lactic-acid bacteria, during fermentation. Although acetic acid (vinegar) is also created, the proper ratio of lactic:acetic acids needs to be in a 4:1 ratio.
Adding vinegar to a lacto-fermentation brine, disrupts that ratio, throwing the lacto-fermentation out of balance. The lactic-acid bacteria will be stunted, unable to develop the correct texture, flavor, or natural-preservative qualities that are desirable in lacto-fermentation.
There’s really no need to use vinegar as a preservative in a properly lacto-fermented food. The only reason to add vinegar is if the flavor is desired, and it should be added after the fermentation is complete and the fermented foods are going to cooked (pasteurized).
CM
Ok cheers. Your quite obviously a knowledgeable man, I thankyou for your advice.
So what now. I mean this is almost 3 liters of Trinidad mash. Should I blend it more then cook it down for the suggested 10 mins, put it in a sterilized bottle?
It may still ferment. I was making a sauce for my wife. It was mostly ground powder, vinegar and salt. lIke 1/4 of a mason qt. jar powder, salt but then I threw in a bunch of frozen peppers to fill up the bottle and then added vinegar and blended. It all stayed fairly suspended for a couple of weeks and then I started having separation like when there is fermentation going on. I didn't think it would ferment but apparently it did anyway.
A yeast kham is correct in gray (something dark)?
Yesterday, check my enzymes and one of them has a greyish colored layer suspicious. For the mash dejajo looks good, but the yeast be darker than my previous ferments.
remembering, to begin to ferment, had doubts about having put salt or have forgotten to add salt.
My fear is forgetting salt and having to dispose the ferment.
then I upload pics
Yesterday, check my enzymes and one of them has a greyish colored layer suspicious. For the mash dejajo looks good, but the yeast be darker than my previous ferments.
remembering, to begin to ferment, had doubts about having put salt or have forgotten to add salt.
My fear is forgetting salt and having to dispose the ferment.
then I upload pics
ThaJoker said:
If it were "my" 3 liters of Trinidad mash, I wouldn't want run the risk of possibly having to toss it out down the road, either because of spoilage or poor flavor.
So I would cook it with enough vinegar to obtain a safe pH level and bottle it up.
But as I said that's what I would do if it was in my kitchen.
Acid is acid....lactic or acetic...and too much acid stops the lacto bacteria from multiplying and doing their thing in the proper order they are supposed to....and will directly affect the quality of the end product.
CM
You might want to check out this discussion topic about yeast and molds.cypresshill1973 said:
There are several really good photo's of each that Rocket Man posted.
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/47444-why-your-ferment-grew-mold-what-to-doand-how-to-prevent-it/?p=1003009
By forgetting salt....my guess is that you very possibly have a mold problem on your hands, which is never a good thing.
CM
.....
Here's a short overview of what happens once you put the lid on your ferment vessel:
Lacto fermentation of vegetables is a complex microbiological process that applies to all fermented foods, and consists of different microorganisms that each have a crucial role and strict sequence.
During fermentation glucose (sugar) is converted to about 50% lactic acid, 25% acetic acid and ethyl alcohol, and 25% carbon dioxide
Stage 1
Leuconostoc mesenteroides - they are the smallest and start the fermentation first producing around 0.25 to 0.3% lactic acid. They are heterofermenters, this means that they produce different compounds such as lactic acid, acetic acid (vinegar), ethyl alcohol, carbon dioxide (soda gas) and mannitol. The last one is a bitter flavored compound which is metabolized later by Lactobacillus plantarum.
If the temperature is higher than 72° F (22° C) they might not grow and that would be detrimental to the flavor (bitterness).
In about 2 days Leuconostoc mesenteroides will produce 0.3% lactic acid and this increased acidity will restrict its growth. Nevertheless, the enzymes it produced will continue to develop the flavor.(approx. 2-3 days)
Stage 2
Lactobacillus plantarum - this strain takes over the production of lactic acid from Leuconostoc mesenteroides and continues fermenting until an acidity level of 1.5 to 2% is achieved. L. plantarum will ferment at temperatures higher than 72° F (22° C) and it can grow at higher acidity levels. It will ferment at lower temperatures as well, but at much slower rate. Lactobacillus plantarum is the most popular lactic acid bacteria strain and it ferments vegetables ( cabbage, pickles,carrots,peppers), cheese’s and even meat. This bacteria is a homofermenter which means that it produces one compound only. It consumes sugar and produces lactic acid which imparts acidic taste to fermented foods. At the end of this stage the vegetables have an acceptable quality and can be eaten or canned. If there is enough sugar left, the fermentation will continue until all sugar supply is exhausted.(approx. 12-13 days)
Stage 3
Lactobacillus pentoaceticus ( L.brevis) - continue fermenting until an acidity level of 2.5 - 3% is obtained. When there is no more sugar left in the vegetables the fermentation comes to the end. (approx. 3-4 days)
Any change to the above cycles of lactic acid production will alter the taste and quality of the ferment. As long as the proper amount of salt is added and the recommended temperatures are adhered to, the three bacteria strains will ferment in the proper sequence.
There is a limit how much lactic acid can be produced. Once the sugar supply is exhausted, lactic acid bacteria stop growing. If more sugar is added the fermentation will continue longer and more lactic acid will be produced. That would result in increased acidity and a very sour flavor. Eventually the acidity level will be so high that lactic acid bacteria will not survive.
Source:
Handbook of Fermented Functional Foods by Edward Farnsworth
Here's a short overview of what happens once you put the lid on your ferment vessel:
Lacto fermentation of vegetables is a complex microbiological process that applies to all fermented foods, and consists of different microorganisms that each have a crucial role and strict sequence.
During fermentation glucose (sugar) is converted to about 50% lactic acid, 25% acetic acid and ethyl alcohol, and 25% carbon dioxide
Stage 1
Leuconostoc mesenteroides - they are the smallest and start the fermentation first producing around 0.25 to 0.3% lactic acid. They are heterofermenters, this means that they produce different compounds such as lactic acid, acetic acid (vinegar), ethyl alcohol, carbon dioxide (soda gas) and mannitol. The last one is a bitter flavored compound which is metabolized later by Lactobacillus plantarum.
If the temperature is higher than 72° F (22° C) they might not grow and that would be detrimental to the flavor (bitterness).
In about 2 days Leuconostoc mesenteroides will produce 0.3% lactic acid and this increased acidity will restrict its growth. Nevertheless, the enzymes it produced will continue to develop the flavor.(approx. 2-3 days)
Stage 2
Lactobacillus plantarum - this strain takes over the production of lactic acid from Leuconostoc mesenteroides and continues fermenting until an acidity level of 1.5 to 2% is achieved. L. plantarum will ferment at temperatures higher than 72° F (22° C) and it can grow at higher acidity levels. It will ferment at lower temperatures as well, but at much slower rate. Lactobacillus plantarum is the most popular lactic acid bacteria strain and it ferments vegetables ( cabbage, pickles,carrots,peppers), cheese’s and even meat. This bacteria is a homofermenter which means that it produces one compound only. It consumes sugar and produces lactic acid which imparts acidic taste to fermented foods. At the end of this stage the vegetables have an acceptable quality and can be eaten or canned. If there is enough sugar left, the fermentation will continue until all sugar supply is exhausted.(approx. 12-13 days)
Stage 3
Lactobacillus pentoaceticus ( L.brevis) - continue fermenting until an acidity level of 2.5 - 3% is obtained. When there is no more sugar left in the vegetables the fermentation comes to the end. (approx. 3-4 days)
Any change to the above cycles of lactic acid production will alter the taste and quality of the ferment. As long as the proper amount of salt is added and the recommended temperatures are adhered to, the three bacteria strains will ferment in the proper sequence.
There is a limit how much lactic acid can be produced. Once the sugar supply is exhausted, lactic acid bacteria stop growing. If more sugar is added the fermentation will continue longer and more lactic acid will be produced. That would result in increased acidity and a very sour flavor. Eventually the acidity level will be so high that lactic acid bacteria will not survive.
Source:
Handbook of Fermented Functional Foods by Edward Farnsworth
That's a good sign that it is.
Here some pics of the suspect ferment. Although looking at it better, I think is in good condition.
It looks like you have some bubbling activity taking place. That being said, a ferment that spoils can also generates some bubbles.
But the dark areas just below the surface certainly appears to be a mold growth and would give me cause for concern.
The yeast growth is much lighter in color....sometimes totally white.
Do you have any patches of dark growth on the surface ?
And were you ever able to recall if you actually put any salt in the ferment ?
CM
But the dark areas just below the surface certainly appears to be a mold growth and would give me cause for concern.
The yeast growth is much lighter in color....sometimes totally white.
Do you have any patches of dark growth on the surface ?
And were you ever able to recall if you actually put any salt in the ferment ?
CM
Unable to remember if you add salt. The question remains.
The ferment has been very active bubble during the first month. And I discovered this darker layer recently. First two months there was no layer above.
this ferment have 90 days to start
The ferment has been very active bubble during the first month. And I discovered this darker layer recently. First two months there was no layer above.
this ferment have 90 days to start