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Not Naga Viper But Genuine Testing!


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#1 Habanero500

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 06:29 PM

Now I am not a regular poster on here. But please all of you hear me out. Cmpman, Alabama Jack and Potawie I have the utmost respect for all your knowledge and experience on superhots. So what I write here I ask you to pass along on all the Forums that speak on this Naga Viper Topic. What I am going to tell you was being kept secret because we wanted to do this Record holder thing right. No buzz and no hype. Last year Dave De Witt approached me about Superhots. I sent him a Trinidad sample of Scorpion and he had it tested. This began it all. Dave De Witt contacted his friend of 20 yrs Marlin Bensinger who is North America's foremost expert on Capsaicin Extraction and testing. Marlin is the guy who major spice companies contact to do analytical testing on pungency before they go out and buy 500,000 pounds of Paprika or habaneros. He also works closely with those in the Pepper spray industry.Because Marlin is in charge also of large fields of chiles in New Mexico. Marlin has personal labs in both Texas and Florida. Now I don't have to tell you who Dave De Witt is I hope. Dave is the man behind this. My job was to supply plants and seeds of superhots to Marlin and also grow them here in San Diego for samples. I also got dried samples directly from Trinidad as well.

Now this was going to be kept quiet until we had application in at Guinness. Over this past growing season we have tested the following in multiple samples not just once like Gerald. Trinidad 7 Pot Red variety 4 types (elongated pod, Brain like pod, Sr strain and Jonah), Yellow 7 pod (THSC strain), Douglah (two seed sources), Naga Morich, Yellow Bhut, Chocolate Bhut, Trinidad Scorpion (similar to Butch T or small pod) and Moruga Scorpion. We did not test red Bhut because Marlin has done that so many times for clients. And just for fun we wanted to know how Fatalii, Red Fatalii, Devil's Tongue (yellow, Red & Choc) came in even though we knew they were not contenders. Now we took pods during rainy and dry periods. Took pods from single plants and groups of plants. Made samples of single pods and composite of groups of pods. And of course ran multiple tests on each species. Now a little education here for you. When we all cut pods open or taste test them the strong smell that makes you cough or burn that hits you right away is not the true indicator of a peppers pungency. So if some of say for example that a Brain Strain or Douglah hit you the hardest it does not mean it's Capsaicin. It may be the terpines which are another compound in peppers. We still don't know about Terpines because the food industry does not care about them. Just thought I would throw this in.

Okay so now after Marlin doing lots of testing we have had 4 varieties come ahead of the Bhut Jolokia. And they are......Douglah, Jonah, Scorpion and Moruga Scorpion. Out of these 4 we picked two that consistently had the highest heat levels. We then made a composite sample of both and re-tested and then sent a portion of that sample to a high end Agricultural lab in Texas as an Independent 3rd party test. This lab does pungency testing for the chile industry so they know what they are doing. Not just a University like Warwick that can HCPL. Any college can do this but does not have the experience and technology of the Capsaicin and Spice industry. We now wait for our results. If they are close to ours we submit. We are doing this the right way. Bosland's test scored over 1,001,000. His two samples sent to Independent labs came in around 800,000 and 900,000. Still the old record of 577,000 was beaten so highest result was published. We on the other hand want our 3rd party test to be close to our tests. So we are raising the standard. The single Naga Viper test at a sub standard facility is spreading through the media. Now we must talk to the media instead of waiting. Dave De Witt knows I am writing to all of you. I ask that you tell others that a true test is going on. Please support us. The Bhut does not grow well in a farming setting. If we get a Trinidad Variety the record it could re-vitalize the Economy of the the Chile farmer, help the economy of Trinidad and provide the Hot sauce manufacturers with a superhot that can grow well in America. And since we field tested Scorpions and 7 Pots already in the field we know they are a better crop to grow than the Bhut. If you think I am pulling your leg go ahead and contact Dave De Witt directly or wait until he does a press release. Thank you!
Jim Duffy

P.S.I can give you these results...7 Pod Yellow 600,000-700,000, all 7 Pots except Jonah and Douglah 600,000-900,000, Yellow Bhut Jolokia over 400,000, Chocolate Bhut Jolokia over 800,000,
Chocolate Hab over 500,000, Devil's Tongue Yellow over 400,00, Devil's Tongue Red over 400,000, Devil's Tongue Chocolate over 500,000, Fatalii over 300,000, Fatalii Red Under 300,000, Naga Morich over 700,000

We did not test and red habanero types because we all know they average between 250-400,000. We did not test Red Bhut or Bih because Marlin knows the average is between 400,000 and 800,000. Sorry but it's rare for a Bhut to get near 1,000,000. On the average 7 Pots and Scorpions get closer or just above 1,000,00 more than any Bhut or Naga. And as far as I am concerned grow better and taste better too!

Edited by Habanero500, 21 January 2011 - 04:32 PM.


#2 orangehero

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 06:56 PM

Can you describe the testing process more? Dried pods are tested, correct? What would be the typical content in fresh pods?

#3 dvg

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 07:18 PM

Hi Jim,

It's exciting news that the 7 Pods/Douglahs and Trinidad Scorpions are finally being tested and verified with independent third party testing as well.

It will be interesting to see how the aforementioned Trinidad strains eventually rate on the heat scale.

Thanks for the advance notice of your pending test results, as I'm sure these results will cause quite a stir in the Chile Head world and the fiery foods industry also.

dvg

#4 PepperLover

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 08:29 PM

i said that long time ago the douglah will get it :cool:

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#5 Habanero500

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:06 PM

Well Pepper lover I cannot comment on the Douglah. Except that it averages well above average of Bhut and Nagas. To answer earlier question you cannot test fresh pods. Here is why. The water content in a fresh pod is so high you would not get a reading. Anytime you eat fresh you are getting a lower level of pungency. So lets say you eat 5 grams of fresh Scorpion and 5 grams of dried scorpion. You will be getting more Capsaicin content from 5 grams of dried. I cannot describe HCPL technology but here is how process begins. You take fresh pod and only remove stem. Then cut whole pod in half being careful not to lose any material. Then dehydrate naturally or use dehydrator. Dehydrator is best because you need to remove as much moisture as possible. Then you grind up whole pod including seeds into powder. You can do a single pod or composite sample of multiple pods. Then you use a lab process to convert into liquid extract which takes a whole working day! Then you run liquid through analytical HCPL machine. I hope this answers your question. Same test for Paprika is same test for other chiles, horseradish, ginger or mustard. Food industry wants this testing not just to know heat but consistency of heat for their crop they will purchase for their products. I have learned a lot from Dave De Witt and Marlin.

#6 DaQatz

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:09 PM

From what I've heard the proper way to test the pod is to freeze dry it first(Not dehydrate).
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#7 Habanero500

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:13 PM

Well it is not freeze dried. That is not how the Capsaicin industry does it. Freeze drying it would serve no purpose in getting results. Maybe for storage to test later but for no other purpose.

#8 DaQatz

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:23 PM

Well if you can't test fresh. Dehydrated pods produces capsaicin loss, this affects the end result. While freeze drying removes the water issue, while also preserving the natural capsaicin level.
Peppers taste the flamebow.

#9 orangehero

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:30 PM

I was wondering if you might be able to post a copy of the American Spice Trade Association Method 21.3 if you have access to it.

Also I don't understand this obsession to get some kind absolute average pungency score from plants under different conditions and from different locations, etc. I think it's enough to get the highest potential capsaicin score. Stress the plant all you want and provide ideal growing conditions, if it can produce more capsaicin than any other plant then that is the record.

I can understand the rigorous method for commercial use, but for the guiness records it doesn't matter.

One more question: is the scoville rating a measure of concentration per unit mass? Per unit pepper?

Edited by orangehero, 05 December 2010 - 09:38 PM.


#10 hot stuff

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:42 PM

Scoville uses a dilution process. You start off with the basic pepper solution and start diluting it until you don't feel any heat. The amount of solution needed to get there is the scoville units.
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#11 Habanero500

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:15 PM

That is the original Scoville method. Now they measure it with HCPL and assign it in units which they call scoville. In response to freeze drying question. Are you a chemical engineer? Do you test for the Billion dollar spice industry? When you do then you can lobby the entire Worldwide industry and tell them they should freeze dry okay. If freeze drying were more accurate for pungency testing a multi-billion dollar industry would do it! I don't doubt that dehydrating will affect levels. But if you dehydrate everything then you affect everything the same exact way. So everything has the same standard. Every Industry must have a standard now or they cannot do business worldwide. Ever hear of ISO9000?? This is a Standard of keeping standards. If you own a U.S. company you have to say you have a standard in the way you make and test things. Then every now and then a group of ISO9000 auditors comes to see if you follow your own standard. They don't care about your standard or process. They just check to see if you follow it. If you don't you could lose all European and Asian business. So spice industry follows a standard. And it's one that has a process. And that process is dehydrating. And they believe it's the best way. So if you disagree with it become the owner of a large spice company and change it. I did not create it. I am just describing it.

Now to respond to Orange hero. We look at different factors to see what affects pungency. Then of course choose best peppers that affect pungency level. Single peppers are tested first then to get enough test material for final samples for outside testing a composite of multiple peppers is put together but still represents the species being tested. Everything must be documented through whole process. More data means more credibility. And we don't have to grow all plants under same conditions. Bosland only did that to show he gave equal footing to Red Savina and Orange habanero that he tested at same time. He was essentially saying look I gave three varieties the same conditions and Bhut came out on top.

#12 PepperLover

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:17 PM

habaner500 your input is very helpful

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#13 Habanero500

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:43 PM

Are you single Pepper Lover??? LOL

#14 chad s

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:55 PM

Hab500

When do you expect further results to be available? Do you have any idea when the seeds will be ready?

I was wondering if you could describe the crossing process. Was it for instance crossing a scorpion with a bhut and then crossing that resulting pepper with the naga making the viper half naga and a quarter each of the other two, or were multiple crosses done to achieve each plant contributing a third?

I have seen Darth Naga's test where he suffered a reversal, are there any other vid reviews on the way? I would love to see Neil at HippySeed give the viper a whirl!

Thanks for answering my ?s

Chad

#15 PepperLover

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 11:08 PM

Are you single Pepper Lover??? LOL

lol yes i am 28 here what about you lol :cool:

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#16 Habanero500

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 11:42 PM

Yes Im am single pepper lover but my daughter is 2 yrs younger than you:) Unless you want a Pepper Sugar Daddy! LOL Do you want to trade some seeds?? My e mail jpdherb@cox.net

Hello Chad s did you read this post??? I dont believe in the Naga Viper at all.

#17 Big_Egg

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 01:38 AM

Do you want to trade some seeds??

Oh my the innuendo! If his come in a bottle, don't open it Pepperlover

#18 Habanero500

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 02:02 AM

Pepper seeds not bodily fluids! Jeez I don't go for the Pepper Forum Cyber Sex stuff!

#19 Cube

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 06:46 AM

Pepper seeds not bodily fluids! Jeez I don't go for the Pepper Forum Cyber Sex stuff!


I'd thought that depends on whether it was freeze dried or dehydrated slowly. For testing purposes only of course.

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#20 nickdu

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 08:49 AM

Intresting to see the Jonah up there with the hottest. I grew them for the first time this season (seeds from Gerald)the first pods to ripen were very small about twice the size of a pea which i cut into four and me and my 3 buddies had a piece each i must admit i was not expecting it to be as hot as it was it felt like my tongue was on fire.
Also the Jonah is a very good yielder with masses of super hot pods,im looking forward to the results of the testing.




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