New Drama - Carbonero

juanitos

juanitos

So tony sherwood made a cross called Carbonero was f2 when he posted it, now f4, he sent seeds for people to grow out help him stabilize. Brad bishop did review.
 
Ed currie posts teaser picture of peppers that look almost exactly like carbornero.
 
tony shares it in his group "Whats really going on"
 
His group concludes from the picture they must be carbornero and start commenting on puckerbuttss picture
 
ed is deleteing all comments about carbornero from the post
 
now tony is removing anyone who is friends with ed from his fb
 
??
there is an existing notion that ed from pucketbutt stole troy from primospeppers primo and renamed it as reaper. So people already don't like him.
There is fear ed is doing it again with this carbornero. Ed is playing dumb and deleteing posts about carbornero from his post... making it seem even more fishy
 
 
want to follow the drama? you have to join facebook groups!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/peppertsherwood/
 
I saw that a couple of night's ago ... and I think it must be true, because Ed Currie's had enough print publicity for the Reaper in the past few years that it would qualify as libel ...
 
There is a process I call "convergent hybridisation". I see so many new hybrids that look, to all intents and purposes, just like a pre-existing hybrid, it`s crazy. It would be nice if people just chilled the f*ck out and waited until there was something known in the real world as evidence. A quick SHU test is not evidence. It`s suggestive, at best. 
 
I'm pretty certain Ed was just trolling Tony because Tony took a strong stance on the Theft of the primo. So Ed intentionally post pics of it and remained vague about it.  But then again I was deleted for making a comment on Eds post as well as tons of other people. Obviously there's something to hide if you're going to delete all the comments about the pepper looking like carbonero and pretend it never happened. 
 
Tony is a nice guy, we have exchanged seeds on several occasions and he's not trying to profit off his work. I've made a cross of Carbonero X Butch T Yellow. He's only shown excitement over it not contempt. 
 
I have no comments on Ed himself because i've never had a positive interaction with them man. 
 
BTW the Carbonero IS an extremely tasty pepper. 
 
Nigel said:
There is a process I call "convergent hybridisation". I see so many new hybrids that look, to all intents and purposes, just like a pre-existing hybrid, it`s crazy. It would be nice if people just chilled the f*ck out and waited until there was something known in the real world as evidence. A quick SHU test is not evidence. It`s suggestive, at best. 
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I just wanna say its great to see you back around these parts making wonderfully wise comments again. Cheers Nigel
 
Next time think twice before giving away f2 seeds. When i share seeds i understand and accept the consequences...

My 2c

Datil
 
Nigel said:
There is a process I call "convergent hybridisation". I see so many new hybrids that look, to all intents and purposes, just like a pre-existing hybrid, it`s crazy. It would be nice if people just chilled the f*ck out and waited until there was something known in the real world as evidence. A quick SHU test is not evidence. It`s suggestive, at best.
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Och, ye f*cking tell 'em! Ye'd think Tony's boot wiz up th'spout, an' the last bairn awreadies wi' ole Bawbag Currie's coupon or summat, aye? An' aw ees bawheided Harry Hoofters gype a'it, th' dobbers. Speir me, s'pure shite. Aw ees pyots gettin' raised oar quinkins, wi' real ettins to be fasht oar, 'f ye ken whae am oan aboot. Anoar clamihewit fae nawt. Warmers goat nawt else t'git chuffed oar, no th' Nat King Cole or nawt? Ah've goat mair tae dae come lowsin' time fae gawpin' a' messins an' playin' "whae's th' da," ken? So you lair 'em, ye barrie git, but I cannae be arsed. S'like gowlin' a' yowes, ken? Pure gies me th' boak.

But yeah, good to see you back on THP, bodach.
Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to dispel any rumors that Hogleg is my babydaddy.
 
Wicked Mike said:
Och, ye f*cking tell 'em! Ye'd think Tony's boot wiz up th'spout, an' the last bairn awreadies wi' ole Bawbag Currie's coupon or summat, aye? An' aw ees bawheided Harry Hoofters gype a'it, th' dobbers. Speir me, s'pure shite. Aw ees pyots gettin' raised oar quinkins, wi' real ettins to be fasht oar, 'f ye ken whae am oan aboot. Anoar clamihewit fae nawt. Warmers goat nawt else t'git chuffed oar, no th' Nat King Cole or nawt? Ah've goat mair tae dae come lowsin' time fae gawpin' a' messins an' playin' "whae's th' da," ken? So you lair 'em, ye barrie git, but I cannae be arsed. S'like gowlin' a' yowes, ken? Pure gies me th' boak.

But yeah, good to see you back on THP, bodach.
Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to dispel any rumors that Hogleg is my babydaddy.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke5Mr5eCF2U
 
I am never going to understand some of the drama in the pepper growing community.
 
I do understand the idea of being upset if someone takes credit for work you did.
 
Being new to growing peppers, and never having done any intentional crosses before, help me get my facts together please.
 
A cross is considered unstable until at least the 4th or 5th generation of growing true, correct?
 
Each generation must be fully isolated to insure no outside crossing occurs during each generation?
 
With all the variations that can occur with early generations, how can anyone say they have developed "that pepper" until it grows stable?
 
I used to raise show quality Muscovy ducks. I developed my own strain that in time bred true in color and type, but it took many generations to get to that point.( actually almost 10 years for me to be happy with it) Over the years I gave away 100's of eggs and ducks with the understanding that if they produced the desired traits then they could be bred by another and look like my strain.  It was a risk I knowingly took in passing birds outside my breeding program. If they gave me credit for the birds I gave them, great, but any bred later from those birds were neither my responsibility nor something that I could fully take credit for.
 
If I were to discover a pepper cross that was simply outstanding, I would most likely send it to someone I knew from reputation or knowing personally that could take the time and effort to try to develop it, but that would be their work, not mine.
 
I guess what all this rambling is trying to get at is that if you send out first or 2nd generation seeds of anything Hoe can you control what others do with them?
 
And I do not know either person personally and have only had limited dealings with Ed through his store and FB
 
That's exactly the problem though, if you spent 5-10 years growing out a cross and stabilizing it only to have some asshat down the road get a hold of your seeds and then rename it and take credit you would be pretty furious. Especially if they was going to try and make money off it.  Most of us in the pepper community don't do it to make money. We do it for the love of peppers. 
 
I'm new to crossing. I've only just started growing out some of my f1's but it was no where near as easy as I thought it would be. I had several dozen crosses not take at all. Countless days looking like a loony with my clip board and pollen vials collecting, recording, pollination ect. Once I get to f2 there's going to be tons of growing out looking for a nice pheno and several years trying to stabilize it. I've already let a few seeds go with stipulations that they can't be shared and seeds are sent back to me to assist in the process but deep down I know some will get loose. I just hope I stay ahead of any other generations out there. Not for any profit or anything but i'd at least like to name them after all my hard work. 
 
But then again, who knows, I might just let a arse ton of f2 seeds go and have a community grow where we collectively select a desired pheno. That almost sounds like as much fun. As long as no one sends any to Ed. 
 
I think it was f7 or f9 to be close enough to 100% pure to call it stable; but its never going to be 100%.
grantmichaels said:
Does he interact with the community at large anywhere? Publicly?
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On facebook on both his personal and professional pages.
 
D3monic said:
That's exactly the problem though, if you spent 5-10 years growing out a cross and stabilizing it only to have some asshat down the road get a hold of your seeds and then rename it and take credit you would be pretty furious. Especially if they was going to try and make money off it.  Most of us in the pepper community don't do it to make money. We do it for the love of peppers. 
 
 
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I agree 100%
I do understand the frustration, even the anger if someone has out all the work in to get something stable or even close to stable.
I also would voice my dislike of such a situation by not buying from the person stealing the work.
 
For the most part the community I am seeing is honest and dedicated to the love of all things pepper.  There are always a few bad apples in any group of people.
 
D3monic said:
 
 
I'm new to crossing. I've only just started growing out some of my f1's but it was no where near as easy as I thought it would be. I had several dozen crosses not take at all. Countless days looking like a loony with my clip board and pollen vials collecting, recording, pollination ect. Once I get to f2 there's going to be tons of growing out looking for a nice pheno and several years trying to stabilize it. I've already let a few seeds go with stipulations that they can't be shared and seeds are sent back to me to assist in the process but deep down I know some will get loose. I just hope I stay ahead of any other generations out there. Not for any profit or anything but i'd at least like to name them after all my hard work. 
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I raise my glass to you for the effort you put into those crosses! Seeing how much work it was, I really do understand why someone would be pissed.
 
I do see how someone could get away with such behavior though.
Take someone like me who is new to the world of peppers, I was introduced to hot peppers by a news bit over the Reaper being the hottest pepper in the world . My first exposure to the community was Ed.  Now how the reaper came about or who actually developed it would never have entered my mind. I wanted the novelty of saying I had grown the hottest. If I had never found this place, I would have likely gone on with no question admiring new peppers from his store.
 
I will be following this situation and hope to see the truth come out, regardless of what that is.
 
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