chinense Carolina Reaper and Pepper Stabilization

Fremp said:
Now on that note...I have some AquaFina straight from the Mountains Ice caps for sale....actually I lied..its just tap water with an aquafina label ;)
Click to expand...
 
To be fair, AquaFina is tap water that has been filtered and purified via reverse osmosis, ultraviolet irradiation, and ozonation.  ;)
 
Just to stir the pot a little, I'd like to point out that all this discussion of genetics has, so far, assumed a simple dominance relationship.  It is at least plausible that any given phenotypic trait we discuss, whether it be pod shape, heat level, pod color, whatever, is actually determined by epistasis.  If that's the case, all the numbers relating F generation and stability go out the window.
 
Tyler-
What does not make financial sense is to grow plants you cannot profit from without threats of legal action. What's the point? Dale grows peppers for profit.
 
I have pod variation on several of my plants (I don't have any reapers for the record). The scotch bonnets in particular have pod variation but all of the pods generally have that squished shape of a SB even if not all of the pods were true bonnet shapes, you would have no issue telling that they were all bonnets. The pictures I am seeing of the reapers are not what I would call pod variation. They aren't even close, not in the same ball park, pretty much totally different than those that look like a reaper is 'supposed' to look like. some are smooth, some are gnarly, some have stingers, some are pendent shaped.
 
If I were a betting man, I would think those are crosses, not recessive genetic traits.
 
TylerInNiagara said:
Just my opinion from looking at the pod pics most looked fairly reaper like and the few that didn’t I think were affected by the environment not enough heat or humidity or maybe soil nutrients out of 10 seeds/8-10 plants you should have consistency in at least one. Baker’s pods looked great had good heat and good taste if you believe the video reviews it did not make financial sense to burn them this year after spending over $100 on seeds and growing them for months….and many of his customers probably would have loved a cheap or free pod.
Click to expand...
 
I don't think the reason he burnt them was done to make financial sense or even that he wasn't happy with the stability of the pepper -- it was more a decision to not worry about the financial result if the lawyers from ed and joe actually followed through with filing suit against any resell of the items without agreeing to their terms and signing a contract directly with them. - figure just paying for defending yourself against a suit can be more costly than the $100 investment in seeds and growing costs. Even though it is doubtful anything would have happened it just isn't worth the hassle so he decided to just burn the plants and let others fight it out.
 
Its funny how every thread about the Reaper gets derailed....
 
I thought we were talking about stability, not about Dale Baker.... I would bet he is sick of having his name associated with the whole thing.
 
 
I am glad someone brought up the epistasis argument. That's a pretty valid point, and interested if anyone has any specifics on how it relates to peppers, or nightshades in general.
 
I didn't buy any "ripper" seeds. The only thing I can say I all the "hard work and reputation" is going down the hole.

Many respects to Ed Currie, but I'm not supporting or ever will. What's worth if you can't sell, make products or whatever with this thing they call the "ripper". Yet to even know what plant you're getting with the seed you save.

Someone will try to stabilize it. It's it worth it tho? No, because despite your hard work you're still gona get lawyers on your a$$ if that's even true that this "ripper" is protected.

I second what Armac says. If you don't get what you paid for then it's refund for all, no questions asked. Who should be the one getting sewed for selling a bad product that's not as advertised?

, Walter
 
I agree about the pod variations from yr to yr can differ. unless they are isolated and grown under the exact same conditions weather included. But wait.. what about uncontrolled set backs??? and not every plant grows the same either. Unfortunately for the most part due to all the seed tradeing, amateur growing, and the pepper community expanding. You might as well throw ( stable strain) out to window. :/
 
Yep and in reality Gene A and Gene b is just the start as every factor is controlled by different genes, Length, bumps, Stinger, etc. that times the problem of Stability even more.
 
 The CR is a cross and so I would expect the biggest problem is as to the unstably of the CR is not that there F8's is's the lack of selection in the first part.  I would think after F5's or so the breeder started growing 100's and using seeds out of them all for the next generations just to keep up with the demand  so at F8 there could be still so much genetic material that different pheno's are still showing.
 
To truly be stable at F8 you have to isolate every plant and pick only one to keep seeds from every year, So if you grew 100 plants every year you would cull 693 or more plants to get seeds of a stable F8 plant, I'm sure not one breeder is going to do that more like F3 and like what he's/she's getting and stars growing in an isolate field and picking pods of plants till F8's and calls them stable when in Fact there F8's but not genetically stable as not every plant every year was isolated to get to the F8 in the first place.  
 
TBH I LOL when I see Has to be F8 to be a stable strain,  picked the right or wrong genes could be stable at F3 or still not stable at F600.     
 
theghostpepperstore said:
 
I am glad someone brought up the epistasis argument. That's a pretty valid point, and interested if anyone has any specifics on how it relates to peppers, or nightshades in general.
Click to expand...
 
Me too.  I know there are some combinations that only seem to show up together but it would be nice to see more of a breakdown on what those are.
 
Peppercorn got his money. That is why he's not in the picture anymore
He's in the seed selling not stabilazation
He cares about the satisfied only and not with te unhappy customers.
He is quick to say how everyone else is germinating seeds or getting the correct phenotypes. Therefore it's the growers fault.
 
Maybe someone should start a separate discussion somewhere (I am thinking Hot Button Topics) where the business stuff, the vendor bashing, the talk of lawsuits and refunds can all be discussed. It is all VERY valid, but I just hate to see everyone of these threads eventually go down this road. I feel like 3/5 was trying to discuss the stability, and how/why it went wrong. If I am incorrect, I apologize to all.
 
Let's face it someone will breed an even hotter or more Crazy looking pepper that everyone will want and want to bad mouth. lol Breeding is easy Stabilizing isn't and Greed over comes Stabilizing 99.99% of the time. 
 
Mr. Hill said:
Let's face it someone will breed an even hotter or more Crazy looking pepper that everyone will want and want to bad mouth. lol Breeding is easy Stabilizing isn't and Greed over comes Stabilizing 99.99% of the time. 
Click to expand...
Just take a look at the Jay's ghost scorpion. I want to grow it next year or this winter in hydro.

That's a mean looking pepper, and its stable from what I've seen.

, Walter
 
Just for your info I ordered 2 packs of Reapers  1 from Ed the other from Joe,  out of 20 seeds 7 plants survived.  1 plant is producing pods ATM, maybe the others will grow true to the claim?  I took examples from some of my other plants 5 minutes ago, not one of the other plants is under 1 year old most are pushing 1.5 tah 2.  Jamie(Romy6 gave me they yellow 7s) everything I have is open pollinated thous the Scorpion Bhutt crosses I have now, these are F2 ATM(F3 coming soon).
 
  I am just a little disappointed with the Reaper, the exact opposite can be said about Jim Duffy's Moruga Scorpions which came out True To Form, and I have ordered from him since I got the Morugas almost 2 years ago, and will again. 
 
IMG_0202.jpg
 
The thing is...I don't think their claim to the name will hold up if selling the pods or seeds produced unless they made you sign the contract before you purchased the seeds. Otherwise every farmer that grew anything would have to pay royalties to the originator. I don't see a judge backing that claim. It is reasonable that someone purchasing seeds is doing so to raise a crop...and what they do with it is up to them. You can't sell folks the seeds then once everyone is done with the initial big buy change the rules and try to claim you have any rights over the crop produced. I think its all a giant scare tactic to keep their money grab going. Turns my stomach...I am very tempted to sell every bit of powder I produce at 25 cents over the cost of shipping to force them to take me to court...

theghostpepperstore said:
Maybe someone should start a separate discussion somewhere (I am thinking Hot Button Topics) where the business stuff, the vendor bashing, the talk of lawsuits and refunds can all be discussed. It is all VERY valid, but I just hate to see everyone of these threads eventually go down this road. I feel like 3/5 was trying to discuss the stability, and how/why it went wrong. If I am incorrect, I apologize to all.
Click to expand...
oh...sorry. They're not stable, the end kindly disregard the above post...unless you wanna read it.
 
stc3248 said:
The thing is...I don't think their claim to the name will hold up if selling the pods or seeds produced unless they made you sign the contract before you purchased the seeds. Otherwise every farmer that grew anything would have to pay royalties to the originator. I don't see a judge backing that claim. It is reasonable that someone purchasing seeds is doing so to raise a crop...and what they do with it is up to them. You can't sell folks the seeds then once everyone is done with the initial big buy change the rules and try to claim you have any rights over the crop produced. I think its all a giant scare tactic to keep their money grab going. Turns my stomach...I am very tempted to sell every bit of powder I produce at 25 cents over the cost of shipping to force them to take me to court...

oh...sorry. They're not stable, the end kindly disregard the above post...unless you wanna read it.
Click to expand...
I did want to read it ...and I totally agree.  Where does it end then?? Say a farmer is being sold Supercalafragilousness rye grass seeds and clover seeds for his pasture and then raised his cattle on it and as he goes to sell the cattle which he advertises as 'being pasture fed only the finest Supercalafragilousness rye and clover', the grass seed seller (read seller not manufacturer because he did not manufacture the seeds or the plants) then attempts to stop him because he has used his seeds to grow the pasture ... (Growing up on a farm I can assure you my father would have said  ... go F&%K yourself :D ) Whatever.  If you sell a primary product you have no rights to stop the on selling of the secondary product produced from it

Unless you signed a contract agreeing not to on-sell the products produced ... but then who is that stupid??

Maybe People Should ask Ed from Suckerbutt if they now can't use his seeds to grow pods for selling or for their intended use he buys the end product back at market prices??
 
I don't have reapers and am a complete newbie. But I have been keeping up with threads. Trippa just said what I have been thinking this whole time. You would have to be told when you where sold the seeds for this to stand up in court.
 
stc3248 said:
oh...sorry. They're not stable, the end kindly disregard the above post...unless you wanna read it.
Click to expand...
 
Don't get me wrong, I do want to read it, because I think all those grievances are valid. It was merely a suggestion, this isn't my thread, and I am not a mod, and I never claimed to be the authority, if no one agrees with me, so be it. :P
 
Believe me, as a grower I agree with you 100%. I can't think of a single other food crop that I can openly purchase seeds for, without a contract UP FRONT, and not sell the product. Selling seed, that is probably a different story, I have used a few trademarked varieties of lettuce and I am sure the companies would come after me for selling seed. The sure as heck wouldn't sell me a bag of 1 million seeds the turn around and tell me they will sue me for selling the heads of lettuce. But then again, no one at the farmer's market really gives a damn about what variety of lettuce it is, they just care that it tastes and looks good.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top