• If you can't find a "Hot" category that fits, post it here!

Chilli Antidote

PeriPeri

PeriPeri

Hi All,

Not sure if this thread belongs in this section... but I don't think it relates to cooking.

What has been on my mind for a long time is (call it) an antidote to chilli burn (capsicum : Capsaicins). Lots of different opinions... milk, ice cream, peanut butter...

I would love to hear from all you Chilli heads what does it for you. But seriously please, I don't want to hear hitting your left thumb with a twelve pound hammer takes away the burn lol I am trying to gather research material from what I believe to be a credible source to analyze your antidotes... establish scientific reasons why they eleviate the burn... and try and establish a cocktail of ingredients that might significantly reduce the effects Chilli burn.

So please drop me a short reply on what you, seriously believe helps reduce the burn. And if its Ice cream or penut butter... even if its been mentioned before...

Thanks!

PeriPeri
 
I don't use any antidotes for mouth heat, when it comes to gut pain though chocolate milk seems to work good for myself.
 
I dunno about antidotes for stopping the burn, I just drink some water and let it work it's course hehe, even dehydrated what I been only having from some friends they're hot, I just have a handy bottle of water with me and drink some to get rid of some heat, makes it worse at some points but I still like the feeling I get from the burn, makes you feel good and hurt. I tried milk, but it didn't really do much so I stopped trying milk to help but the 12 pound hammer makes sense.... haha I jokes :D
 
A tablespoon of sugar in the mouth and swish it around. That is what I give to people that come over but can't handle the wonderful burn.
 
Here's a similar topic posted last week with lots of replies: http://www.thehotpepper.com/topic/23750-what-would-you-do-to-prepare-for-a-hot-pepper-challenge/
 
I don't get it...if you want to make the burn stop, why are you eating them anyway...(not trying to be a smart ass here either)

The burn along with the taste is the signature of the pepper...

To answer your question, you have to look at the actual mechanism of the burn...capsaicin attaches itself to heat receptors...one way to reduce the burn is to replace the capsaicin on the heat receptor with an item that has a higher affinity for the heat receptor site, such as Casein (found in dairy products)...but when you replace the capsaicin with casein, the capsaicin has to go somewhere and it usually does and burns somewhere else...

and to get even further into it....each capsaicinoid (there are several, such as capsaicin, dihydrocapsaicin, nordihydrocapsaicin, etc..) attacks heat receptors at different places in the mouth...so...there must be different kinds of heat receptors in the mouth...for instance...tepins (pequins, chilepetins, etc) has a really harsh burn up front on the lips and tongue that hurts but goes away fairly quickly...
 
Now you see this is more where I am trying to get to, but doing some research to see what people come up with... and I'm not really a scientist or biologist or chemist for that matter lol

Capsicums are made up of a complex mix of compounds... being Capsaicin, dihydrocapsaicin, nordihydrocapsaicin, homodihydrocapsaicin and homocapsaicin. The most lethal of these in order being Capsaicin typically at about 69% (16mil SHU) Dihydraocapsaicin 22% (15 mil SHU), Nordihydrocapsaicin 7% (9,1 mil SHU) Homodihydrocapsaicin 1% (8,6 mil SHU) and same with Homocapsaicin. They all seem to be very similar in molecular structure.

There has to be a way to effectively break down these components, thus reducing their burn. I gather from conversation that dairy products seem to be a key. I also am drawing the conclusion that sugar is a nutralizing agent to all these components.

I'm not sure in what way dairy products are effective. I know from baby books that dairy stimulates the production of mucus. And in turn, mucus also breaks down these components. Which is why I believe we all salevate so much when eat chillis. It is probably our bodies effective defense against the effects of the Capsaicins. And with that I am not suggesting we all go take a sip from the old spittoon after a chilli lol

In India, warm goats milk seems to be high on the agenda when eating hot food. And they have been doing this since like for ever... so there has to be some credibility in that myth.

Anyway... there's an awesome little herb/plant I came across called Stevia. Now this is used quite extensively in sweetners. It's about 350 times sweeter than sugar and apparently not an issue to Diabetics. There might be something there to look at as well I think. In my very simplistic view this narrows the ratio to neutralize 16 mil SHU to about 46000:1 which is still a fair whack, but hell of a lot better than 16,000,00 : 1.

We also know that the oils from a chilli line the mouth, making it very difficult to rinse out and ultimately causing the capsaicins to linger in the mouth... ultimately causing the burn to linger. I believe.

I have read that soap, shampoo and other detergents are effective. But wouldn't be nice in the mouth. Soap serves as a surfactant in conjunction with water. Absorbing fat and grease and coating them in polar hydrophilic (water loving) molecules... causing oils to dissolve in water... which they normally do not of course. And with that they are rinsed off whatever surface they are on.

Oily compounds such as vegetable oil, paraffin oil and Polyethylene Glycol can also be used apparently.

I seem to think heat would also be a factor. As heat dissolves oil.

The cooling action of Ice and wind etc are also factors that offer temporary relief from the burning sensation. So I would presume that the addition of alcohol or mint (which we know to have cooling properties) may also be a possibility. I'm not sure... but doesn't alcohol also break down oils? Will have to check that.

Anyway, I am hypothesizing a mix of various ingredients that might reduce the effects of Capsicum burn.

What the application might be for... and seeing that usually chilli burn is self inflicted... it does raise the question why would you want to? But then that is a discussion in itself.

The quest here is to find a cocktail of ingredients that could significantly reduce the effects of Capsaicin.

And then there is of course the argument that Capsaicin burns thrice if really hot. Once on entry, once in the tummy and once on exit lol

Any other suggestions oh ye Chilli heads?
 
PeriPeri said:
Capsicums are made up of a complex mix of compounds... being Capsaicin, dihydrocapsaicin, nordihydrocapsaicin, homodihydrocapsaicin and homocapsaicin. The most lethal of these in order being Capsaicin typically at about 69% (16mil SHU) Dihydraocapsaicin 22% (15 mil SHU), Nordihydrocapsaicin 7% (9,1 mil SHU) Homodihydrocapsaicin 1% (8,6 mil SHU) and same with Homocapsaicin. They all seem to be very similar in molecular structure.
Click to expand...

that's why they are called capsaicinoids...

PeriPeri said:
I'm not sure in what way dairy products are effective.
Click to expand...

as I said in my previous post, the casein in dairy products has a higher affinity for the heat receptors than does the capsaicinoids...meaning that the casein will replace the capsaicinoids attached to the heat receptors..

I am curious about where you got the breakdown percentages of capsaicinoids...all percentages vary from species to species and variety to variety...which is why I started growing my own to begin with...I want to create the "perfect burn" by mixing different varieties that will give all of your heat receptors in your mouth a good ride...

here is an excerpt from some research I did a few years ago..

Capsaicin

Type of pungency: In a detailed study performed by Anna Krajewska and John Powers, subjects noted that very dilute solutions of the various capsaicinoids produced different types of pungency. These differences were not noted using more concentrated solutions. Capsaicin, in a very dilute solution, was noted as producing a "sharp and stinging bite" located "in the mid-mouth and mid-palate as well as the throat and the back of the tongue" that developed quickly and was long-lived.

Dihydrocapsaicin

Type of pungency: Krajewska and Powers' study, showed that, in very dilute solution, dihydrocapsaicin had a pungency profile like that of capsaicin: a "sharp and stinging bite" located "in the mid-mouth and mid-palate as well as the throat and the back of the tongue" that developed quickly and was long-lived.

Homocapsaicin
Homocapsaicin II
Homodihydrocapsaicin

Type of pungency: In a detailed study performed by Anna Krajewska and John Powers, homodihydrocapsaicin, in a very dilute solution, was noted as producing a "very irritating, harsh, and very sharp" "numbing burn" located in the throat and the back of the tongue and palate that developed slowly and "was prolonged and difficult to rinse out".

Homodihydrocapsaicin II
Nordihydrocapsaicin

Type of pungency: In a detailed study performed by Anna Krajewska and John Powers, nordihydrocapsaicin, in a very dilute solution, was noted as producing a "mellow, warming effect" with "immediate build and rapid fade" located "in [the] front of the mouth and palate".

your subject interests me a good bit...if you can come up with an "antidote" for the effects of capsaicinoids that is not harmful to ingest, you may be on to something...

If there is an organic chemist onboard here on THP, I would love to hear them chime in...It will take an organic chemist to fully answer your proposed questions...as you say, each capsaicinoid has a minor difference in its molecular structure and those minor differences make a large difference in where the molecular reactions take place within the molecular structure...I had two quarters of organic chemistry in the late 70s but was not really interested in the subject at the time...
 
Thanks for that info AJ, its a good place to start for those of us interested in reading more on the subject.

I am actually an ex-biochemist, and though I have not studied this subject at all I will chime in with a bit of theory based on what little I do know on the subject.

Generally, the method by which your body would get rid of something "harmful" is by metabolizing it - that is chemicals in your cells, blood, or body cavities break down the offending chemical. The "antidote" for alcohol for example, is really an enzyme in your liver cells called alcohol dehydrogenase, which converts the poisonous alcohol in your body into safer compounds.

However, our bodies, while they do metabolize capsaicinoids (at least in skin cells), do not do so very efficiently or quickly. (source: http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/36/4/670.full)

As AJ stated above (I think it was him), capsaicinoids cause pain in our bodies by attaching themselves to pain receptors in our nerves, causing the nerves to send a signal very similar to what they would send if instead the nerve was exposed to high heat.

So in a body that does not metabolize capsaicinoids quickly, the best known way to block the effects of capsicinoids is through some form of inhibition - ie another chemical that has the effect of making the capsaicinoids less likely to bind to your pain receptors. Casein has been found to act as a competetive inhibitor, but anecdotal evidence suggests that it is not particularly effective.

If we wanted to actually develop an "antidote", the best places to look (that I can think of) would be:
1. Some form of enzyme like those already present in your skin that had higher activity in breaking down capsaicin. Maybe this could be cultured in bacteria in dairy etc and form a drink that would actually break down the capsaicin in your mouth and stomach. As far as I know no such thing has been discovered or designed yet.
2. Some competetive inhibitor - something that has a much higher affinity to your pain receptors than capsaicin, so those receptors would bind it instead. Milk protein is one example that probably simply doesnt have a high enough affinity to be truly effective.
3. Some other inhibitor - maybe a compound that has a strong affinity to capsaicin and thus binds it and stops it from being able to attach to the receptors in the first place. I'm not aware of any such compound, but they may be out there ready for discovery.

Maybe all that was a bit of a tangent since this thread is more about what has anecdotally worked for people. For me if I really overdo the heat, I find that just about anything cool that I can keep running through my mouth will work, obviously icecream, yogurt (kefir works well for my stomach), and milk. Also breathing slowly in through my mouth and quickly out through my nose seems to help a bit for tongue and mouth burn.
 
I find that vegetable oils work good for getting it off my hands which is the usual place I'm trying to get rid of it. I eat peppers b/s I like the heat in my mouth. I don't care for it on my hands at it then gets in my eyes, ears, wanker (sp.) etc. Also making a paste of dehydrated milk-though I find this really only helps for as long as it is applied and the heat comes back as soon as I wash it away.
 
Justaguy said:
I thought do to the math calculations pure is 15 mil????
Click to expand...

Pure CAPSAICIN is supposed to be around 16 mil SHU, each of the other capsaicinoids have different (lower) SHU in their pure form. So a pure extract from any pepper with a different composition of capsaicinoids would have a different SHU. PeriPeri said something about it, I dont know where he got the numbers but for the sake of argument lets assume its true...
PeriPeri said:
Capsaicin, dihydrocapsaicin, nordihydrocapsaicin, homodihydrocapsaicin and homocapsaicin. The most lethal of these in order being Capsaicin typically at about 69% (16mil SHU) Dihydraocapsaicin 22% (15 mil SHU), Nordihydrocapsaicin 7% (9,1 mil SHU) Homodihydrocapsaicin 1% (8,6 mil SHU) and same with Homocapsaicin. They all seem to be very similar in molecular structure.
Click to expand...

If we want to pretend that the average chile has about the % composition that PeriPeri put up, you could probably estimate SHU of a pure capsaicinoid resin (ie a pure mix of ALL the capsaicinoids from the pepper) by a weighted average of the SHU's attributed to each. [(69%x16mil + 22%x15mil + 7%x9.1mil + 2%x8.6mil) = 15.15 mil SHU]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top