Choosing HID bulbs

lavish · Jul 29, 2009

Hi guys,

Im going to upgrade to a 400W. Ive been running my indoor growing with a 250W HID (MH and then switch to HPS). Now im going to buy a new ballast. Ive decided to buy the Sonlight 400W ballast, i believe its a generic/pretty much the same as Lumatek digital ballasts, only cheaper. Im also going to buy a bulb(s). I would like some input from you guys, im either going to buy one HPS bulb that are color corrected to give more light in the blue spectrum, or buy one MH and HPS, and switch when going from veg to bloom. What are your opinions? Is it better to switch or is it better to have a HPS with extra light in the blue spectrum from start to finish? I particulary have the AGRO type bulbs in mind when thinking about color corrected bulbs. I will be buying from hydroponics.eu , so its the 400W bulbs from that site im thinking about.

LGHT · Jul 29, 2009

I read quit a few articles and information online and I ended up with a lot more equipment then I thought I would, but I'm confident the extra equipment will make a difference.

To start the seeds I use 2 40 CFL bulbs in a small box. Once they are about 3-4" (a week or so old) I put them in a 400 watt MH, but I use a full spectrum bulb from Eye hortilux so it produces light in ALL color spectrum while focusing on light for vegetative growth. I know they are a bit more, but if your going to do it do it right. Once they get around a foot (about 3 weeks old) up the anti to a 1000 watt MH full spectrum and from there when they start showing flowers (about 4-6 weeks) I go to a 1000 watt HPS to get them to fruit. This is my first year so I have a lot to learn, but I found a lot of specific info at the maximum yeild website that is really focused on how to got get the MAXIMUM YEILD. Now you don't have to follow there info or suggestions, but a lot of other articles I read online seem to support all of there posted info so it works for me. Here are some charts and info you may want to read up on.

Getting Started: Lighting For Indoor Crops

HID Lighting De-Mystified (a little)

The Digital Sun: Better Light for Better Results

LEDs: Lighting for Hyperspace Crops or Just Hype?

lavish · Jul 31, 2009

Thanks for the help. Ive already read all the Maximum Yield magazines. Its one of my favorite magazines!

I have the HID book by van patten, but still, im not sure exactly which bulb to choose, theres so many MH's and HPS to choose from. It would be nice to find a color corrected (HPS or MH) bulb that works well from start to finish....

qbvbsite · Jul 31, 2009

Hey,
I have just use Shop lights (4 tubes at 4') for the germination and sprouting then I put them under a 400W HPS. I got 7 plants under there and they are doing great... starting to flower now

.

--James

LGHT · Jul 31, 2009

lavish said:
Thanks for the help. Ive already read all the Maximum Yield magazines. Its one of my favorite magazines! I have the HID book by van patten, but still, im not sure exactly which bulb to choose, theres so many MH's and HPS to choose from. It would be nice to find a color corrected (HPS or MH) bulb that works well from start to finish....

Your never going to find a start to finish light because there are just too many spectrum of light to cover for proper growth depending on stage. The closest thing I found was the eye hortilux full spectrum bulbs that give you focused light, but also have light in the other spectrum as well. You only need 2 bulbs, one for flowering and 1 for fruiting.

wordwiz · Jul 31, 2009

LGHT said:
Your never going to find a start to finish light because there are just too many spectrum of light to cover for proper growth depending on stage.

Look at some of the experiments done at greenpinelane.com

Mike

theHippySeedCo · Aug 1, 2009

doesn't really Matter which type light, look

Orig had tent with HPS note the Orangish Glow

Forward a bit,, heres a 7 pod clone now But the light is White as have MH going

hey Leslie, here is ya Mulio.. again the MH,, they Love it

Bizzare thing, here is a Bhut. now its under Metal Halide and 18/6 light cycle. flowering to the Max and more flowers/buds than the 2 yr old mothers in ground,, they Love HID

as usual doing things back to front by using the HPS 1st they just in Coir in Pots in saucers nothing spectacular and water every couple days.. given a few to Timmmy as got too many plus see how they go outside now from inside a tent.

so either do, i prefer MH even though less Lumen output

huntsman · Aug 8, 2009

Hi LGHT -

Two questions, please:

Is the 400w globe directly above the plants, or can it be from one side?
Unless I misread the table below, it appears that the 400HPS is 30cm above the top of the plants! Please clarify as I am about to redo my lighting set up.

LGHT said:
I read quit a few articles and information online and I ended up with a lot more equipment then I thought I would, but I'm confident the extra equipment will make a difference.

To start the seeds I use 2 40 CFL bulbs in a small box. Once they are about 3-4" (a week or so old) I put them in a 400 watt MH, but I use a full spectrum bulb from Eye hortilux so it produces light in ALL color spectrum while focusing on light for vegetative growth. I know they are a bit more, but if your going to do it do it right. Once they get around a foot (about 3 weeks old) up the anti to a 1000 watt MH full spectrum and from there when they start showing flowers (about 4-6 weeks) I go to a 1000 watt HPS to get them to fruit. This is my first year so I have a lot to learn, but I found a lot of specific info at the maximum yeild website that is really focused on how to got get the MAXIMUM YEILD. Now you don't have to follow there info or suggestions, but a lot of other articles I read online seem to support all of there posted info so it works for me. Here are some charts and info you may want to read up on.

Getting Started: Lighting For Indoor Crops

HID Lighting De-Mystified (a little)

The Digital Sun: Better Light for Better Results

LEDs: Lighting for Hyperspace Crops or Just Hype?

LGHT · Aug 10, 2009

huntsman said:
Hi LGHT -

Two questions, please:

Is the 400w globe directly above the plants, or can it be from one side?

Unless I misread the table below, it appears that the 400HPS is 30cm above the top of the plants! Please clarify as I am about to redo my lighting set up.

Lamp distance to plant canopy is shown in Inches and the 400 reads 9-12" give or take a few centimeters. However I have found that to be too close unless you have a sealed enclosure with an exhaust fan sucking the hot air off of the bulb and being vented outside of the grow room / container. I have found a good distance to be around 18" when I only had a strong floor fan venting the hit air up and out of the closet. However when I got my cool tube the amount of heat given off the fan decreased about 80% and I now have my plants about 6" away and can't even feel the heat from the bulb that close. So it all depends on the type of hood you have and the setup your running.

As far as the bulb location it depends on what type of bulb you get. Some bulbs are made to work vertically and some horizontally. I have a standard vertical bulb that works on top of the plants. However I noticed a lot of the lower leaves drop off because the top shades them. I have read that large grow rooms have most of the light on top of the plants, but also may hang 1 / 2 between the plants to ensure the lower leaves get light as well. However unless you have a dedicated large room that's properly vented that would generate a lot of heat.

huntsman · Aug 11, 2009

Thanks for the clarification ~

Looks like I will actually be better off with fluoros for my stacked system, though...

BTW...do you know how many Kelvins your 400W puts out? Ours are waaaay too hot to put within 48" of plants, so perhaps they are different...??

LGHT · Aug 11, 2009

huntsman said:
BTW...do you know how many Kelvins your 400W puts out? Ours are waaaay too hot to put within 48" of plants, so perhaps they are different...??

I don't think the lamp type matters as much as the type of ventilation you have setup. If you don't have any ventilation or fan to remove the hot air anything lamp will be too hot and if you have your plants 48" away from the light your probably only getting say 20% of the actually light to the plants any need to reconsider using HID lamps and just stick with a bunch of CFL lights. I use the eye hortilux series only as I like to ensure a broad range of light to my plants. You can find the link here.

http://www.eyehortilux.com/tb/superhps/EQS-N-52-78-66620.pdf

The Hollyberry Lady · Aug 11, 2009

Hello, Pepper Pals:

I have a 400W metal Halide system, and it's awesome! I use a SunMaster warm Deluxe full-spectrum bulb, rich in both green and blue, plus orange and red light - to support germination, vegetative growth and flowering.

This is one great forum! Looking forward to exploring more...

: )

wordwiz · Aug 11, 2009

LGHT said:
I don't think the lamp type matters as much as the type of ventilation you have setup. If you don't have any ventilation or fan to remove the hot air anything lamp will be too hot and if you have your plants 48" away from the light your probably only getting say 20% of the actually light to the plants

Actually, if you are using shop light types of fluros, you can place them inches away. I've had leaves touching the lights and didn't have any harm done.

Mike

huntsman · Aug 12, 2009

The Hollyberry Lady said:
Hello, Pepper Pals:

I have a 400W metal Halide system, and it's awesome! I use a SunMaster warm Deluxe full-spectrum bulb, rich in both green and blue, plus orange and red light - to support germination, vegetative growth and flowering.

This is one great forum! Looking forward to exploring more...

: )

Hi Holly -

What is the Kelvin rating of your bulb?

Do you have pics, perhaps?

Welcome to the site!

lavish · Aug 12, 2009

Welcome Hollyberry Lady! Im also thinking about going with a MH start-finish. Chilis flowers for months and months while also having a lot of veg growth, im not sure but it seems to me that a MH would suit that purpose better.

The Hollyberry Lady · Aug 12, 2009

Pics will come later, and not sure what a kelvin rating is...

Yes, peppers grow wonderfully under my MH system. I only use it during the cold months - it's out of use now.

Thanks for the warm welcome!

: )

LGHT · Aug 12, 2009

The Hollyberry Lady said:
I use a SunMaster warm Deluxe full-spectrum bulb, rich in both green and blue, plus orange and red light - to support germination, vegetative growth and flowering.

I did quit a bit of research on bulbs before I finalized my setup and unfortunately the sunmaster warm delux bulb although a full spectrum bulb, it's rather meek in a comparison of the eye hortilux full spectrum bulb. Yes you can grow a plant from start to finish and get fruit using full spectrum bulbs, but are you getting THE BEST possible results? For me it's not about getting results it's about getting the biggest and most possible results not just results. If you look at the light spectrum in the eye hortilux against the sunmaster you will see a big difference. see below:

Spectral Output of SunMaster Warm Delux

Spectral output of Hortilux Blue

So although the sunmaster will grow plants and fruit it's quit a bit less of a "bulb" over the eye hortilux. However it is about 40% cheaper so if your looking to save money it may be a better choice, as long as you realize your getting half the bulb for the money you saved.

The Hollyberry Lady · Aug 12, 2009

There's always going to be bigger and better - no matter what.

However, I am very happy with my bulb and the results it produces. Not too interested in comparisons. I have a thorough book on indoor grow lights and I am fully aware of what's out there.

Thanks for the info, but I am pretty happy. Wait until you see my plants this Winter...

: )

LGHT · Aug 12, 2009

I just wanted to clarify for lavish and the others that the sunmaster although will produce results isn't (in my opinion) the best bulb out there. Some of use actually like to get the biggest and best bulbs, (and results) even though the cost may be twice as much so I just wanted to make sure members are aware that the eye hortilux seems to be a better bulb if considering a full spectrum solution. Hopefully someone will chime in and give me an even BETTER solution as I can only spend so much time researching and i'm always on the hunt for bigger and better..

The Hollyberry Lady · Aug 13, 2009

Not me - I am totally satisfied with my HID system. My plants are stunning, year after year. Also love it that my one bulb supports every stage, rather than having to switch bulbs - which I hate.

Everyone has their own personal preference of what they like, and that's ok. I certainly will not be convinced that my system and bulb aren't totally wonderful, because my plants tell a completely different story!

Over winter, some things I've produced under my terrific lamp, are...

~ sweet/hot peppers
~ tomatoes
~ strawberries
~ lettuce
~ basil
~ eggplant
~ goji berry
~ dwarf cucumber (pot luck)
~ marigolds
~ geraniums
~ pansies
~ lotus in a container pond
~ solanum pseudocapsicum
~ lilies
~ roses

The list goes on and on. I will show you guys this winter how truly awesome my bulb is...