I would certainly be interested in published studies of non-cannabis related side-effects of trace Neem ingestion in edible plants and their fruits, though. I'm not intellectually dishonest - only thoroughly unconvinced.
IMO, Cold Pressed Neem or Clarified Neem is probably the best pesticide you can use on any digestible garden product.Max Nihil said:With edible plants I use the clarified hydrophobic extract and have found it to be extremely effective.
Many people avoid using the cold pressed oil.
Neem is chemically complex and not extremely well understood despite the chemically naive glib perspective being promoted by Solid7.
If you want to avoid ingesting an untested compound systemic insecticide that is linked to organ failure then avoid the cold pressed oil and other formulations that have a high content of azadirachtin.
If you don't care about feeding yourself and or other people an untested systemic insecticide linked to organ failure then take Solid7s advice and avoid using the clarified extract and use cold pressed oil or other formulations instead.
Yesterday I sprayed cuttings with a formulation that is 0.9% clarified hydrophobic extract of neem with 0.02% pyrethrins and 0.2% piperonyl hydroxide. I would not want to ingest this material, breathe it or get it on my skin however it works very very well and it washes off well. I use it to remove fungi and pests from cuttings of plants that perform well so I can grow them indoors and use them as mother plants and isolate them.
All of neem products work and that includes the clarified extract.
Absolutely no doubt about it. The point to consider, though, is that if the aza is so effective at low doses, why are the products that are using aza, adding it to their formulations at approximately the same levels that they're found naturally? Why wouldn't there just be a lower dose of aza, in a more affordable product? Or a safer product? Or, or, or, or, or...acs1 said:Btw, 100% of the Aza is not taken out of Clarified, a small amount is left I was told, at least as far as Southern Ag is concerned. An inexpensive Alcohol extraction process is usually used to 'clarify' neem oil and remove 90% of the aza, leaving behind traces of both aza and alcohol.
Max Nihil said:Neem supplements typically have the aza removed.
Demented said:If I'm not mistaken, the clarified only works by suffocation if it coats the insect, as would any suspended oil solution do if you smothered something in it.
I still don't see what is so bad about Azadirachtin.
What does the body metabolize Azadirachtin into?
Most defiantly, got some plants/seedlings for you (warning... they're organic & they've been CP neem'd), should help restart your FL garden...solid7 said:As long as it's just warm, and not hot, you'll be fine. But if your Neem is too cold, it will be harder to mix, and can mix to the consistency of snot or fish slime.
Next time I'm in your neighborhood, maybe you could show me?
That is a common misconception.Demented said:If I'm not mistaken, the clarified only works by suffocation if it coats the insect, as would any suspended oil solution do if you smothered something in it.
Which compounds specifically are you referring to that make it effective?Max Nihil said:That is a common misconception.
There are a number of chemical compounds in neem with a range of activities as well as different solubility.
This is the reason that neem oil with the Aza removed is used as a health supplement by itself.
I do not know why aza is linked to organ failure, only that it has been and I am not the type of person who would recommend that people ingest something that has been linked to such things even without a clear causation being known.
But then again I am not selling it either.
So I have no conflict of interest regarding a product I make money on through recommending and selling it.
.Max Nihil said:I do not know why aza is linked to organ failure, only that it has been and I am not the type of person who would recommend that people ingest something that has been linked to such things even without a clear causation being known.
Max Nihil said:Neem is chemically complex and I strongly get the impression you may not have a strong understanding of chemistry and solubility.
Max Nihil said:Nearly every argument you have made denouncing neem extract is so overly simplistic that it is strange to me that you would be so aggressively arguing such a glib position.
I think you're correct. As AzaMax, thats supposedly devoid of all the other parts of cold pressed neem other than AZA, and AzaMax does not kill mold, powdery mildew, rusty mold, sooty city mold, fungus,etc, and neem oil either one, cold pressed or Clarified neem oil does kill mold, powdery mildew, rusty mold, sooty city mold, fungus,etc. Seems with AZA out of CN, something else is active in clarified neem against the fungus types. What that might be, got no clue......Max Nihil said:There are a number of chemical compounds in neem with a range of activities as well as different solubility.
Demented said:One is an insecticide that works by messing with an insects natural hormone cycles, the other is an oil that coats the surface of something, blocking it'a access to hydrogen and oxygen.
Doesn't exactly need to be something else in the neem oil that works. The fact that it'a an oil is why it works.
Replace it with an equal quantity of a cooking oil that doesn't spoil easily. Betcha it'll work nearly the same.