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COLD PRESSED NEEM OIL
- Thread starter acs1
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IMO, Cold Pressed Neem or Clarified Neem is probably the best pesticide you can use on any digestible garden product.Max Nihil said:
After using both for years now, can say without a doubt, Cold Pressed Neem Oil works long after the spray with repellent type properties for a much longer time period than Clarified Neem.
As far as Clarified being better for consumption than Cold Pressed, not so sure of that.
With Cold pressed and a simple soap like Dr Boners, thats all you get. Is it ok to smoke either of those,,? is it ok to eat either of those..?
Well, was talking with a customer, that also has a garden, I've given her pepper plants in the past. We got on the subject of garden pests and I mentioned Neem oil. She seemed shocked, then told me she takes Neem as a supplement for over 10 years and can't believe it would kill garden pests. She is a vegan that looks 20 years younger than she is... She will start using neem oil in her garden.
As for Clarified being better for consumption of any sort, well if you look at the 30% 'inert ingredients' there are adjuvants in Clarified Neem Oil commercial products, there are surfactants, spreader stickers, crop oils, anti-foaming materials, buffering agents, and compatibility agents. Surfactants are adjuvants that facilitate and accentuate the emulsifying, dispersing, spreading, wetting, or other surface modifying properties of oils/liquids."
So guess the question is, whats better for consumption, AZA or the dozens of possibly non organic chemicals being used as adjuvants in Clarified Neem Oil commercial products...? Looking at my new bottle of AG Southern Clarified Neem Oil, now the OMRI organic certification its always had, is missing from the bottle.
If you look into what types of chemicals are being used in adjuvants, thats a whole lot of other stuff that may or may not be great for human consumption compared to Aza...
Btw, 100% of the Aza is not taken out of Clarified, a small amount is left I was told, at least as far as Southern Ag is concerned. An inexpensive Alcohol extraction process is usually used to 'clarify' neem oil and remove 90% of the aza, leaving behind traces of both aza and alcohol.
Wondering what that pepper you buy at the grocery store has had sprayed on it during its life span...?
jmo
Absolutely no doubt about it. The point to consider, though, is that if the aza is so effective at low doses, why are the products that are using aza, adding it to their formulations at approximately the same levels that they're found naturally? Why wouldn't there just be a lower dose of aza, in a more affordable product? Or a safer product? Or, or, or, or, or...acs1 said:
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The implication to a product with low doses of aza, would be that - contrary to published information - aza is not, in fact, the most effective ingredient. Again, that leads me back to the question of why a product like AzaMax exists (and why it works so damn well).
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For the record, I never once said that the clarified doesn't work - just that it works in a different way, and not in the way that I prefer it to. If you like spraying more often, go for it. Typically, I'm spraying for mites, and it's just really fucken hard to get the spray in all the places that they might be hiding.
Max Nihil said:
Where did you find this information? I looked up a handful, and saw nothing of the sort. I, myself, also know people who have consumed cold pressed Neem for many years.
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Here is a link to a published study that actually defines safe limits for Azadirachtin (although it is in the context of medicinal use against malaria and parasites):
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4791507/
If I'm not mistaken, the clarified only works by suffocation if it coats the insect, as would any suspended oil solution do if you smothered something in it.
I still don't see what is so bad about Azadirachtin.
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/azadirachtin-ext.html
What does the body metabolize Azadirachtin into?
I still don't see what is so bad about Azadirachtin.
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/azadirachtin-ext.html
What does the body metabolize Azadirachtin into?
Demented said:
That study basically illustrates that for effects to be shown in mammals, it had to be administered constantly, in some fairly high doses (between 2,000 and 5,000mg/kg) for weeks on end. It also said that all of the effects were shown to be reversible.
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Not 100% sure what substances it is metabolized into - have never really seen that info.
That is a common misconception.Demented said:
There are a number of chemical compounds in neem with a range of activities as well as different solubility.
This is the reason that neem oil with the Aza removed is used as a health supplement by itself.
I do not know why aza is linked to organ failure, only that it has been and I am not the type of person who would recommend that people ingest something that has been linked to such things even without a clear causation being known.
But then again I am not selling it either.
So I have no conflict of interest regarding a product I make money on through recommending and selling it.
No offense, but this is... a patent filing. It makes the claim for a unique and novel invention, and for around $600, any of us could file one. We wouldn't use this as any sort of scientific basis. It's just a document for lawyers (and people with enough money and time who hire them) to dispute. And if it's not disputed, it doesn't make it authoritative...
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And what about cannabis? Would your recommend that people ingest that? Your previous statements would strongly indicate that you are a grower and user - or at the very least, operate on opinions based in that growing discipline. I am simply trying to establish logical continuity, here...
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After that last answer, it's a good time to revisit some of your previous statements.
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.Max Nihil said:
And what about cannabis? Would your recommend that people ingest that? Your previous statements would strongly indicate that you are a grower and user - or at the very least, operate on opinions based in that growing discipline. I am simply trying to establish logical continuity, here...
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Max Nihil said:
Max Nihil said:
After that last answer, it's a good time to revisit some of your previous statements.
I think you're correct. As AzaMax, thats supposedly devoid of all the other parts of cold pressed neem other than AZA, and AzaMax does not kill mold, powdery mildew, rusty mold, sooty city mold, fungus,etc, and neem oil either one, cold pressed or Clarified neem oil does kill mold, powdery mildew, rusty mold, sooty city mold, fungus,etc. Seems with AZA out of CN, something else is active in clarified neem against the fungus types. What that might be, got no clue......Max Nihil said:
One is an insecticide that works by messing with an insects natural hormone cycles, the other is an oil that coats the surface of something, blocking it'a access to hydrogen and oxygen.
Doesn't exactly need to be something else in the neem oil that works. The fact that it'a an oil is why it works.
Replace it with an equal quantity of a cooking oil that doesn't spoil easily. Betcha it'll work nearly the same.
Doesn't exactly need to be something else in the neem oil that works. The fact that it'a an oil is why it works.
Replace it with an equal quantity of a cooking oil that doesn't spoil easily. Betcha it'll work nearly the same.
Demented said:
I do think that there are *some* other properties in the extract, and I do think that this is fairly well established. I've been purported to say things that I didn't actually say. But to be clear, I believe that clarified Neem must be regarded as a strictly horticultural oil, YET may have SOME *residual* (as in greatly reduced) properties of the cold pressed variety - as acs1 pointed out, is dependent largely on how thorough the extraction. Speaking in generalities, I wouldn't use just any old clarified Neem product, and assume that it's a workhorse.
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I don't believe that the 2 are equal, and I certainly (based on years of use) don't believe that the clarified Neem is a superior insecticide. My position is, was, and will be - until proven otherwise - that the cold pressed has a higher concentration of the elements or compounds that are most effective in my sub-tropical climate, against the pests that I target. Seeing that acs1 and I share a climate, and have been through the Neem exercise in tandem, I'm fairly certain that we have a relatively solid basis for the opinions, observations, questions, doubts, etc, presented in this lengthy dialogue.
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Clarified Neem extract will *most certainly* outperform other types of oil, but again, I don't think the *residual* effects of the decomposed extract are strong enough, or long enough lasting to justify using it on a wicked infestation in a warm climate (hence, why I regard it as a horticultural oil, and contact only). If one were to measure the effectiveness of the cold pressed vs the clarified on a tough infestation, and see how many applications of each were required to bring it under control, I think that would be more telling. I apply the cold pressed once every 1.5-2 weeks, tops. I'm not a fan of foliar applications of anything, if at all possible. In our crushing humidity, it's enough for a plant to fight for proper transpiration, without being bogged down by extra shit.