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Disgusted, outraged, I really dont know what to feel

LGHT said:
Although I can see how the cop would see the guy as a possible threat and that he did reach toward his waist and because it was dark could have had a gun, but what I don't understand is even if he did there is NO way you can turn your right hand backward and actually shoot the gun. I mean think about it turn your back toward someone while sitting in a chair and see if you can pull out a pen from your pocket and point it at the person behind you. Even IF he could have shot the gun all cop cars have bullet proof glass and I'm not sure, but I believe the doors also have bullet proof protection. I mean seriously if you thought you life was in danger why not just get in the car and run the guy over? Why not just sit until the guy gets on the ground when you feel your safe. Why not do anything except pull the trigger?? The problem here is the cop had a LOT of other possible options, but for whatever reason he thought it was best to jump out and shoot. I would chalk it up to piss poor training and bad decision making on the cops part because the incident clearly could have been avoided and handled a LOT better.
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Cop cars do not have bullet proof glass nor do they have bullet proof doors. Not most of them anyways. I think it is an expensive luxury option that most departments can't afford. And what's the difference in shooting a potentially lethal suspect and running him over with your car? Both are deadly force. When you are faced with a situation you DON'T always have time to sit and wait and hope for the best. There were NOT a lot of other options.
 
Are you kidding me you mean to say not all cop cars have bullet proof glass? I won't say i'm positive, but if a cop car can afford to have on-board video camera's i'm sure the department can afford bullet proof glass. Not sure if you realize it, but bullet proof glass is also CHEAP! The cost of getting a replacement sheild for a humvee is only $400 bucks and includes shipping!! If I paid the cost to get it fixed by a dealer it would have been more than double! The key is IF the car did have bullet proof glass and he just stays put IF the guy starts shooting at him THEN he can just run the guy over and wouldn't be on trial because the guy actually had a gun and started shooting at him. Obviously if he just ran the guy over because he flinched he would still be on trial again bad training. The only reason he was faced with that situation is because he put himself in it. Again PISS POOR TRAINING, if he's trained to NOT put himself in a bad situation then he won't be forced to make a bad decision. How many times do cops pull someone over and just sit and run the plates, call for backup, order the guy on the ground, and THEN get out. You can make excuses if you want, but it's all on tape and that cop put him self in a bad situation and panicked. Plan and simple
 
From watching the video I think the situation could have been handled better on both sides.
But when it comes right down to it, the officer has to have self preservation as his top priority.
Its a shame the guy was shot but I think it could have been avoided by putting his arms in the air.
Being a police officer is a very dangerous and demanding job that many people don't totally understand.

I've also seen the complete oppisite of this situation on police videos and could never understand.
Videos when they are chasing some crazing maniacs in cars forever without fireing a shot and during the whole chase they can potentially harm and kill many innocent people.
In those situations I think if you refuse to stop and go all GTA you should be stopped with deadly force if needed before they kill some innocent person.


Just my opinion of course as everyone here has one...
 
LGHT said:
Are you kidding me you mean to say not all cop cars have bullet proof glass? I won't say i'm positive, but if a cop car can afford to have on-board video camera's i'm sure the department can afford bullet proof glass. Not sure if you realize it, but bullet proof glass is also CHEAP! The cost of getting a replacement sheild for a humvee is only $400 bucks and includes shipping!! If I paid the cost to get it fixed by a dealer it would have been more than double! The key is IF the car did have bullet proof glass and he just stays put IF the guy starts shooting at him THEN he can just run the guy over and wouldn't be on trial because the guy actually had a gun and started shooting at him. Obviously if he just ran the guy over because he flinched he would still be on trial again bad training. The only reason he was faced with that situation is because he put himself in it. Again PISS POOR TRAINING, if he's trained to NOT put himself in a bad situation then he won't be forced to make a bad decision. How many times do cops pull someone over and just sit and run the plates, call for backup, order the guy on the ground, and THEN get out. You can make excuses if you want, but it's all on tape and that cop put him self in a bad situation and panicked. Plan and simple
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The cop didn't put himself in that situation. The bikers did when they took off. Everything that followed flowed from that decision on their part.

The dude is paralyzed and that sucks, but he would still be walking if him and his buddy didn't play NHRA with their bikes.
 
Personally I can't think of a single American Police Department that outfits their cruisers with bullet proof anything. Come on guys...that's only in the movies.

As for the idiot turning and shooting. There have been studies into just how fast that can actually occur and you would be really surprised. Plus the idiot in the video looked to me like he was already at a slight angle and a simple twist of the hips and he could have toasted that officer. Like I have said it is now going to boil down to how credible he testifies in court.
 
Pepperfreak said:
Personally I can't think of a single American Police Department that outfits their cruisers with bullet proof anything. Come on guys...that's only in the movies.

As for the idiot turning and shooting. There have been studies into just how fast that can actually occur and you would be really surprised. Plus the idiot in the video looked to me like he was already at a slight angle and a simple twist of the hips and he could have toasted that officer. Like I have said it is now going to boil down to how credible he testifies in court.
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It's extremely unfortunate that this even got to court! Whats the world coming to when a police officer can't even do his/her job with out being crusified for it!! And Bullet proof glass Bwaaaaahahahahaha too many movies kids! Again all he had to do was put his hands up when instructed and he'd still be riding his bike and walking today.
 
Skydiver said:
The cop didn't put himself in that situation. The bikers did when they took off. Everything that followed flowed from that decision on their part.

The dude is paralyzed and that sucks, but he would still be walking if him and his buddy didn't play NHRA with their bikes.
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Yeah your right Shoot every kid in the back that has every been on a motorcycle and thought they could get away from a cop lol. Man I can't believe that you guys don't think the cop was responsible for his own mistake. Luckily the justice system isn't that ignorant and will obviously convict him of a his crimes.
 
Well I dont think he was quite a kid. Wasn't this a 24 year old grown man?
At what age is someone considered an adult and responsible for their actions?
 
LGHT said:
Are you kidding me you mean to say not all cop cars have bullet proof glass? I won't say i'm positive, but if a cop car can afford to have on-board video camera's i'm sure the department can afford bullet proof glass. Not sure if you realize it, but bullet proof glass is also CHEAP! The cost of getting a replacement sheild for a humvee is only $400 bucks and includes shipping!! If I paid the cost to get it fixed by a dealer it would have been more than double! The key is IF the car did have bullet proof glass and he just stays put IF the guy starts shooting at him THEN he can just run the guy over and wouldn't be on trial because the guy actually had a gun and started shooting at him. Obviously if he just ran the guy over because he flinched he would still be on trial again bad training. The only reason he was faced with that situation is because he put himself in it. Again PISS POOR TRAINING, if he's trained to NOT put himself in a bad situation then he won't be forced to make a bad decision. How many times do cops pull someone over and just sit and run the plates, call for backup, order the guy on the ground, and THEN get out. You can make excuses if you want, but it's all on tape and that cop put him self in a bad situation and panicked. Plan and simple
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It's pretty obvious you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Cop cars are NOT bullet proof. Period. So there goes your IF. The cop is not going to just sit in his car and wait for the retard on the bike to start shooting and THEN react. He did what he was trained to do. Idiot on bike runs, cop chases. Bad guy stops. Cop gets out of car and at gun point orders the bad guy to get on the ground or put his hands up or whatever the order was. Dumbass doesn't listen, keeps his hands down and out of sight and starts to turn towards the cop. Cop shoots in self defense. Bad guy goes down. Too bad for him but he should have not ran first of all but when he decided to stop he should have listened to orders as they were given.

There is a HUGE difference in a traffic stop and a pursuit. I am not sure where you got your cop training but please let us know because I sure as hell don't want to go through your jurisdiction if you think that your post is the way to do police work.
 
As soon as the lights go on the guy stops at the stop sign. As soon as the cop yells at the guy he turns with his hand on his hip, all bikers put their right hand on their hip with their left hand on the clutch. Its instinctive. The cop has been cited before for using too much force and has been reprimanded more than once because he was abusive.

The biker was drinking, said he didnt think that was a cop behind him and if you are drinking then I can certainly see why you would not notice the light-bar. But that is still no reason to shoot someone in the back.

Heres to hoping the cop gets what he deserves, 11 years in prison with some scumbags that he put there before. We supposedly hold these people to a higher standard than the rest of us so when something like this or the wire tapping charge on the guy who had a camera on his helmet happens, justice needs to be served. Give the kid a dui, not a life sentence of a wheelchair. Attempted murder should be on the docket.
 
1. Sirens blaring, bike engine running. I wasnt there, I dont own a Harley, but I think even if the cop was YELLING, it may be difficult to hear exactly what was being said. Sirens point forward after all.

2. Bike is heavy, handle bars on angle. Removing hads from bars may have resulted in bike falling with suspect under it. Reasonable excuse for not raising LEFT hand.

3. US citizens (rightly or wrongly -- no judgement here) have the right to bear arms in the US. This means ANYONE may have a weapon, from an air pistol to a freakin' hand cannon stashed on their person. Cop is RIGHT to assume this dude had a weapon. Here in Australia, we do not have this right, particularly with regard to hand guns. As such, police here behave differently and would assume that the biker was unarmed.

Sad? Yes.
Unjustified? No.
 
millworkman said:
As soon as the lights go on the guy stops at the stop sign. As soon as the cop yells at the guy he turns with his hand on his hip, all bikers put their right hand on their hip with their left hand on the clutch. Its instinctive. The cop has been cited before for using too much force and has been reprimanded more than once because he was abusive.

The biker was drinking, said he didnt think that was a cop behind him and if you are drinking then I can certainly see why you would not notice the light-bar. But that is still no reason to shoot someone in the back.

Heres to hoping the cop gets what he deserves, 11 years in prison with some scumbags that he put there before. We supposedly hold these people to a higher standard than the rest of us so when something like this or the wire tapping charge on the guy who had a camera on his helmet happens, justice needs to be served. Give the kid a dui, not a life sentence of a wheelchair. Attempted murder should be on the docket.
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You mean he stops only after his friend wrecks and then he gets cut off by another cruiser nearly 30 seconds AFTER the lights and siren come on. As far as placing your hand on your hip as instinct...my instinct is to do what I am told to do when a cop with his weapon drawn is yelling at me.
 
millworkman said:
As soon as the lights go on the guy stops at the stop sign. As soon as the cop yells at the guy he turns with his hand on his hip, all bikers put their right hand on their hip with their left hand on the clutch. Its instinctive. The cop has been cited before for using too much force and has been reprimanded more than once because he was abusive.

The biker was drinking, said he didnt think that was a cop behind him and if you are drinking then I can certainly see why you would not notice the light-bar. But that is still no reason to shoot someone in the back.

Heres to hoping the cop gets what he deserves, 11 years in prison with some scumbags that he put there before. We supposedly hold these people to a higher standard than the rest of us so when something like this or the wire tapping charge on the guy who had a camera on his helmet happens, justice needs to be served. Give the kid a dui, not a life sentence of a wheelchair. Attempted murder should be on the docket.
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+1 Just because you are a police officer it doesn't mean you can shoot people and get away with it. I hope he dies in jail.
 
First off I want to know where the OP found this story? Hell, I live in Ohio and haven't seen this on any of our news channels. If you are just trolling the internet for inflammatory stories and videos to post here, well...this isn't the place for that.

Secondly, we should all keep an open mind with such videos, because the dash camera is only showing you a 2 dimensional picture, not what was lived through in the 3 dimensional world that we all live in. Also, where are you getting your facts about his personnel record? I just tried a real quick search and didn't find anything about his past records.

I am not saying whether he was justified or not, THAT IS UP TO THE JURY. Or have you forgotten about how our judicial system works? ALL PEOPLE ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
 
PF, being an avid rider, I am a member of many motorcycle forums and this has come up in many of them. Just wanted to share with others and get other points of view.
 
millworkman said:
PF, being an avid rider, I am a member of many motorcycle forums and this has come up in many of them. Just wanted to share with others and get other points of view.
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Well, I just hate seeing a lynch mob forming even before the jury gets to finish hearing all of the evidence. Keep in mind you, I or anyone else here or on any other forum was not there. I believe that this was a tragedy and I have faith that justice will prevail.
 
Call me a part of a lynch mob if you like but the fact remains that he shot an un-armed man, IN THE BACK! If it were your son/daughter getting shot i bet your attitude would change somewhat ;)
 
FadeToBlack said:
How sdid the officer know he was unarmed?
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He didn't. IMO that doesn't change anything, he chose to be a cop and knew the dangers involved when he signed up. I am pretty sure that in the cop handbook shooting unarmed people is a no-no. I have seen plenty of footage where a person is armed and the cop doesn't shoot them but this cop is just a trigger happy jerk IMO.
 
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