Oxygen is the biggest enemy in this whole process Pepper Junky...every step of the way you need to be mindful of how oxygen/air might get in ; and in the air there often dwells a yeast of some description which simply wants to grow/live (like the rest of us ) .I would suggest you buy a couple of jars designed for fermentation (just to see how easy it can be)...these jars have a double security system which greatly helps your chances of keeping oxygen out...some weight/stone circle (on top of cheesecloth type screen to keep out smaller particles works well)is used to keep solids under the liquids and an airlock is fixed through the screw lid as well...and if you use a good starter you need only use the salt level that is palatable to you...in my case i generally use 2% with no problems. Good luck and keep going.
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tutorial Fermenting Peppers 101
- Thread starter RocketMan
- Start date
Oxygen is the biggest enemy in this whole process Pepper Junky...every step of the way you need to be mindful of how oxygen/air might get in ; and in the air there often dwells a yeast of some description which simply wants to grow/live (like the rest of us ) .I would suggest you buy a couple of jars designed for fermentation (just to see how easy it can be)...these jars have a double security system which greatly helps your chances of keeping oxygen out...some weight/stone circle (on top of cheesecloth type screen to keep out smaller particles works well)is used to keep solids under the liquids and an airlock is fixed through the screw lid as well...and if you use a good starter you need only use the salt level that is palatable to you...in my case i generally use 2% with no problems. Good luck and keep going.
Here's a fermented cayenne mash I did - http://pabloshotsauc...-mash-follow-up
I'm also a little curious why so many mentions of using yeast as a starter for lactobacillic fermentation? Yeast fermentation which produces alcohol and CO2 as a byproduct has nothing to do with lactic acid fermentation. OP is confusing the two. Yeast is used for wine/beer, lactobacillus is used for sauerkraut/peppers.
No. Sourdough contains both Lactobacillus cultures as well as yeast. It is a heterolactic fermenation. You don't want yeast in a pepper mash, only Lactobacillus cultures. You can achieve this by either introducing lactobacillus cultures via yogurt cultures, or via spontaneous fermentation through contact with the air.
Please stop confusing ethanol fermention (using yeast) with lactic acid fermentation (using lactobacillus cultures) - they are different, and used for different purposes. What is being accomplished in the OP is a heterolactic fermentation which uses both yeast and lactobacillus, which I don't believe is desirable for peppers.
During fermentation, pyruvate is metabolised to various compounds. Homolactic fermentation is the production of lactic acid from pyruvate; alcoholic fermentation is the conversion of pyruvate into ethanol and carbon dioxide; and heterolactic fermentation is the production of lactic acid as well as other acids and alcohols.
I'm also a little curious why so many mentions of using yeast as a starter for lactobacillic fermentation? Yeast fermentation which produces alcohol and CO2 as a byproduct has nothing to do with lactic acid fermentation. OP is confusing the two. Yeast is used for wine/beer, lactobacillus is used for sauerkraut/peppers.
No. Sourdough contains both Lactobacillus cultures as well as yeast. It is a heterolactic fermenation. You don't want yeast in a pepper mash, only Lactobacillus cultures. You can achieve this by either introducing lactobacillus cultures via yogurt cultures, or via spontaneous fermentation through contact with the air.
Please stop confusing ethanol fermention (using yeast) with lactic acid fermentation (using lactobacillus cultures) - they are different, and used for different purposes. What is being accomplished in the OP is a heterolactic fermentation which uses both yeast and lactobacillus, which I don't believe is desirable for peppers.
During fermentation, pyruvate is metabolised to various compounds. Homolactic fermentation is the production of lactic acid from pyruvate; alcoholic fermentation is the conversion of pyruvate into ethanol and carbon dioxide; and heterolactic fermentation is the production of lactic acid as well as other acids and alcohols.
What exactly is undesirable about yeast?
Pablo I believe that when the sourdough starter separates the hooch contains the Lactibacillus and the bottom part the yeast. While there may still be some yeast in it there's not enough to cause issues. At least in all the mashes I've made using this method I've not had any problems and besides you also get to make some really great bread
Nothing if you're making bread or beer.
Yeah, that's way too much trouble to go through for LB fermentation, unless you just really want to make bread afterwards.
Yeah, that's way too much trouble to go through for LB fermentation, unless you just really want to make bread afterwards.
Well, for me it's that I like Sourdough Bread and always have my starter around so, instead of having to go out and buy some other source of starter I can just grab the sourdough and transfer some hooch over. As I said before I've never had a yeast issue using it or ever abusing it when I was starting out and learning. It isn't the only way I start mashes though. I use different starters just depending on what I feel like at the time. The great thing here is that there are so many different ways to start a mash that where ever you are and what ever the availability of ingredients there is a way you can start a mash going. If discussions like this help a new masher to make a decision on how to proceed then this thread has served it's intended purpose.
Cheers,
RM
Again, what's wrong with yeast? Been using yeast for a couple years now, learned it from my father in law who was doing it for a couple years before that. Great sauce, no off flavors like you get with lactobacillus. In my experience, yeast is FAR superior to LB.
Ok, you've peeked my interest, what kind of yeast are you using, bread or brewers yeast? Any process notes about using it vs lb?
So, Pablo, I'll ask you a third time, what's wrong with using yeast?
Thank you very much. I will heed your words, and am looking forward to trying again. As a homebrewer, I feel that I must make this happen. That'd be a pun if I were a vintner.
Glued to the yeast vs. LB thing... I don't see how yeast even comes into play. We're not trying to convert sugars to alcohol, right? Not sure what I'm missing here.
Alcohol has nothing to do with it, and the amount of sugars being processed doesn't produce that much alcohol. Mashing is about preserving for future use, and yeast does very similar things as LB, WITHOUT the sour taste.
Agh, even when I type questions in a public forum it seems pointed. Please know this isn't - I want to learn. Please explain what yeast does similarly to LB for preservation. I thought yeast's only function was to eat sugar and produce CO2 and alcohol. Could you point me to a link that might underline the science of what you're trying to put across?
Yeast works differently. LB produces acids, which creates additional ph impacts as a preservative. I use beer yeasts, which allow you to use ingredients that will decrease ph, but not produce a sour flavor like LB does. I make sauces that are perfectly safe from a ph standpoint, but taste like the peppers themselves, instead of something else. Different process, different results. IMO, a better tasting product.
Which variety of beer yeast do you use?
I'm going to have to delve into another branch of research here, as I was unaware that beer yeast significantly affected pH. Oh, so many wonderful complications.
I'm going to have to delve into another branch of research here, as I was unaware that beer yeast significantly affected pH. Oh, so many wonderful complications.