I've heard Bolivia, due to it's high number of wild varieties. .... but that was awhile back.
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I've heard Bolivia, due to it's high number of wild varieties. .... but that was awhile back.
I've read Bolivia too.
There was another article that mentioned that the natives were growing a superhot pepper on trinidad during colonial times. I'll see if I can find it.
There was another article that mentioned that the natives were growing a superhot pepper on trinidad during colonial times. I'll see if I can find it.
See this for the preceding info http://thehotpepper.com/topic/33289-hp22b/page__st__540#entry695014
So now im not a hater all of a sudden and pepperjoe likes this post i made.. Seems a tad I dunno whats the word schizophrenic maybe... I call the guy out, show his bias in his own words and then he likes it.
Unique testing, not the industry standard...
many record breakers, yep I can break my own records too by my own testing...
You just congratulated someone else on the hottest pepper in the world, admitting the reaper isnt..
You profit from sales of the reaper
You sir at this point sell nothing but snake oil. Have fun with the repercussions this causes you and your business partners.
Just keep in mind the federal trade commission requires proof before advertising. Tested with the industry standard method.
So now im not a hater all of a sudden and pepperjoe likes this post i made.. Seems a tad I dunno whats the word schizophrenic maybe... I call the guy out, show his bias in his own words and then he likes it.
And just to point out possible conflict of interest here in pepperjoe's postings Notice the part where he is a preferred vendor for them, so he stands to profit from this, and also notice on his linkden account and all over his website he touts being nominated as worlds most influential pepper grower while true, here he admits to never creating a new variety himself which should pretty easily preclude him from that but he uses that as a marketing tool. Since were in the interest of disclosure in this thread, I have no monetary or material interest in this ongoing debate.
Take it as face value but I love this comment,
"For the sake of disclosure…My interest in this is simple…I will probably be one of a few exclusive seed companies to have access to buy the seeds for the next Champion pepper. That’s an attractive option."
And then
"This new Worlds Hottest Pepper will only be available at two Seed Sources."
Sounds like he is one of two sources and stands to profit. So in the interest of protecting consumer opinion, Just read on before you buy!
PepperJoe Says:
Hey Jim,
First off thanks for the Post and clarification from your point of view.
Obviously we have a passion for our businesses in common.
Let me clarify as well.
I had lunch on Friday, Feb. 17th with two fellows that I met at a Home and Garden show and they requested this Business luncheon. We met at T-Bonz in Myrtle Beach.
They disclosed that they have the next Worlds Hottest Pepper that will go public soon. They want me to be a prefferred seed vendor with this pepper.
In THEIR opinion the testing for their pepper is more vigorous and extensive than any of the previous record holders.
I mentioned some other information that i received from them on a blog. It included the 50 poounds of peppers tested, 5 years of testing, the Trinidad/China question, Guiness Book costs up to $30,000 costs and the engineering of 600 Chile varieties.
I can’t validate any of this info personally, but I did then and still do view these guys as very credable and having integrity. Just my opinion, but I’m a pretty good judge of character. And their enthusiasm was contagious.
As far as creating 600 new varieties, I’ve never created a new variety myself , so I’m naive as to the process. (I have geneticly engineered peppers by keeping the best of the best specimen’s seeds for 30+ years).
My guess now in retrospect, is that the 600 new varieties aren’t stabalized. And I took the 5 years of testing at face value…possibly it included the time to stabilize this ONE pepper.
I have no clue as to the Guinness costs or as to what other expenses were included in their $30,000 estimate. I do know the Fast tracking and Adjunctiator fees can make the costs jump up, but I don’t want to answer this on their behalf. I’m just curious Jim, if the Guinness Book of Worlds records is only a “Few Hundred Bucks costs” and a simple process, why didn’t you apply to them for the Trinidad Moruga Scorpion” pepper?
I totally recognize Guiness is no expert on Hot Peppers, but we both know it is a great credability enhancer. Seems like a Cheap Date for a Few hundred?
I’ll be going to meet with this team within 2 weeks and tour their gardens, greenhouse, operations, etc. I’ll ask more questions on these issues that I’m not certain about. I’ll get some pics and all of that stuff to validate the meeting.
For the sake of disclosure…My interest in this is simple…I will probably be one of a few exclusive seed companies to have access to buy the seeds for the next Champion pepper. That’s an attractive option.
It’s also been a blast to be involved on the ground floor for a rollout of the Hottest Pepper in the world.
I even might be the lucky guy to name this new pepper…they tossed a possible name out to me at lunch and frankly I wasn’t impressed.
So I spoke to one of the partners on the phone yesterday and gave him my name recommendation and he really liked it.
He also mentioned on that call that the Guiness people wanted documentation on the Calibration of the equipment being used to validate the heat level for this pepper.
I guess with the proliferation of “Hottest Pepper in the World” claims, they are being much more detailed and involved now before approving anything.
Anyway Jim, congratulations on having created the Hottest Pepepr in the world, the Moruga. That is an incredible accomplishment and I wish you continues success.
By the way, is the actual spelling Moruga or Morouga?
I do respect you and your passion for the business.
Maybe we can chat sometime. My email address is ...............
Fiery Regards,
Pepper Joe
PepperJoe says:
Get ready to eat your words, Jim.
I toured all of the greenhouses, farms, and visited the University where the Worlds NEXT HOTTEST PEPPER is being grown and Tested this Thursday.
And I can say I’m 100% certain (in my opinion) that this pepper WILL be the next record holder.
And guess what? We have MORE and even HOTTER Peppers in the pipeline.
This is not a short term play.
We expect to roll out many record breakers in the years to come.
The next Hottest (and I’m only guessing…the developer controls the timetable and we’re waiting for the Guinness people to do final validating) should be announced by May ’12.
But whenever it comes out it will knock the Chile Industry on it’s butt.
The testing is so unique, thorough and substantiated…it will be Crystal clear who the new Champ is.
Jim,
You can knock the testing, the University, the Peppers lineage, whatever.
Let’s let public opinion and our thousands of chilhead friends and customers decide.
You can write a Gazillion word refute to this…but why bother?
Most people think you are just protecting your Moruga Pepper (which, AGAIN…congratulations on the great job you did with that)…but let’s let the majority decide.
I’ll send you some FREE SEEDS of our next worlds hottest peppers when I can, then you can grow them and you’ll agree they are
NUCLEAR HOT!!!
This new Worlds Hottest Pepper will only be available at two Seed Sources.
More to follow….
Fiery Regards to all,
Pepper Joe
Don't forget once its on the internet its out there forever.
And to whom this may concerns website this info came from I will credit you if you like but, I did not want any negative attention going that way, I have already emailed you regarding releasing some other information contained there.
Unique testing, not the industry standard...
many record breakers, yep I can break my own records too by my own testing...
You just congratulated someone else on the hottest pepper in the world, admitting the reaper isnt..
You profit from sales of the reaper
You sir at this point sell nothing but snake oil. Have fun with the repercussions this causes you and your business partners.
Just keep in mind the federal trade commission requires proof before advertising. Tested with the industry standard method.
I got a couple packs myself. Can't wait to try them. But one thread of the pro/anti arguments is enough.
All right. So who will be the first to pay a lawyer to sue these guys? I'd just like to see how far it goes. It'll be the greatest botany related trial in the history of the legal profession! I'd love to see a Supreme Court ruling on this.
I wish I was being sarcastic, but I would really like to see the federal government spend tax dollars disproving the "hottest pepper" claim.
You're going down, Pepper Joe!
I wish I was being sarcastic, but I would really like to see the federal government spend tax dollars disproving the "hottest pepper" claim.
You're going down, Pepper Joe!
I understand I was being facetious and showing that most of his actions do not reflect someone that was involved in a fortune 500 company as he is so apt to point out. He cant even follow basic public relations standards, or federal statutes, or he is simply using that in bad faith as an advertising tool. Either way, it is not in good judgement and misleading. In my honest opinion if they are abusing the consumers good faith to generate more advertising, it is even worse. At this point even if they do have the new worlds hottest pepper, which i sincerely doubt, It will look even worse on them.
No one needs to sue, simply file complaints with the Federal Trade Commission under the truth in advertising act. Require them to be held to the same standards as everyone else. In other words be accountable. If I see tax dollars spent on making people accountable it will be better than watching them spent on a great number of other things.
Absolutely. When the Agro police show up at their door, I'm sure they will have zero paperwork to backup their claims, and will get a hefty fine or hopefully prison time.
But if they do have all the documentation, then they will still look bad because some guys on an internet forum were unhappy with their marketing.
Sounds like a win-win for someone.
But if they do have all the documentation, then they will still look bad because some guys on an internet forum were unhappy with their marketing.
Sounds like a win-win for someone.
For one by their own words including Ed Curries, They did not use a industry standard testing method. If you do a very minor, less than 30 minutes worth of research you can find this. So no it will not substantiate their claims. Yes I am unhappy with their marketing, whether its them the sham wow guys, housing lenders, pharmaceutical company's or anyone we have laws to protect people for a damn good reason. Next time you buy 56.00 bucks in gas do you really want to wonder whether or not it was actually 56.00 dollars in gas? Maybe its ok if their pump is off a bit, and you really only got 45.00 dollars. Thats ok though I guess. Its only gas I would hate to see tax dollars spent on protecting the money you earn...
There is a pepper industry standard testing method? Please post a link to this absolute, as I would love to see the testing results from every pepper that claimed to be hottest. And there can never be a new testing method?
You say it will not substantiate their claims. Yet you have never seen the paperwork or examined the testing method. For all you know, the method they used is superior to the "industry standard". You have clearly already decided a crime was committed. By your own admission, no amount of evidence will prove to you otherwise. They have marketed a vegetable for a niche market, and haven't to your satisfaction proven their claim. Fine. Call the FTC, DOA, POTUS, whomever you think gives a damn. Lay out the facts as you KNOW them. See if you don't get laughed out of the office.
It's a F&*$ing vegetable! Is anyone going into bankruptcy because they absolutely have to grow this thing? I can get to work without popping a Morouga into my tank. My health will be completely unaffected by the subjective claims of this pepper. It has gone from "Well, I would like to see the paperwork" to "Call the Feds! The Pepper Mafia is stealing my money!"
I don't go into fits because of the Sham Wow guy. I just don't buy the product. I don't get on the phone and threaten prosecution. I have a life to lead. You want to go nuts right now? When I sell these seedlings next year, I'm going to sell them besides some other superhots, explain the controvery and convince people to buy more than one variety to test them themselves. MUA-HA-HA! I'm a monster.
It is all completely blown out of proportion. Good God, get a grip. There is no evidence of any crime here. There is just the righteous indignation of hobby vegetable growers because another vegetable grower had the gall to not show everyone some test results in a timely fashion. If this is how you go through life, I don't understand why you get out of bed in the morning. The whole world must be a scary place.
You say it will not substantiate their claims. Yet you have never seen the paperwork or examined the testing method. For all you know, the method they used is superior to the "industry standard". You have clearly already decided a crime was committed. By your own admission, no amount of evidence will prove to you otherwise. They have marketed a vegetable for a niche market, and haven't to your satisfaction proven their claim. Fine. Call the FTC, DOA, POTUS, whomever you think gives a damn. Lay out the facts as you KNOW them. See if you don't get laughed out of the office.
It's a F&*$ing vegetable! Is anyone going into bankruptcy because they absolutely have to grow this thing? I can get to work without popping a Morouga into my tank. My health will be completely unaffected by the subjective claims of this pepper. It has gone from "Well, I would like to see the paperwork" to "Call the Feds! The Pepper Mafia is stealing my money!"
I don't go into fits because of the Sham Wow guy. I just don't buy the product. I don't get on the phone and threaten prosecution. I have a life to lead. You want to go nuts right now? When I sell these seedlings next year, I'm going to sell them besides some other superhots, explain the controvery and convince people to buy more than one variety to test them themselves. MUA-HA-HA! I'm a monster.
It is all completely blown out of proportion. Good God, get a grip. There is no evidence of any crime here. There is just the righteous indignation of hobby vegetable growers because another vegetable grower had the gall to not show everyone some test results in a timely fashion. If this is how you go through life, I don't understand why you get out of bed in the morning. The whole world must be a scary place.
I will note first off mods feel free to do what you have to about this, I have read the rules and understand..
I should really probably post this in a PM but, The world is a Scary place because I spent a couple years of my life overseas protecting this country for people that don't give a shit about the simplest of rights, Whats scary is I spent years away from my children for people like you. Whats scary is my wife and kids spent many a night not knowing if i was every coming home for you. How I get out of bed every morning, with a cane, is knowing that i did the best I can to make the world a better place for my kids My wife, My Family and yours, not just pass the buck along, and hope someone else will deal with it and only bitch when it directly affects me.
f**k it its only a pepper on a hobby growers forum right.
Oh and by the way, A valid complaint has been filed, after I posted that more than one in fact. If enough people give a damn then things might change. I hope I played a part in helping your family in someway somehow.
thx1138
Banned
Maybe we should check on the brazillion dollars that someone has claimed it costs to get into the Guiness record. Here is the website:
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/how-to-apply/
The last record holder sent the pepper to GUINNESS to be evaluated and it did not cost a fraction of what the hype-miester claims it costs nor does it take the time, or the MONEY, that the pepperschmo claims if a judge is invited to the challenge via the Fast Track which is $650.00! A price breakdown is found here: http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/our-services/
Something does not add up here, but I am sure pepperschmo will point the finger at Ed and play good cop/bad cop.
Either it is the world's hottest, or it is not. Where is the documentation from Guinness? And how many of you fell for the "professional salesmanship" of the snake oil salesman?
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/how-to-apply/
The last record holder sent the pepper to GUINNESS to be evaluated and it did not cost a fraction of what the hype-miester claims it costs nor does it take the time, or the MONEY, that the pepperschmo claims if a judge is invited to the challenge via the Fast Track which is $650.00! A price breakdown is found here: http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/our-services/
Something does not add up here, but I am sure pepperschmo will point the finger at Ed and play good cop/bad cop.
Either it is the world's hottest, or it is not. Where is the documentation from Guinness? And how many of you fell for the "professional salesmanship" of the snake oil salesman?
Moderators take note, I accept whatever punishment you decide. There will be no whining or complaining about it from me. If I stepped over the line, so be it. I earned it.
I, too, spent 10 years defending my country (and continue to in a different capacity), and it pains me to see so many people so sue happy for every little perceived slight. That's not what I fought for.
I do not work for, nor have I ever accepted a dime from Joe, Ed or any other pepper grower. I'm not defending them specifically. Of course noone will believe that, but whatever. I'm defending a system that is constantly being attacked by people who are afraid someone will make a "profit". I read everything I could on this pepper and I looked at the bigger picture, and I don't see how they benefit from scamming some hobby growers. the payout just isn't there based on the risk. Apparently now they risk the onslaught of the Federal Government. I'm sorry, but it makes no sense. These internet arguements are ridiculous. I know, because I've been participating in one for 3 weeks now. And now someone is suggesting prosecution. Over a vegetable, over a definition that no one agrees on, over debateable testing procedures. That's not extreme? Really? You didn't spend a dime on this thing, but you are willing to sic the dogs on them for what? Because they didn't show their work when you wanted to see it?
Here is my outlandish theory. Ed set a goal. He worked hard for that goal, he set aside time and resources to accomplish that goal. He honestly believes he has achieved it through scientific testing over a number of years. He decided to sell the results of his work. But oh my God! He didn't satisfy someone's definition of Hottest. He clearly laid out his standard, and measures his pepper by this standard. People disagree on it, so suddenly he's one of America's Most Wanted. Now these same people are demanding that he produce this paperwork so that next year they can get his product for free. If I were Ed and I saw what was going on here, I wouldn't answer any demands. I'd close my account and market elsewhere. Because no matter what he does someone is going to make him the bad guy. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. But I'm not accusing anyone of breaking the law.
How many people are looking to prosecute Bonnie Plants for labeling a fatali "the world's hottest habanero" this year? Any takers?
I, too, spent 10 years defending my country (and continue to in a different capacity), and it pains me to see so many people so sue happy for every little perceived slight. That's not what I fought for.
I do not work for, nor have I ever accepted a dime from Joe, Ed or any other pepper grower. I'm not defending them specifically. Of course noone will believe that, but whatever. I'm defending a system that is constantly being attacked by people who are afraid someone will make a "profit". I read everything I could on this pepper and I looked at the bigger picture, and I don't see how they benefit from scamming some hobby growers. the payout just isn't there based on the risk. Apparently now they risk the onslaught of the Federal Government. I'm sorry, but it makes no sense. These internet arguements are ridiculous. I know, because I've been participating in one for 3 weeks now. And now someone is suggesting prosecution. Over a vegetable, over a definition that no one agrees on, over debateable testing procedures. That's not extreme? Really? You didn't spend a dime on this thing, but you are willing to sic the dogs on them for what? Because they didn't show their work when you wanted to see it?
Here is my outlandish theory. Ed set a goal. He worked hard for that goal, he set aside time and resources to accomplish that goal. He honestly believes he has achieved it through scientific testing over a number of years. He decided to sell the results of his work. But oh my God! He didn't satisfy someone's definition of Hottest. He clearly laid out his standard, and measures his pepper by this standard. People disagree on it, so suddenly he's one of America's Most Wanted. Now these same people are demanding that he produce this paperwork so that next year they can get his product for free. If I were Ed and I saw what was going on here, I wouldn't answer any demands. I'd close my account and market elsewhere. Because no matter what he does someone is going to make him the bad guy. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. But I'm not accusing anyone of breaking the law.
How many people are looking to prosecute Bonnie Plants for labeling a fatali "the world's hottest habanero" this year? Any takers?
thx1138
Banned
Pepperhead,
25 years serving this Country. Everyone is free to express their support/doubts. So far, no concrete evidence has been provided, and the whole Guinness story has been BS to date, according to the Guinness site. It does not require hundreds of thousands of dollars to "prove" a record breaker.
Also, the "profssional salesman" is on every single website trying to stir up controversy because he believes that it helps him attain the "riches" he is seeking. His customer support is lacking on many other respected sites, mind you.
Claiming to be a Guinness record holder without a certificate is simply called FRAUD. Demanding that the Butch T step aside because there is a "new sheriff in town" without proper paperwork, is FRAUD. If these folks were not snake oil salesmen, the proof would have been provided already without blaming Guinness. The current pepper title belongs to Australia, who sent the pepper TO GUINNESS to be evaluated. No thousands of dollars expended. Someone is not telling the truth. I suspect the snake oil salesman, pepperschmo.
It may be a hot pepper, but someone prove to me that it is hotter than a Butch T.
25 years serving this Country. Everyone is free to express their support/doubts. So far, no concrete evidence has been provided, and the whole Guinness story has been BS to date, according to the Guinness site. It does not require hundreds of thousands of dollars to "prove" a record breaker.
Also, the "profssional salesman" is on every single website trying to stir up controversy because he believes that it helps him attain the "riches" he is seeking. His customer support is lacking on many other respected sites, mind you.
Claiming to be a Guinness record holder without a certificate is simply called FRAUD. Demanding that the Butch T step aside because there is a "new sheriff in town" without proper paperwork, is FRAUD. If these folks were not snake oil salesmen, the proof would have been provided already without blaming Guinness. The current pepper title belongs to Australia, who sent the pepper TO GUINNESS to be evaluated. No thousands of dollars expended. Someone is not telling the truth. I suspect the snake oil salesman, pepperschmo.
It may be a hot pepper, but someone prove to me that it is hotter than a Butch T.
Well, he's said it is stable which means its over F8 at least.. But is your primo pepper patented or anything? Liek the genes and not just the name?
Plant patenting is a whole world i ahvet gotten into yet lol..
BTW I have yet to try a primo lol still gotta find a couple of those evillooking pods..you did a good job making them
Easy way to put this to bed - didn't Primo post something about a lab that was recommended by NMSU that will perform tests for under 50 bucks? Aren't there pods floating around out there in 'reviewer's' hands?
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Definitive, unbiased, third party analysis
Not that it matters that much, I'm looking forward to growing some next season based on the reviews that have been done thus far
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Definitive, unbiased, third party analysis
Not that it matters that much, I'm looking forward to growing some next season based on the reviews that have been done thus far
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