I'm late to the party but yes. A resounding yes. I find a lot of value in heirloom varieties both from a biological perspective but also a cultural heritage perspective. I wish I had saved the tomato, bean & crowder pea varieties my grandparents grew.queequeg152 said:i mean do you really want to grow some bullshit tomato variety from the 1900's?
the context of that was with respect to commercial farmers.coachspencerxc said:I'm late to the party but yes. A resounding yes. I find a lot of value in heirloom varieties both from a biological perspective but also a cultural heritage perspective. I wish I had saved the tomato, bean & crowder pea varieties my grandparents grew.
to what specifically are you referring. your assertion is baseless without some evidence, a news story at least, "natural news" or otherwise.FROG DOG said:no speeka da eenglis?? i wrote a paragraph in the english language about what i was talking about.
queequeg152 said:its 1500 per acre not total . adjust that math accordingly.
SmokenFire said:
$1500 per acre for seed x 220 acres of land = $330,000 total bill for seed. A third of a million dollars to plant 220 acres. That's $33 a pound. I can get certified organic non GMO seed corn for $11 per pound - and that price is for twenty five pounds. I imagine I'd get a pretty nice discount on 10k pounds
What is really difficult is trying to establish the baseline for the extra costs of using natural pesticides on the organic non GMO seeds. Further we've little data on how many applications per season are needed, as well as what type of yields we can expect per acre. That said I am confident that with current technology and proper land management/crop rotation organic farming can approach a much higher yield per acre than was previously possible in 'olden times' (read: prior to agribusiness methods) Indeed this type of crop will not likely return the same bushels per acre as current agribusiness models, but even if it were 75% of current yields and 110% of the price isn't it worth the costs?
I am absolutely certain that we can use current knowledge and technology to produce better (in all ways) food for our race and NOT be beholden to some global agribusiness conglomerate. <-- That's what this comes down to for me. For every rice w improved vitamin D that's helping kids in impoverished countries there's a corn with pesticide engineered into it on a molecular level that's going to cross with other natural and engineered crops (already has) and then get out into real nature - thereby jeopardizing all corn. The days of us blindly trusting for huge conglomerate companies to make all the decisions about what goes into nature are over.
oldsalty said:
I worked in Monsanto's facility in MA and we were made to wear respirators for safety reasons while working in their facility. The smell in and around the plant was unbearable and entire community surrounding the plant stank horribly!!
I understand the importance of scientific research in farming!!! We just need to smart enough to know we're to draw the line before we go to far!!
Great discussion guy's!!!! I've enjoyed all comments on both sides!!!
Cheers
SmokenFire said:ok - so @ $4.25 per lb we have $25,245 in seed. Factoring in $10 an acre herbicide (from what source are you figuring that cost?) we're at $27,625 per acre. I'm not including the $29 plowing per acre, because planting any deeper should not cost any extra - it's a simple 'set the machinery and it goes' type of thing.
Going back to my earlier post of $11 per lb at 25 pounds: would it be acceptable to assume at least a 50% discount at 10K lbs? If so that would be $5.50 per pound - about 25-30% more than GMO seed. So that would mean it would cost roughly $32,670 before any pesticide is accounted for - a little over 5K more than GMO seed.
Indiana_Jesse said:My only gripe in regards to GMO's is not the GMO's themselves, but how they are often promoted as the potential savior of humanity. Especially in regards to a changing climate, as if no traditional crops grown elsewhere in the world have drought and heat tolerance, or the ability to withstand pest/disease pressure and offer nutrition. But I understand that (thankfully) it is difficult to patent and promote existing traditional crops, which means there isn't much money to be made by investing in these crops if you are a big ag company. "Creating" your own version of a "familiar" crop which you are allowed to patent is much more lucrative! So how can you blame them
Dulac said:
Plants do it on your own. You're certainly right on that point. Wild capsicums themselves have adapted to different climates without human intervention.
I'm not against GMOS, but we need to do more trials on them. They also should be labeled GMO like they do in Europe. We are putting ourselves at risk by eating this stuff without enough testing. Monsanto also didn't test agent orange properly. My uncle got sick from it (finally recognized by the US government) and his son seems to be affected (he is extremely mentally ill). We should also analyze all our crops thoroughly. It was not too long ago that they noticed the protein changed in wheat, which was from traditional breeding.
Small scale farmers most times do operate at a lost it's only the Big farmers that really can make money, my wife and I just looked into filing taxes on our farm and was told the Government expects us to operate with out making money but that we couldn't take off all our expenses, so it wasn't even worth Filing taxes as our return would have only been about $200.queequeg152 said:
thats insanity. why would any farmer operate at a loss? they've been growing round up ready corn and soy... and making a tidy profit for like... 2 decades... some of the patents are already expired and more will this or next year.
and while i doubt your numbers, yea organic agriculture has seen a general steady uptick since the late 1990's... this is due to the fear mongering and lies spread. the organic marketplace is now f**king humongeous. so large that entire grocery store chains cater exclusively to it.... yet folks still whine about forced labeling of non issue gmo ingredients.
if you dont want to eat gmo, buy organic. its simple as that.
and GMO corn is just like any other hybrid corn... the protien expressed for the resistance and the BT protiene etc, have NOTHING to do with the plants productivity itself.
its all about reducing the costs of conducting business. with this trait you can prevent loss of your crops due to pest as well as allow you to spray post and pre emergence with roundup to prevent weed competition and or prevent the need to plow like 12" deep to turn over the soil...
check this out... page three top right.
https://extension.usu.edu/newsletters/files/uploads/2013_Budgets/2013_Corn_Grain.pdf
see the cost of fertilizer and pesticides?
now see the cost of seed?
which is bigger?
now look at page 2. top of the cost breakdowns.
HE MADE ONE APPLICATION OF HERBICIDES ( pre emergence prob.) .... at the rate of 1 quart per acre.... he also sprayed some 2,4d at half a quart per acre....
oh my. what a poor steward for the environment. we should beat the soles of his feet with rubber hoses.
now look at his TOTAL cost of seed.... 1500 bucks for 220 acres worth of seed... thats 195 bushels of seed. at 50 something lbs per bushel thats around 10,000 lbs of corn seed for 1500 bucks... or 15 cents per pound.
please tell me more about how expensive roundup corn is.
wholesale commodity pricing sees corn feed priced at less than a penny per lb from what i can see... so as long at your 15 cent lb of gmo corn produces 1500 lbs of corn you are in break even territory...
patents are 20 years btw. i said 7 years earlier, twas a mistake.
Mr. Hill said:Monsanto made agent orange and said it was safe now they make Round-up ready corn Etc, and say it's safe but now Round-up in in Farmers water and even being found in mothers milk, so how safe will that be in 40 more years??
SmokenFire said:
Bingo. Why trust what any huge multinational corporate conglomerate has to say about anything? They lie to protect shareholders and stock price values. Do you think for an instant that Monsanto actually gives a shit about your kids or their kids?
Mr. Hill said:Monsanto made agent orange and said it was safe now they make Round-up ready corn Etc, and say it's safe but now Round-up in in Farmers water and even being found in mothers milk, so how safe will that be in 40 more years??