Opinions on individuals selling seeds

[coheed196]

I am curious as to what the opinions of you guys here are on an individual selling seeds. I know there are a few members here that are very outspoken and totally against an individual selling seeds. (By individual I mean somebody who is just a hobby grower and not a legal business)

I personally have sold seeds on this forum, I have also given away literally thousands of seeds as well. I am not looking to make a ton of money off of the seeds I sell but just maybe make enough to cover the cost of materials needed to keep and grow the peppers we all love.

I do not mind any individual selling seeds at all as long as the price is reasonably competitive and is not causing the legal businesses to lower their prices to an extent where they can't turn a profit and as long as the seller does not make false claims such as the seeds were isolated when they were not. The reasons I don't mind seeing individuals selling seeds are: If a legal business does not have seeds available for a variety I am wanting to grow. I can't find anybody willing to trade or do a SASBE for a variety I'm looking to grow. I don't want to wait around for a giveaway or contest of sorts that I may or may not win, or I don't want to wait until the summer when all the fresh pod auctions and sales start to flow and buy the pods and then dry the seeds myself because then it would be way too late to start the seeds this season (at least for my growing climate anyways)

For the members that are totally against individuals selling seeds, I am just curious as to why you feel that way. If you do not want somebody selling seeds, what's the difference in selling fresh pods? Both seeds and pods cost money and time to produce. If you want somebody to just give away seeds or pods, then why not just give away the whole plant? A bubble envelope with around 10 baggies of seeds sent 1st class mail cost me $2.07 to mail in the US. A 7 X 7 X 4 box with (1) 3.5" square pot and plant / seedling in it sent priority in the US cost me $7.68, so a difference of just at $5. I personally just do not see the difference in selling seeds and selling pods or starter plants. All of them take considerable time and money to produce, so why does it matter if I try to recoup some of that cost? I just see posts all the time on seed auctions and sells started by a non vendor saying "seeds should be given away" and I have absolutely never seen anybody saying that on a fresh pod or starter plant sell / auction.

I did not post this trying to get a rise out of anybody or to start a war / bashing session of any kind. I really hope this stays civil. I am just honestly curious as to what others here think about it. Anyways, thank you for reading.

Vincent Kelley

 

[Tim in Tucson]

"[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)] Hopefully no jerks nearby plant gmo stuff and pollute our nice old school plants." [/background]

[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]We can only hope. This GMO garbage is getting way out of hand! I'm at the point where I don't even want to think about purchasing any vegetable seeds at any big box garden center. I get almost all of my non-chili vegetable seeds from Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds.[/background]

 

[coheed196]

I don't personally feel like you are undercutting vendor business really, the vendors that keep good reputations will continue to find business from both inside this forum and from the outside world. If vendors find that they need to adjust their prices due to market pressures, we then that is just the name of the game in business. That is the beauty of the free market system.

As far as this topic about getting peppers for free and selling the seed, well don't even worry about it. The only person that should have anything to say on that topic is SS, and I would think if he had a problem he would have said something by now.

Carry on...

Thank you for the info man. I am / was not trying to undercut any vendors is the thing. I charge $4-$5 per 10 seeds, I am aware that it may be just a tad bit cheaper than some of the bigger vendors (pepperlover, peppermania, refining fire chiles, etc) but I believe they isolate their seeds where all of the ones I offer are not. I also breed reptiles as a hobby and sell them here at a local reptile expo every month. About 8 or 9 years ago, Albino Ball Pythons were fairly new and very expensive ($1000 +) people could not find very many buyers so of course started to lower prices. Now an albino ball python can be had for maybe $250, $300 if you're lucky. It killed me to see that happen in that hobby just because somewhere some breeder lowered his price of those animals so drastically just to sell more snakes than the other guy.

Uh oh....are you saying I can't do the oodles of SASE offers I put out annually on here anymore since this is a thing of the past?

Chris

Chris I am so happy that you dropped in. Reason being is the Chocolate Morougas I have offered for sale are from a SFRB of pods I bought from you last year. Are you mad or angry that I bought pods off of you and de-seeded them and now have offered those seeds for sale?

 

[Dulac]

I don't think it's a problem. People are willing to spend a little bit on seeds they want. I'm certainly willing to pay 4 bucks (per pack) for capsicum flexuosum and galapagoense seeds. If you got them send me a pm, lol. I like the individual venders like pepperlover too. @Patrick, I won't be making money off SB7J. My plan for them is to spread around with sabse or trades when I get a stable strain (will have to name it if I get that huge brim I'm trying to select for). I've been trading a few of the unstable ones letting people know what they are getting. I like the whole sharing mentality in this community. I also don't see a problem with people making a small profit for their time. That person might be trying to start up a seed business, which isn't bad for our community.

 

[Indiana_Jesse]

I don't want to start a fight, really! BUT I do have a strong OPINION that an individual should only charge for seeds in which an effort was made to isolate the seeds for purity. On the other hand people have the freedom to choose whether or not they want to spend their money on something that MIGHT be what they wanted to buy, as long as the seller is honest and discloses that isolation techniques were not used. Otherwise I have no problems with individuals selling seeds, its just like any other hobby with selling, trading, freebies, etc. with other hobbyists.

 

[coheed196]

I don't want to start a fight, really! BUT I do have a strong OPINION that an individual should only charge for seeds in which an effort was made to isolate the seeds for purity. On the other hand people have the freedom to choose whether or not they want to spend their money on something that MIGHT be what they wanted to buy, as long as the seller is honest and discloses that isolation techniques were not used. Otherwise I have no problems with individuals selling seeds, its just like any other hobby with selling, trading, freebies, etc. with other hobbyists.

So you're saying that somebody should not charge money for open pollinated seeds even if the seller is honest and open about the seeds not being isolated in any way?

 

[Dulac]

So you're saying that somebody should not charge money for open pollinated seeds even if the seller is honest and open about the seeds not being isolated in any way?

Time should really be taken to isolate them with a mosquito net or another method. Open pollinated doesn't mean not isolated. Seeds can be op and isolated.

 

[Captain Capsaicin]

I don't want to start a fight, really! BUT I do have a strong OPINION that an individual should only charge for seeds in which an effort was made to isolate the seeds for purity.

Would you mind elaborating a bit? I'd be curious to get a better understanding of your position as the logic isn't intuitive to me.

 

[Naga Chomper]

I don't want to start a fight, really! BUT I do have a strong OPINION that an individual should only charge for seeds in which an effort was made to isolate the seeds for purity. On the other hand people have the freedom to choose whether or not they want to spend their money on something that MIGHT be what they wanted to buy, as long as the seller is honest and discloses that isolation techniques were not used. Otherwise I have no problems with individuals selling seeds, its just like any other hobby with selling, trading, freebies, etc. with other hobbyists.

There's not a plant growing in the world right now that hasn't been subjected to open pollination somewhere in it's genetic past.

 

[patrick]

I'm still having trouble with this. How can anyone complain about how a vendor arrived at his stock as long as it was honest? No seed vendor can possibly grow enough different varieties to stock their shelves. That means they conduct some business to get them. I imagine most are bought from wholesalers or regular growers they have deals set up with. I happen to be growing some plants for a vendor this year. Not getting paid for it, I got some free seeds for it. Works for me and the vendor. Seems to me coheed did nothing but cut out the middle man and went out and harvested pods himself. He processed them to get seeds. I'm sure he could have paid someone to do it but was willing to do the work himself. That's called being willing to work for something. That's smart business too. Cuts the cost of his stock down which I believe he's passed on to his customers.

Would you whining vendors have a problem if coheed had paid for the seeds? Probably not. He invested his time and effort, that's the same as cash to me.

I love getting on my pedestal when I believe in what I'm ranting about.

 

[DesertChris]

I'm still having trouble with this. How can anyone complain about how a vendor arrived at his stock as long as it was honest? No seed vendor can possibly grow enough different varieties to stock their shelves. That means they conduct some business to get them. I imagine most are bought from wholesalers or regular growers they have deals set up with. I happen to be growing some plants for a vendor this year. Not getting paid for it, I got some free seeds for it. Works for me and the vendor. Seems to me coheed did nothing but cut out the middle man and went out and harvested pods himself. He processed them to get seeds. I'm sure he could have paid someone to do it but was willing to do the work himself. That's called being willing to work for something. That's smart business too. Cuts the cost of his stock down which I believe he's passed on to his customers.

Would you whining vendors have a problem if coheed had paid for the seeds? Probably not. He invested his time and effort, that's the same as cash to me.

I love getting on my pedestal when I believe in what I'm ranting about.

I completely agree

 

[armac]

We all have views, and they appear to be different.

And to clarify, the gist of it has nothing to do with undercutting vendors, they are here on business. I understand that. But when a non vendor community member pursues profit from the rest of the community from items he received free, I detest that. I will continue to SHARE my seeds, without payment.

How many in this thread has received seeds from me? Did we trade? Was money exchanged?

I love dealing with community members, we have something to SHARE with each other. Receiving payment is not sharing.

 

[ms1476]

It seems there may have been an issue between two people that probably should have been resolved between two people via PMs rather than posts. Conflicts get resolved much more efficiently when we go directly to the source. That being said, I have found that when I get seeds free from friends, they grow the same (or often better) than when I purchase from vendors. I would never sell a seed that I wasn't going to plant; my friends are welcome to them. If my friends cannot use them, hopefully they will pass them on to someone that can use them. I think spreading the love of peppers is more important than making a dollar, but I can't hate someone that thinks differently than me. Hope everyone settles their issues appropriately and Happy Growing.

-Mark

 

[patrick]

You've sent me seeds Rodney. I've sent others seeds. I'm grateful you share your stuff and I'm sure everyone else is too.

I don't see how working for the seeds is the same as getting them free. He paid for the gas to get there and back. He spent seven hour working outside in the heat and humidity of a summer in Alabama. People get paid to harvest peppers right? Don't people get paid to work in fields? Coheed didn't get paid in cash, he got paid in peppers. Paid for his work. How many people would spend seven hours picking pods for nothing?

If he paid some kid $20 to pick the peppers would that make it OK? What's the difference if he does the work himself?

 

[armac]

Oh well.....

 

[Captain Capsaicin]

I agree with Patrick but I'll take it a step further. If two parties both willingly engage in a transaction where both benefit then how is that bad? By virtue of the fact that one party has decided to buy then that individual places a higher value on the seeds than he did the couple bucks which the seeds cost. The party selling derives more value from the few bucks than the seeds. Both parties win. To me it doesn't make any difference how the selling party acquired the seeds (in so long as they aren't stolen).

To me this comes back to the very core of capitalism. Capitalism doesn't negate charity. Citizens residing in capitalistic societies are often quite charitable. I've received free seeds, I've given seeds away, I've purchased seeds and I've sold seeds. I just don't see how any of that is wrong.

 

[Dulac]

You've sent me seeds Rodney. I've sent others seeds. I'm grateful you share your stuff and I'm sure everyone else is too.

I don't see how working for the seeds is the same as getting them free. He paid for the gas to get there and back. He spent seven hour working outside in the heat and humidity of a summer in Alabama. People get paid to harvest peppers right? Don't people get paid to work in fields? Coheed didn't get paid in cash, he got paid in peppers. Paid for his work. How many people would spend seven hours picking pods for nothing?

If he paid some kid $20 to pick the peppers would that make it OK? What's the difference if he does the work himself?

I agree with this. The only thing I disagree with is selling non-isolated seeds. I'm not going to be loud about this sort of thing, but that is my opinion on individual's selling seeds.

 

[armac]

Anybody who is raising rennies this year.......you did not pay a penny, for the cost of me getting them or the cost of shipping.

And they all started here.......community.

 

[Dulac]

Anybody who is raising rennies this year.......you did not pay a penny, for the cost of me getting them or the cost of shipping.

And they all started here.......community.

That's how I feel about the SB7J. I think that's why Patrick would feel upset if he saw it being sold. I can't blame him.

 

[DocNrock]

Just my two cents: If Vincent had an agreement with SS that he could sell seeds and pods out of his harvest from SS's farm, then I don't see the problem, as long as he tells the buyer the seeds are open pollenated. Like has been said, Vincent drove down, labored to pick, then labored to process. Growing peppers costs at least some money: soil, pots, lights, etc. If Vincent doesn't have the disposable income to buy said items, then perhaps he is finding an honest way to fund his hobby. Not everyone has disposable income. I don't know if this applies, or not. Either way, I don't have a problem with it. His scale is too small and choices are limited, so it's not like he's a threat to the vendors with expansive selections and the assuredness of isolated seeds.

If anyone has a problem with someone selling open pollenated seeds, Ajijoe does just that on a much larger scale than Vincent. I've bought some seeds from Ajijoe, and I bought Silver_Surfer pods from Vincent. I'm happy with both. I've also given away seeds and been given seeds. Whatever works is fine with me.

 

[Dulac]

If anyone has a problem with someone selling open pollenated seeds, Ajijoe does just that on a much larger scale than Vincent. I've bought some seeds from Ajijoe, and I bought Silver_Surfer pods from Vincent. I'm happy with both. I've also given away seeds and been given seeds. Whatever works is fine with me.

Open-pollinated doesn't mean not isolated. Open-pollinated plants can be isolated. For example you plant 4 bhut jolokias and cover the 4 together with mosquito netting to isolate them from other varieties that could cross-pollinate with them. Or you could grow a bunch of bhut jolokias in one area and grow another variety a couple miles away, which is not too practical.