Is there an internet forum dedicated to organic gardening, with maybe a focus on "no till" methods that you would consider to be the standard? I don't really have time to peruse every organic gardening forum. I want to learn as much as I can about "no till", and apply those principles to my pepper grow. Where do I find the experts? Thanks.
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organic Organic Gardening...No Till...Forum?
- Thread starter Roguejim
- Start date
Square foot gardening is no till and organic for most
From what I've noticed no till works better in the Northern Climates, here in FL the invasive grasses, vines and trees never give you a break. I have tried it without success, the deep growing grass such as Torpedo Grass, Banyon and Ficus trees, Wild Grape all invade the growing area and they never stop growing. Sometimes their roots penetrate the black weed mates growing up into my pots, its like they know(following the Nute trail) there's some good soil up yonder Imma gonna go get it!
http://www.amazon.com/Vegetable-Gardeners-Bible-2nd-ebook/dp/B003PGQK1O/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1370802297&sr=1-1&keywords=the+vegetable+gardener%27s+bible.
every thing you ever wanted to know about organic gardening, and no till. Great book, picked it up afew months back, and have learned ALOT
every thing you ever wanted to know about organic gardening, and no till. Great book, picked it up afew months back, and have learned ALOT
Permaculture is something you might want to look in to. It takes no-till gardening to another level. Lot's of resources online about it.
Fish fertilizers, seaweed extract, and compost tea. Both foliar and in the ground. My plants had a huge turn around when I started using foliar fertilization.Roguejim said:
This post is what finally made me decide to join this forum. Are you planning to grow on acreage? I can give you some info on no-till practices. No till made it's appearance as a way to conserve fuel and raise profit margins for farmers. Compact soil is not good, and I can not say enough good things about a plow. Because no-till leaves soil compacted, roots don't grow deep and water runs off the surface and not down where you need it. "Vertical tillage" is now becoming popular to address this issue. If you ask equipment manufacturers and such you may get a different story. I have to say, unless you are planning to grow a field of peppers, I am surprised to hear no-till mentioned. Work your soil before you plant. You won't be sorry. And while I find nothing wrong with organic practices, I am one of those people who will tell you not to hate chemical fertilizers. I find them easier to control, and lets not forget that plants eat chemicals! Chemical pesticides are what I feel should be avoided as much as possible. The difference is that pesticides are not what the plant (or you) want for dinner!
millworkman
eXtreme
Busy said:
All I can say about compaction and water run off is mulch mulch mulch. If you mulch your garden bed then run off is a non issue. Also, a good mulch that is natural and can break down such as leaves, grass clippings of hardwood chips will feed the soil and let the little guys do their work. Worms and microbes leave a soil far less compact than a 3 ton tractor driving on it. There are parts of my property which have never been touched with a shovel or plow or till or tractor and you can dig a hole with your hands that you can stand in.
Both ways work for both types of people. I happen to do both ways and enjoy playing in the soil but am slowly moving towards no till as it is easier and far more productive than working the dirt and pouring chemicals on it. Notice I used soil and dirt differently. Soil is full of life and can support it. Dirt is dirt and once you get rid of that life by tilling and pouring on chemicals soil is reduced from this massive life supporting system to just a media to grow in. Then you, the farmer. have to be there constantly since you basically put the plant on life support.
If you feed the soil then you do not have to feed your plant and the first is far easier than the second.
Tilled earth compacts faster than untilled.
I have a 100 square foot raised bed.
Last Fall, before I heard about no till, I tilled in some Happy Frog Soil Conditioner. I then covered the ground with a 3-4" layer of fallen leaves followed by a 4-5" layer of mulch made from "green waste matter" (chipped shrubs). The leaves were a mistake as they created a sort of mat beneath the mulch. I thought they would have broken down completely, but were still there 7 months later in Spring. The leaves were flattened down and brown by this time, but they created a mat.
My first grow has not been very good due to some untimely inclement weather after plant out, and also I think, due to poor soil prep in Fall. My thought now for next season is to re-till the ground in either Fall or early Spring. I think I will till in a large portion of compost, and some rabbit manure...lime too, if necessary. I will cover the ground again with the green waste matter, and add more manure a month or so to the surface before plant out. I'm hoping for more advice on the soil prep. I know some of us new growers are waiting on Pepper-Guru to write his tutorial on building living soil, which will be a great help. I think. In the meantime, I've joined the GardenWeb forum where there's all kinds of help and written tutorials available.
Last Fall, before I heard about no till, I tilled in some Happy Frog Soil Conditioner. I then covered the ground with a 3-4" layer of fallen leaves followed by a 4-5" layer of mulch made from "green waste matter" (chipped shrubs). The leaves were a mistake as they created a sort of mat beneath the mulch. I thought they would have broken down completely, but were still there 7 months later in Spring. The leaves were flattened down and brown by this time, but they created a mat.
My first grow has not been very good due to some untimely inclement weather after plant out, and also I think, due to poor soil prep in Fall. My thought now for next season is to re-till the ground in either Fall or early Spring. I think I will till in a large portion of compost, and some rabbit manure...lime too, if necessary. I will cover the ground again with the green waste matter, and add more manure a month or so to the surface before plant out. I'm hoping for more advice on the soil prep. I know some of us new growers are waiting on Pepper-Guru to write his tutorial on building living soil, which will be a great help. I think. In the meantime, I've joined the GardenWeb forum where there's all kinds of help and written tutorials available.
Leaves take a long time to break down. If you want to make "leaf mold" pile them up and moisten periodically for at least one year. Shredding first can accelerate the process. If you want something usable sooner, mix with liberal quantities of green matter and compost for a few months.
Green matter should not be applied directly to soil unless it will be laying fallow while the decomposition process completes.
Wood chips are great for mulch. They break down slowly into a nice soil amendment.
Green matter should not be applied directly to soil unless it will be laying fallow while the decomposition process completes.
Wood chips are great for mulch. They break down slowly into a nice soil amendment.
PepperWhisperer said:
Why must the ground be laying fallow if the green waste matter just lies on top of the soil? This is the product I used. It says it is not aged or composted, but it sure looks awfully brown for not being aged.
http://biomassone.com/landscaping_materials/green_waste.php
Roguejim said:
Because decomposing matter actually uses up more nitrogen then it releases for the first while as the bacteria feed off it. So if you use green waste/unfinished compost it will actually starve the plants of much needed N.
millworkman
eXtreme
Only if you till it in. If you place it on top and use it as a mulch you will be fine. The nitrogen robbing myth has been proven wrong numerous times.Monkey Hunter said:
millworkman
eXtreme
Same with anything you place on top of the soil. The rootzone will be unaffected.
To each his own, but where I come from the no till fad is winding down. Those guys spend more time with the insurance agent than they do at the elevator. I don't doubt the power of worms and mulch. But when you run a chisel plow and loosen the soil you guarantee that when you get a good rain you won't end up with gravitational water that drowns your roots out. Or runoff. The water drains to field capacity and takes down air with it. You also have more holding power until the permanent wilting point. I'm new to peppers, but if they don't like "wet feet" this would be crucial. I understand the desire for quality food. And I am not a fan of pesticides/GMO. But I feel like these days a lot of people are flocking to the opposite extreme to make it happen. For instance, the bad ring to chemicals. What's the difference between decaying organic matter that produces a nitrogen molecule, and that same molecule of nitrogen after the fact? Bottom line is both methods work. But I can promise you that if diesel was still a dollar a gallon, "no till" would never have happened.
Does a beer can crush more than an already crushed beer can ?Proud Marine Dad said: