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Plant Hormones, Rocks, and Hard Places

POTAWIE said:
For the last 2 years, all my plants have had mycorrhizae and I've only seen benefits.
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You may have something different from what I have, though, which says it is for root growth. It might not be the mycorrhizae, either. That's the only thing I've done differently, and there is a potential for dwarfing in auxin-deficient plants.
 
CrabKalash said:
I figure it's as good a post as any to come out of lurking. First off hey!
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Welcome! And good information for that first jump into the fire!


The thing about the beneficial fungus is not so much that they inhibit auxin production, but that some of them produce cytokinin in large quantities so you their effect somewhat overpowers that of the natural auxins.
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Ah, yes, see, I did mention that I didn't find much information on the interaction of the different plant growth regulators. That would make more sense than auxin inhibition, too.


And yes auxins we're the herbicide in Agent Orange, particularly 2,4-D but not the cause of the problem. 2,4-D is still available the buy I think. One of the by-product of the process if heated higher than usual turned to dioxine,which is very bad.
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I should have elaborated more on the use of auxin in herbicides, but the dang post was already getting so long. Thank you for clarifying that.
 
AlabamaJack said:
I take it as concern about what the stuff I am putting on my peppers will do to me and those who eat them....I am surprised you can't find much information on Auxin since superthrive has been sold since the 40s...I didn't know Auxin was an active ingredient in Agent Orange but do know Agent Orange was nasty...have you ever known anyone that came in contact with it in "Nam"...
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Oh, I can find information on auxin just fine, what I can't find is any work on nutritional changes in plants treated with auxin, or health issues that may be connected to plants treated with auxin. That may be because no ones done the research, or it may be because the research was done so long ago it's not searchable on the web, and it may be because my google foo is too weak.

I tried very hard to avoid conclusions because there really isn't any solid research that I could lay my hands on that says "auxin is bad for you and/or your plants" or "auxin is just peachy for plants and people". Oh, there was one site that said auxin was perfectly safe, but I had difficulty in putting much faith in a site with that many spelling and grammar errors.

What I was trying to do was leave the door open. We know that *some* phyto-compounds affect human health, some positively, some negatively. Nothing I found on auxin gives evidence of an affect either way. The sheep ovary thing was on tissue culture, and in vitro experiments don't always translate into in vivo in the same manner.



Anyway, another reason my plants are tall is the parental naga was about 4 feet tall at maturity (best to my recollection)...so it could be that with me adding the "grow stuff" to them they are going to be really tall...but then again, look at BBs Nagas...they are 7 feet tall....dangit BB...
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Four feet for a chinense isn't all that tall. I refer to them as the rowdy boys of the garden. Oh sure, there are shorter ones, but getting to 4 feet is pretty normal for most of mine.

I think the fact that yours go straight up with almost no branching is what makes them look like they've had auxin. Remember apical dominance? A refresher, for those like me, who need one: http://plantphys.info/apical/apical.html

By increasing the amount of auxin in the plant, you've suppressed lateral bud production. Hence, plants that go straight up with little or no branching. Not an unhealthy plant, just one that doesn't branch as much as others.


Here is my new additive I am starting to use also....

Liquid Karma
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From:http://www.plantlightinghydroponics...a-metabolic-growth-stimulant-quart-p-307.html

"Plant Extracts containing high levels of auxins and cytokinins for successful plant micropropagation (tissue culture)"

So, maybe the cytokinins will balance the auxin.


Botanicare, btw, has only two products OMRI listed. This isn't the do all and be all of organic gardening, but it seems if they went to the trouble of getting two of their products listed, it must have some clout. I'm bringing this up because of our debate on what's natural and what's not.

The two listed products are Humex and Seaplex.
 
You know all in all, this sounds like something a land grant university could do research on....maybe I will contact my Alma Mater....
 
wow, internet goes down for one weekend and look what you miss...
aren't rooting gels just a bunch of auxin? how do we all feel about that?

AJ - normally as the main stem gets taller the auxins stop affecting the side shoots further away so those will start to grow and the plant gets bushy. the extra auxins you give your plants are stopping this from happening so thats why they aren't getting bushy. bushier plants means more peppers!
 
I believe Aj's plants will bush out with natural sunlight. The fluorescent lights just won't reach through the canopy.
 
POTAWIE said:
I believe Aj's plants will bush out with natural sunlight. The fluorescent lights just won't reach through the canopy.
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I don't think it has anything to do with light. The lower leaves on his plants are just as healthy as the upper leaves.
 
I'm not necessarily saying that the lighting is why they grew so tall but now that they are tall the sun will be a big improvement over fluorescent lighting and will penetrate further and likely create bushier plants
 
Pam said:
Not only do I think they're auxin deficient, they got slapped around by Darth Aphid until Ladybug Skywalker showed them the futility of the Munchie Side.
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Well for what it's worth, I did hydro with nothing but mineral fert. And my plants grew like crazy.
My plants never lacked auxins using only mineral fert.

Me thinks you are suffering from "patientia ex AJ invidia" ;)
 
POTAWIE said:
I believe Aj's plants will bush out with natural sunlight. The fluorescent lights just won't reach through the canopy.
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i'm using waaay fewer fluoros then AJ and my plants are bushy... except the inca berries, they're just weird...
 
Okay, let me say this...don't know what it is but the plants took off today...more than an inch of new growth since I posted the picture of me and my plants in the garage and there are a bunch of new little flowerbuds mostly 3 to a node...so two weeks ago I added the 15+K lumens of 2700 light and last Thursday I added the Liquid Karma and stopped using peroxide....growth everywhere along stems from bottom of plant and the plant top is spreading...folks I do believe they are coming of age...
 
imaguitargod said:
While the FDA thing might have changed recently, the research I've done is pritty solid.
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Ok, how about helping me out here. I've done enough research in the last few days. How's about citing your sources, because I can't find anything reputable that supports your assertions.


There's alot of missinformation out there on all sorts of things but the proof is solidly in place about both soy and canola (which causes organs to become inlarged, even animals stay away from rape seed from what I understand).
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On come on, that nonsense about canola oil is so old that it's achieved urban myth status. It's refuted on Snopes, for Pete's sake. I think I first saw it in '95, maybe 96? There was even a report of a study done by University of Illinois on 9000 adults published last fall.

"According to the researchers: "Increasing substitution of canola oil for selected vegetable oils and of canola oil-based margarine for other margarines and butter in the diet of U.S. adults would increase the percentage of Americans in compliance with all current fatty acid-based dietary recommendations," except the Institute of Medicine's recommended Adequate Intake of linoleic acid, which is necessary for cell structure and making hormones."

Now, don't you think if they were following 9000 adults using significant amounts of canola oil, they would have noticed if those adults suddenly all had enlarged organs?


The proof's in the pudding....mmm...pudding...just look at the soy eating vegans, thay are suffering from nutrian deficency. There's no doubt.
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If they're suffering from nutritional deficiencies, and you'll understand if I question your diagnosis, Dr. Guitargod, it's because their diet isn't balanced, not because soy is a slow poison. If I were to suddenly restrict my diet to nothing but steak, I'd be suffering from nutritional deficiencies pretty quickly, too.

Look, I know you love conspiracies and all, but I just don't think the science backs you up on this one.
 
habman said:
Well for what it's worth, I did hydro with nothing but mineral fert. And my plants grew like crazy.
My plants never lacked auxins using only mineral fert.

Me thinks you are suffering from "patientia ex AJ invidia" ;)
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You know, I walked away from this yesterday because it was so dismissively insulting. I got up this morning, a bright, shiny new day, and it's still dismissive and insulting. I'm hoping there was just a misunderstanding about what I said, and why I was saying it.
 
since it was not english and I did not understand it I just ignored it...(Ostrich syndrome)
 
Pam said:
You know, I walked away from this yesterday because it was so dismissively insulting. I got up this morning, a bright, shiny new day, and it's still dismissive and insulting. I'm hoping there was just a misunderstanding about what I said, and why I was saying it.
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Wow I almost fell off my chair reading this.
My sincere apologies Pam.
I meant no harm; I was only trying to lighten up the thread with some humor.
Sorry.
 
Ok, I have to ask and I'm serious, is it the Soy milk or THC intake that gave me my huge man boobs? I'll give up neither, well maybe the Soy, but I thought with all the advertising that Soy milk was much healthier then the real cow juice?
 
Pepp3rFreak said:
Ok, I have to ask and I'm serious, is it the Soy milk or THC intake that gave me my huge man boobs? I'll give up neither, well maybe the Soy, but I thought with all the advertising that Soy milk was much healthier then the real cow juice?
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I gave up on milk a long time ago (although, I do enjoy cheese from time to time, especially on pizza).

I got my man boobs from not exercising, hehehe. (j/k I'm too skinny for man boobs)
 
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