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Plant Hormones, Rocks, and Hard Places

will change to bigger size...sorry all...
 
i can read it... most chiles (at least the chinenses) take longer then 70 days tho...oh well, probably just a guideline...
 
right on the guideline GB but look at it this way...spread the 70 to 140 days, the nagas are 90 days old and very very ready for bloom and I didn't start the bloom fert until about 10 days ago and the liquid karma last week....
 
This thread started out way too serious and ended up making me check my computer for viruses, bots and double check the site's address...:lol: boobage, junkage, buttage...hehehe Plus, I don't need to pull my pants down, I know its all there...LOL :P OH...and I love Pie...

Again thanks for all of the wonderful research Pam. I am however confused, are you saying that from your research, that these plant hormones are unsafe because they somehow taint the fruits/pods and then are consumed? Somewhere I got lost...I read and re-read this post several times. How does normal fertilizers compare to these hazards?
 
Pepperfreak said:
This thread started out way too serious and ended up making me check my computer for viruses, bots and double check the site's address...:lol: boobage, junkage, buttage...hehehe Plus, I don't need to pull my pants down, I know its all there...LOL :P OH...and I love Pie...

Again thanks for all of the wonderful research Pam. I am however confused, are you saying that from your research, that these plant hormones are unsafe because they somehow taint the fruits/pods and then are consumed? Somewhere I got lost...I read and re-read this post several times. How does normal fertilizers compare to these hazards?
Click to expand...

No, I'm saying we don't know, or at least I couldn't find anything that indicated auxin or cytokinin treated plants in anyway affected human health. Since I couldn't find where any research had been done on the subject, I suggested we keep an open mind on the subject.

I used another natural plant chemical, phytoestrogen as an example of a naturally produced plant substance that can and does affect human health. However, let me repeat, I could find absolutely no reports of problems caused in humans from the fruits or vegetables of plants treated with plant growth regulators like auxin or cytokinin.

Then we got down into discussing what the effects of auxin and the other plant growth regulators added into the fertilizers given to seedlings on the plants themselves before we veered into boobage.

Does that help?
 
AlabamaJack said:
Pam, You are simply brilliant...you knew what was going on all along or at least I think you did after your research...
Click to expand...

*blush* Thank you AJ.



Point being, if the grow formula contains higher levels of auxin than the cytokinins, the plants will stay in the vegetative state longer than if there were enough cytokinins to offset the auxin...(thats what Pam said originally)...now with me transitioning from the grow formula to the bloom formula (and giving them the liquid karma too), the cytokinins have finally arrived in force enough to overpower the evil auxins and gain power over the throne...and plant started flowering.....
Click to expand...


So, what you're saying is that if I'd kept my big mouth shut, I might have had a shot of catching up with you in the Naga contest.


Story of my life...



Thanks again Ms Pam...
Click to expand...


Thank you, I think.
 
Pam said:
So, what you're saying is that if I'd kept my big mouth shut, ...

Story of my life...
Click to expand...

you're making me giggle now Pam...
 
Pam,

Reading for your pleasure, though I'm not sure if it will help clear up the use of auxins.

http://agron.scijournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/62/5/576

I was doing a search for fertilizers - organic or chemical that will stimulate tuber production. My challege is three-fold: grow at least a three-foot tall potato plant by August 1; produce lots of potatoes per layer (12 layers) and have the potatoes not be soggy, which probably will happen if I use only ammonia nitrate. The Naphthenates seem to be a solution.

Now if I can figure out what products have these!

Mike
 
Pam said:
I've been reading and researching on plant hormones. There was an inordinate amount of the particulate carbon byproduct of combustion being forcibly cast out from puckered posterior orifices for me to be comfortable continuing the discussion started in "First Pepper of the 2008 Season..."

First, I may be incorrectly calling them plant hormones at all. Some of the references I read said a more correct name would be plant growth regulators rather than plant hormones. Second is the assumption that we understand enough about plant physiology to understand and/or predict the effect of all or most phyto-compounds on our bodies. From the amount of research being done I would say there's a whole honkin lot we don't know. We already know that some of them have a powerful effect on our bodies. Phyto-estrogens, which, despite the name, are flavoinoids, are an excellent example. A few years back, I had some problems with uterine fibroid tumors. I wanted very much to avoid a hysterectomy and the first thing I was told was to avoid all soy and soy products. I bet most of you have an herbal supplement or two in your medicine cabinets, too.

So, I looked and looked for any work being done on auxin, since it’s the plant growth regulator seems to be the one most used by gardeners. I couldn’t find a single paper that tested its safety, only one that used indole acetic acid and follicle stimulating hormone in sheep ovary tissue culture to stimulate normal follicle development. Yeah, that was a lively read. I searched the OMRI (sit down, I’m not talking about you) web site, and didn’t find a single product that listed auxin. Botaincare has a couple of products listed, but not the ones that have auxin in them. Oddly enough, there was a whole subsection of products with gibberellic acid.

There were lots of sites that warned auxin in high concentrations is what makes a lot of herbicides work, and that auxin was the herbicide in Agent Orange.

So, I’m back to the fact that we don’t know if giving plants plant growth regulators is safe. If the research has been done, I couldn’t find it. And no, we can’t just assume it is because it seems logical. Remember they gave women synthetic hormones at menopause for years because it seemed to make sense that the estrogen would ameliorate hot flashes and the like, plus give some protection against heart attacks and cancer. Boy howdy is *that* a mess.

Now, as to the more immediate effects, auxin is why AJ’s plants are tall and straight. Auxin controls apical dominance and suppression of the lateral buds. Compare his 2 foot tall nagas with some of the equally healthy but bushy plants that some of the others have produced.

This is not, btw, a criticism, but an observation. I know others of you use products with plant growth regulators in them, but I read up on the Botanicare he’s using, and he has posted such lovely pictures. And he’ll forgive me for picking on him. *blows AJ a kiss* And I'm not suggesting that there is anything wrong with or unhealthy about AJ's plants, just that they clearly show the effects of auxin supplementation.

I’m not sure if giving them auxin will affect the amount and quality of the peppers produced. Auxin does play some part in initiating bud formation, but it’s a minor role and not as clear cut as apical dominance. It can delay flower senescence, but I’m not clear if delaying senescence would delay fruiting. Senescence is defined literally as the growth phase from full maturity to death of a plant or plant part.

Now, all this research turned up an interesting tidbit that might explain why my Nagas aren’t growing. I wish I could find the blasted article again, but it suggested that some of the beneficial mycorrhizae being used in horticulture inhibit auxin production. Auxin stimulates the production of secondary roots and, unlike stems, inhibits apical dominance in roots. Frustrated by my inability to get my hands on anything like Pro-Mix, I got something called Soluble Root Growth Enhancer that contains beneficial endo and ecto mycorrhizae. I think, and once again I can’t find the blasted article; but, forcibly casting out particulate carbon byproduct of combustion from my puckered posterior orifice, I think maybe my nagas might actually be auxin deficient. I added some Superthrive to the water of a couple of them last week and almost immediately have gotten a growth bump. And adding the Soluble Root Growth Enhancer is really the only thing I’ve done that’s significantly different.

So, I seem to have put myself right smack dab between a rock and a hard place.
Click to expand...

Wow Pam your good .........
the phylosiphying........botanist....cowgirl.
 
I use Botanicare pure blend which has kelp.

I understand macro and micronutrients and conditions are more important .

Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D., Extension Horticulturist and Associate Professor,
Puyallup Research and Extension Center, Washington State University

The Myth


Conclusions from researchers

1) Plant selection:

“…working with resistant varieties seems to be the best solution [to disease resistance].”

2) Environmental conditions:


“…soil fertility and production conditions were more important growth
and yield determinants than were foliar sprays.”

3) Management techniques:
“If proper planting techniques are followed, the use of biostimulants is
unwarranted.
4) Overall assessment:

“…treatments are ultimately dependent on multiple plant, soil, and
environmental factors, and often have no discernible effects.” “…there appears to be little value in
applying these products.”
5) Marketing

Manufacturers’ claims for the benefits of these products go beyond what is

substantiated by the research.”
“The number of products now on the market seems to outnumber thepublished papers.”
"Variations in plant materials and environmental conditions are greater determinants of plant
health than applications of seaweed extract."


Read More:
http://www.puyallup....ed extracts.pdf
 
Look at a product called Speedy Grow, by Liquid Fence, look on the company website. It is made from kelp, and for some reason it says not to use on food products. Contains auxins and ck.

Kind of ties in with the information in this thread, before the discussion changed th man boobs.
 
"Manufacturers’ claims for the benefits of these products go beyond what is
substantiated by the research.The number of products now on the market seems to outnumber the published papers.”
 
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