vendor Seed Prices

[AJ Drew]

The big boys like Pepper Joe and Puckerbutt seem to be hovering around $8.00 / pack of 10.  I read a lot of folk say this is a rediculous asking, but I am none too sure.  Unlike other industry, I think super hots are still cottage.  There is still a perso with a knife sorting and cutting, dicing and drying.  All by hand.

Are their prices really that bad when you consider the amount of labor involved in the effort?

 

[The Hot Pepper]

He threatened to sue you?

 
Gotta love the hyper-exaggerations from this guy.

From what I can tell, based mainly on something Hot Pepper said about new seed sellers, that people come along and try to trash on the guy on top.  So the guys on top get mighty defensive about it.

 
There you go again. I warned you.
 
Never said that! Bye bye.

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

Wow....just....wow.

I think I sprained my brain reading through this.

 

[PrimeTime]

very odd

 

[Downriver]

Now I just finished reading this "fill in the blank" thread. THe only truly SHOCKING thing I read was:
 
 

 
Why do you throw little statements in there that don't exist. To get people on your side because they will read it and believe you if they haven't followed the whole thread?
 
I have no idea about pollination or growing anything but there is nothing wrong with a spirited debate. How is spirited mean? Where is this meanness? Threats, attacks, mean, you love these buzz words to try to win people over.
 
Spirited = passionate and determined.

 
You gotta be sh!tting me! Boss, is this really true?
 
If so, I truly salute you and all you have accomplished in our little piece of heaven here!
 
If not, then you're mean, a liar and your pants are on fire!
 

 

[Jeff H]

Now I just finished reading this "fill in the blank" thread. THe only truly SHOCKING thing I read was:
 
 
 
You gotta be sh!tting me! Boss, is this really true?
 
If so, I truly salute you and all you have accomplished in our little piece of heaven here!
 
If not, then you're mean, a liar and your pants are on fire!
 

 
Yeah, I saw that too, but you have to understand that the boss man lives in that concrete jungle NYC. Not many opportunities to grow hot peppers there.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

I EAT SPICY NOT GROW SPICY!
 
Now if I didn't eat spicy, that would be shocking. Like grantmichaels not liking hot sauce lol. That was shocking!

I have a small "yard," maybe I will grow in pots this year, if you guys will help me.

PS. Here is what shocked me lol:
 

I don't hot sauce. I don't have a single bottle of hot sauce in the house, actually ...

 

[Geonerd]

This thread reminds me of a dead whale washed up on the shore.
At first it's a fun spectacle, but the novelty soon wears off, leaving the observer feeling somewhat squishy and uncomfortable.
 
Who's got some spare dynamite? 

 

 

[FGpepperguy]

Paul linnman from 1970..... I'm dating myself and location

 

[grantmichaels]

You guys just made my day, which is a small accomplishment in earnest, since I'm vacationing ...
I EAT SPICY NOT GROW SPICY!
 
Now if I didn't eat spicy, that would be shocking. Like grantmichaels not liking hot sauce lol. That was shocking!

I have a small "yard," maybe I will grow in pots this year, if you guys will help me.

PS. Here is what shocked me lol:
 



Truth, though.

Sriracha is as close as it gets here. I've kept Crystal in times past, but no longer do ...

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

Truth, though.

Sriracha is as close as it gets here. I've kept Crystal in times past, but no longer do ...

 
If my dog starves to death this winter, it's your fault. 
 
Just sayin. 

 

[grantmichaels]

If you make test batches of LDHR and send 'em over, I'll use them for a bunch of cooks and it'll be like splish-splash, pre-launch Google Juice all over the place ... but I've never met a sauce that I felt I needed beyond sprinkled powder!

I'm sure they taste good, I just don't know when I'd reach for ANY sauce in terms of the stuff I eat ...

I would probably like some on nachos, but never make them ...

I can imagine it on eggs, but Danielle's eggs are already in the top five reasons to marry (and the other four are easy to deduce) ...

LOL.

 

[sicman]

You guys just made my day

as long as everyone could do that.

 

[CAPCOM]

 
lol. i yi yi...
NO im not missing the point, you are. a HYBRID is when two species are crossed. If it was by accident YES it was not isolated and IT WAS OP. If YOU intentionally did it, then no it wasn't open pollinated..but as I said in ALL my statements that would be manually pollinating..aka self pollinating...you manually did it. I already said that. If you did not intentionally and by hand pollinate the flowers then YES my friend..they were open pollinated. Period.
 
I NEVER said "all plants are open pollinated". I said, if you reread, that if you personally did not pollinate the flowers by hand then YES they are open pollinated and I stick by that statement because it is fact.

Open pollination is pollination by insects, birds, wind, or other natural mechanisms, and contrasts with cleistogamy, closed pollination, which is one of the many types of self pollination.[1] Open pollination also contrasts withcontrolled pollination, a procedure used to ensure that all seeds of a crop are descended from parents with known traits, and are therefore more likely to have the desired traits.
 
Hybrid pollination, a type of controlled pollination in which the pollen comes from a different strain (or species), can be used to increase crop suitability, especially through heterosis. 
 
 
hybrids that are created by accident while are indeed a hybrid/cross..they WERE in fact open pollinated.
 
A controlled hybrid means someone intentionally did it..and I agree is NOT open pollinated and I never said it was, on the contrary.

Wait a minute... A devils advocate moment here.
 
So what is it if I grow a 5 acre crop of Brown Morugas and Douglahs in this fashion
 
BM  D  BM D  BM D  BM  D  BM
D  BM  D  BM  D  BM D  BM  D
 
You get the idea.
 
In a remote area say 50 miles from the nearest residential area and I place 4 honey bee hives at each end of the crop field.
Is it open pollination or is it controlled pollenation?
 
It is an intentional effort to cross pollinate the two varieties without manually doing so by hand.

 

[ronaldo_fanbelt]

I don't care what it is, but my mouth is watering.

 

[Orekoc]

Wait a minute... A devils advocate moment here.
 
So what is it if I grow a 5 acre crop of Brown Morugas and Douglahs in this fashion
 
BM  D  BM D  BM D  BM  D  BM
D  BM  D  BM  D  BM D  BM  D
 
You get the idea.
 
In a remote area say 50 miles from the nearest residential area and I place 4 honey bee hives at each end of the crop field.
Is it open pollination or is it controlled pollenation?
 
It is an intentional effort to cross pollinate the two varieties without manually doing so by hand.

Well, you weren't asking me, but I'll bite. It is OP, where this is a very strong likelihood of cross pollinization happening. (I'm not sure what the average rate of crossing is for peppers,) But for each seed, you have no idea till you grow it whether it is a cross or not and unless you keep track of which plant each pod came from, you won't know if the cross is BM x D or D x BM and it can make a difference. Now if you did it by hand, you'd have a much better idea, like 99% + that the cross took, resulting in the hybrid you are trying to make.
 
Now if it was corn, and one of the lines was male sterile, then you could call it a controlled cross by OP. Of course, corn pollen is wind blown and sweet corn pollen has been measured at traveling 5 miles, so take that into account.
 
Clear as mud?

 

[CAPCOM]

Well, you weren't asking me, but I'll bite. It is OP, where this is a very strong likelihood of cross pollinization happening. (I'm not sure what the average rate of crossing is for peppers,) But for each seed, you have no idea till you grow it whether it is a cross or not and unless you keep track of which plant each pod came from, you won't know if the cross is BM x D or D x BM and it can make a difference. Now if you did it by hand, you'd have a much better idea, like 99% + that the cross took, resulting in the hybrid you are trying to make.
 
Now if it was corn, and one of the lines was male sterile, then you could call it a controlled cross by OP. Of course, corn pollen is wind blown and sweet corn pollen has been measured at traveling 5 miles, so take that into account.
 
Clear as mud?

Nicely done.


 
But I'll opt for controlled in this aspect for a couple of reasons.
 
1. It is controlled in as much as you can have control over such a vast program. I would challenge anyone to conduct a hand pollination program with a greater percentage of success. And even with hand (controlled pollination), there is no absolute certainty of any greater success unless you go through the time and labor pervasive process of removing the stamens from all the flowers and then hand pollinating each of the stigma of all the flowers on all the 5 acres of plants.
 
2. With the plants so interspersed and 4 bee hives in such close proximity, there is little chance of the selected cross pollination to not occur.
 
I think open pollination crosses is more chance than anything else, with many underlying and maybe unintentional possibilities.
 
I could be wrong, but it's just my opinion and how I like to look at it

 

[Orekoc]

Paul linnman from 1970..... I'm dating myself and location

Meeting you today, I gotta say, you don't look old enough to remember that.

 

[FGpepperguy]

Meeting you today, I gotta say, you don't look old enough to remember that.

Nice meeting you today Orekoc, even though it was brief.  I remember Paul when I was a kid.  Granted it was not 1970, but was closer to 1989....  I was born in 1979 just 10 miles from where you met me today.

 

[Orekoc]

 
Nicely done.


 
But I'll opt for controlled in this aspect for a couple of reasons.
 
1. It is controlled in as much as you can have control over such a vast program. I would challenge anyone to conduct a hand pollination program with a greater percentage of success. And even with hand (controlled pollination), there is no absolute certainty of any greater success unless you go through the time and labor pervasive process of removing the stamens from all the flowers and then hand pollinating each of the stigma of all the flowers on all the 5 acres of plants.
 
2. With the plants so interspersed and 4 bee hives in such close proximity, there is little chance of the selected cross pollination to not occur.
 
I think open pollination crosses is more chance than anything else, with many underlying and maybe unintentional possibilities.
 
I could be wrong, but it's just my opinion and how I like to look at

Edit: Thank you for the nicely done.
 
I'm going to pick a nit or two here.
 
First, I have no problem with how you look at it. None.
 
What needs to be thought of is, what is the purpose of the cross? To sell seed as a hybrid? Then what you propose wouldn't work. You'd need a male sterile line or a self sterile line of peppers for it to work. I don't know of any, but if they exist, then what you propose would work fine, provided you save the seed from only the male sterile plants, as you know they are the hybrid seeds.
 
If the point is to bring genes in from one plant to another, like you want to create a mustard brain strain, then doing the hand cross would work. You only need one seed of the F1 cross to get hundreds if not thousands of seed of for the F2 generation. Grow as many F2s as possible and select out of those the ones that best meet your intended goal. Grow as many seeds as possible from that plant (or plants) and select the best from those, etc. With any luck in 8 or 9 generations you will have a stable new variety. You can up your chance, by doing back crosses, but once you've got the pheno type you want, you still need 8 or 9 generations to get a stable variety. I won't go into the concept of homozygous fatal genes, which can mess up an idea of a variety big time.
 
Finally, I believe that most people here write OP on seeds to indicate that there is no guarantee that a cross didn't happen. Basically they are saying "I didn't go to any extra trouble to insure that the plant did not cross with another pepper." It is a warning that you might get something different, and that is fine with me. Now if the seeds were from a business, then it wouldn't be ok. Unless they were selling it as an unstable variety and if so, they need to state that explicitly.
 
Finally yes, you can have F2 seed that is OP. F2 to is just the generation of the seed down from the original cross. Once you are past the F1 generation seed all bets are off. Even if the plants were isolated, so they self pollinated, there are genes still segregating and combining. Look at the SBP7 and how many different pheno types came out of it. That is the whole point of selecting out of hybrids. To make new varieties.
 
End lecture.
 
Edited to correct spelling/word usage.

 

[CAPCOM]

Edit: Thank you for the nicely done.
 
I'm going to pick a nit or two here.
 
First, I have no problem with how you look at it. None.
 
What needs to be thought of is, what is the purpose of the cross? To sell seed as a hybrid? Oh no, not at all. The only thing you would use from these plant for the next several generations would be the fruit. Then what you propose wouldn't work. You'd need a male sterile line or a self sterile line of peppers for it to work. I don't know of any, but if they exist, then what you propose would work fine, provided you save the seed from only the male sterile plants, as you know they are the hybrid seeds.
 
If the point is to bring genes in from one plant to another, like you want to create a mustard brain strain, then doing the hand cross would work.I agree, but take into account the scale of the procedure, 5 acres. You only need one seed of the F1 cross to get hundreds if not thousands of seed of for the F2 generation. Grow as many F2s as possible and select out of those the ones that best meet your intended goal. Grow as many seeds as possible from that plant (or plants) and select the best from those, etc. With any luck in 8 or 9 generations you will have a stable new variety. You can up your chance, by doing back crosses, but once you've got the pheno type you want, you still need 8 or 9 generations to get a stable variety. I won't go into the concept of homozygous fatal genes, which can mess up an idea of a variety big time.
 
Finally, I believe that most people here write OP on seeds to indicate that they is no guarantee that a cross didn't happen. Basically they are saying "I didn't go to any extra trouble to insure that the plant did not cross with another pepper." It is a warning that you might get something different, and that is fine with me. Now if the seeds were from a business, then it wouldn't be ok. Unless they were selling it as an unstable variety and if so, they need to state that explicitly.
 
Finally yes, you can have F2 seed that is OP. F2 to is just the generation of the seed down from the original cross. Once you are past the F1 generation seed all bets are off. Even if the plants were isolated, so they self pollinated, there are genes still segregating and combining. Look at the SBP7 and how many different pheno types came out of it. That is the whole point of selecting out of hybrids. To make new varieties.
 
End lecture.

I have to admit, I too was picking a nit when I made my hypothetical reply that you are now retorting to. Allow me to explain further what the madness of my method is. first, no seeds would be sold from the subsequent 1st cross. 1 select pod from each plant would be taken and grown in the spot of the parent and the repeat grow would ensue. this process would be repeated and again.
 
The point I was making is, that although these plants were not being crossed deliberately by hand, they also were not by the terms many choose to use open pollinated, in the sense that open inherently infers random. I guess I would coin the term more accuracy as (open pollination with extreme prejudice). 
 
And it appeared the definition of op vs. controlled was getting precariously close to contradiction, or a personal preference in terms.