Just getting this started so I can get a url.
I will post more about this in a couple of days.
Happy New Year, 2021!
I will post more about this in a couple of days.
Happy New Year, 2021!
Last edited:
Wild, Indeed, Community Thread
- Thread starter PaulG
- Start date
I'd like to know what anyone else thinks
of the Tolito, especially if someone else is
growing it (or has grown it in the past) and
has photos to compare with my own.
According to infernochili.net, these are
frutescens characteristics:
Dark, shiny leaves - check.
Flower clearly greenish, no spots - check.
Flower erect, small with sharp curve - check.
Purple anthers - ? Hard for me to tell.
Infernochili.net claims frutescens may be a
domesticated species, but closer to wild
capsicums than any other domesticated
pepper.
of the Tolito, especially if someone else is
growing it (or has grown it in the past) and
has photos to compare with my own.
According to infernochili.net, these are
frutescens characteristics:
Dark, shiny leaves - check.
Flower clearly greenish, no spots - check.
Flower erect, small with sharp curve - check.
Purple anthers - ? Hard for me to tell.
Infernochili.net claims frutescens may be a
domesticated species, but closer to wild
capsicums than any other domesticated
pepper.
CaneDog
eXtreme
Hey PaulG. Great to see that Tolito's already flowering for you. Mine are well behind, but they'll come along as it continues to warm up.
What I consider the big indicator here towards frutescens is the greenish tint to the flower.. I see annuum that display the characteristic erect pedicle, so I feel less inclined to weight that heavily, especially on only one occurrence. I don't feel super confident on distinguishing based on leaves, though sometimes I'll look at a plant and think the leaves just look like annuum. But with annuum, I'm not used to seeing the green tint versus a milky white.
I read an interesting article about morphology of frutescens in SE Asia, which indicated a variety of style, filament, and anther colors as well as variation in certain other characteristics often used as indicators. I believe a greenish tint was universal to their samples. IIRC, it also spoke to differences in morphological characteristics that appeared more commonly in more domesticated frutescens varieties versus those believed to be less domesticated. To my understanding, SE Asia has some very popularly cultivated frutescens varieties and Wiri Wiri is another popular example.
Anyhow, here's a link to the article - https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/tropics/14/1/14_1_111/_article/-char/en Another interesting thing in the article was the representation of frutescens varieties with colored spots at the corolla base. I'd be very interested in growing one of those, though I can't imagine where to find seeds.
What I consider the big indicator here towards frutescens is the greenish tint to the flower.. I see annuum that display the characteristic erect pedicle, so I feel less inclined to weight that heavily, especially on only one occurrence. I don't feel super confident on distinguishing based on leaves, though sometimes I'll look at a plant and think the leaves just look like annuum. But with annuum, I'm not used to seeing the green tint versus a milky white.
I read an interesting article about morphology of frutescens in SE Asia, which indicated a variety of style, filament, and anther colors as well as variation in certain other characteristics often used as indicators. I believe a greenish tint was universal to their samples. IIRC, it also spoke to differences in morphological characteristics that appeared more commonly in more domesticated frutescens varieties versus those believed to be less domesticated. To my understanding, SE Asia has some very popularly cultivated frutescens varieties and Wiri Wiri is another popular example.
Anyhow, here's a link to the article - https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/tropics/14/1/14_1_111/_article/-char/en Another interesting thing in the article was the representation of frutescens varieties with colored spots at the corolla base. I'd be very interested in growing one of those, though I can't imagine where to find seeds.
Backpacking in SE Asia was easy in my younger times 
Thailand seems a fair choice as destination ...
Thailand seems a fair choice as destination ...Also, that publication is from 2004... I travelled in the region around that time (04-10) - Malaysia, Burma, Sri Lanka - and many backpackers at that time liked Laos (2 ascensions...) because it was still set-back and beginning to open-up. Thailand was already very easy to travel around. Perhaps that is also reflected in the number of ascensions.
Also, Thai plant vendors are well represented on the internet. I bought Canna seeds there through e-bay in 2018. Even p3y0t3 is popular in Thailand... And don't forget Aussie traders... As they say (said?), an Aussie who looks for an Aussie partner goes to Thailand... THSC has quite some Asian varieties that are hard to find elsewhere.
Also, Thai plant vendors are well represented on the internet. I bought Canna seeds there through e-bay in 2018. Even p3y0t3 is popular in Thailand... And don't forget Aussie traders... As they say (said?), an Aussie who looks for an Aussie partner goes to Thailand... THSC has quite some Asian varieties that are hard to find elsewhere.
Well, I thought my Wiri-Wiri was a c. chinense.
Live and learn.
I wonder if the Western Hemisphere c. frutescens
are different than the Eastern hemisphere ones.
Perhaps less variation? I really don't have much
experience with Asian chilis, or even Asia (except
'Nam in 1970.) Or with wild varieties in general,
actually.
Live and learn.
I wonder if the Western Hemisphere c. frutescens
are different than the Eastern hemisphere ones.
Perhaps less variation? I really don't have much
experience with Asian chilis, or even Asia (except
'Nam in 1970.) Or with wild varieties in general,
actually.
CaneDog
eXtreme
Thanks, ahayastani. Really cool that you were able to go traveling and exploring in those areas.
I haven't yet noticed pictures of the flowers of a spotted variety in an offering, but keep my eyes open. The frutescens I've grown have been mostly from Africa and South America, but I plan on acquiring some from SEA origins and, given the apparently favorable ratios in those locations, I'm hopeful to get lucky. Plus I expect there will be benefits to a trial and error process until I do locate one
I haven't yet noticed pictures of the flowers of a spotted variety in an offering, but keep my eyes open. The frutescens I've grown have been mostly from Africa and South America, but I plan on acquiring some from SEA origins and, given the apparently favorable ratios in those locations, I'm hopeful to get lucky. Plus I expect there will be benefits to a trial and error process until I do locate one
Here in MX I never see frutescens offered for sale in the (super)market. I grew Madre de Rios last year, which I can recommend. Special taste, the birds agreed 
It's the closest I've found, though it's not identical (in my judgement):
It's the closest I've found, though it's not identical (in my judgement):
You are making good use of that raised bed, Siv! 
My chiltepin is now investing its energy in branching... It's becoming quite a voluminous bush now. Still no signs of flowers. Views from side and above.
CaneDog
eXtreme
With the improved weather and day length I'm finally starting to see good growth kick in on the majority of the OW wild plants on the back deck. I I had cut back most of them significantly, many to sticks, so it's good to see them healthy and coming back to life. It'll probably be July though before they really look solid again.
Here's some of what I have going on.
Lanceolatum
Baccatum Fragilis and HeatMiser's wild-collected TX Tepin
Tepin Cappuccino - This variety is notorious for germinating late, starting slow, and setting, and ripening very late for me.
Peach Frutescens - looking bushy. This one could be impressive if and when it finally opens up.
Cumari Selvagem from Leo (light colored seed). I like how super fuzzy this gets.
Flibu
USDA Cardenasii "B" Genetics.
CGN Cardenasii - This variety has a lighter colored flower and more orange than red fruits, compared to the USDA.
Wild Brazil. I thought this guy didn't make it, but it's actually coming back strong.
I wanted to include some Flexuosum (standard and purple flowered) and Tovarii pics, but they're bigger plants and tough to isolate from the background to get a good pic. This is a standard flexuosum that was badly damaged during a storm last fall (blown off a table and down the deck stairs) but it's putting out strong new growth now from the broken limbs.
And a couple that aren't overwinters...
The new crop of HM's TX Tepin from the 2014 seeds.
And Chacoense Most Prolific
Looking forward to posting more of the others soon and as the season warms up when they all start flowering and such.
Here's some of what I have going on.
Lanceolatum
Baccatum Fragilis and HeatMiser's wild-collected TX Tepin
Tepin Cappuccino - This variety is notorious for germinating late, starting slow, and setting, and ripening very late for me.
Peach Frutescens - looking bushy. This one could be impressive if and when it finally opens up.
Cumari Selvagem from Leo (light colored seed). I like how super fuzzy this gets.
Flibu
USDA Cardenasii "B" Genetics.
CGN Cardenasii - This variety has a lighter colored flower and more orange than red fruits, compared to the USDA.
Wild Brazil. I thought this guy didn't make it, but it's actually coming back strong.
I wanted to include some Flexuosum (standard and purple flowered) and Tovarii pics, but they're bigger plants and tough to isolate from the background to get a good pic. This is a standard flexuosum that was badly damaged during a storm last fall (blown off a table and down the deck stairs) but it's putting out strong new growth now from the broken limbs.
And a couple that aren't overwinters...
The new crop of HM's TX Tepin from the 2014 seeds.
And Chacoense Most Prolific
Looking forward to posting more of the others soon and as the season warms up when they all start flowering and such.
Nice photos and growth that makes you hope for more
The leaves of the lanceolatum are very appealing.
The leaves of the lanceolatum are very appealing.