HARD APPLE CIDER ... any tips ?
- Thread starter chilliman
- Start date
you said it - just enjoy 
I am thinking PEAR.
I hear complicating the simple apple cider recipes recks em`, and you are better off keeping it simple.
I am thinking of using above recipe again, with:
- cut granny smiths & a pear in a stocking floating, for last 2-3 weeks of fermenting.
- pear and apple juice , rather than just apple.
Is about all I will do, apparently the pear will give it more tannins, there for more of a bit.
I am probably going to add another bottle of honey as well.
And use NO dex , and just go with damarara, castor, and brown. Might try one with raw too
I hear complicating the simple apple cider recipes recks em`, and you are better off keeping it simple.
I am thinking of using above recipe again, with:
- cut granny smiths & a pear in a stocking floating, for last 2-3 weeks of fermenting.
- pear and apple juice , rather than just apple.
Is about all I will do, apparently the pear will give it more tannins, there for more of a bit.
I am probably going to add another bottle of honey as well.
And use NO dex , and just go with damarara, castor, and brown. Might try one with raw too
Been doing some reading on the beloved drink. and found some stuff I thought I might share !
One of the best resources: http://www.cider.org.uk/frameset.htm
Found this which was interesting considering I used PET, but i never let mine sit for 6 mths.
BOTTLES - PET vs. Glass
I have for several years used glass bottles with crown caps for my naturally conditioned sweet ciders (made by keeving) and recovered soft-drink PET bottles for my naturally conditioned dry ciders. Both seemed fine. But I'd never used PET for sweet naturally conditioned cider. I knew well from my professional life that PET bottles are gas permeable but I didn't anticipate any problem from that fact - they'd certainly always held the CO2 pressure very well.
In spring 2000, I had so much keeved cider that I was in urgent need of about 750 new litre bottles. I looked at the price of champagne bottles but they were about 40 pence each and would weigh literally a ton! The Bristol Bottle Company offered me 750 ml glass bottles or 1 litre PET bottles for 14 pence each. Unfortunately the glass bottles are delivered palletised, they require a forklift to take them off the lorry, and they weigh half a ton! Since I'm a hobby cidermaker with no forklift and very difficult vehicle access, I chose the PET bottles. These came prepacked in cardboard outers each of sixty bottles which were featherlight to handle. I duly filled them with keeved cider at an SG of about 1.015 for natural conditioning. I also filled a much smaller number of regular crown-capped glass bottles with exactly the same cider.
After about a month (April 2000), the PET bottles had developed the normal turgor due to the internal pressure of naturally generated CO2. But when I came to tasting and comparing it with the glass, it seemed noticeably dryer and less well balanced than the glass-bottled version. At six months, the difference was extremely marked. All the PET bottles had become effectively naturally conditioned dry ciders, and only the glass bottles retained the naturally conditioned sweetness I was aiming at (and, incidentally, the subtle spicy bittersweet aroma character). The PET bottles also carried a much more pronounced yeast deposit and a greater degree of carbonation than in the glass. After nine months, the differences were still marked, but the PET ciders had begun to lose some carbonation perhaps due to diffusion. In some way they'd almost regained their balance, but it was a different balance from their glass contemporaries and without the complexity of flavour. And there was a slight hint of volatile acidity - not enough to be objectionable - but detectable all the same.
All these facts can I think be explained as follows:
PET is gas permeable while glass is not. This means that the yeast in the PET bottles can continue to draw in oxygen from outside, through the walls of the bottle, while simultaneously generating a positive pressure of CO2 inside the bottle. Hence the yeast in PET continues to metabolise the residual sugar by aerobic respiration during storage, leading to a dryer cider with a heavier yeast deposit. In glass, the oxygen from air is limiting. Once it's used up, the yeast is effectively starved and can metabolise more sugar in the keeved cider only with great difficulty. This anaerobic fermentation proceeds very slowly and leads to a different (and more desirable) balance of flavour compounds, with greater retained sugar and less carbonation.
Although this is almost certainly true it's also counter-intuitive! Because the PET bottles develop a nice positive pressure of CO2 inside them, one then assumes that no other gas such as oxygen can diffuse back in. Unfortunately this simply isn't the case - the laws of physics here are all about partial pressures, and the partial pressure of oxygen is higher outside the bottle than in, so it can diffuse through. This is despite the fact that the partial pressure of another gas (CO2) is higher inside than out! Bizarre but it fits the facts.
Of course this does not apply to sweet artificially carbonated commercial bottled ciders, since they have no yeast inside to metabolise the diffusing oxygen, so they stay sweet. They do suffer in the long term from this oxygen diffusion, and also from carbonation loss, which is beginning to happen to mine after nine months too!
The 'take-home' message for craft cidermakers making sweet naturally conditioned ciders is simply that glass is the best. PET is OK, but it ain't so good!
And here is some great science behind apples and the art of cider...
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/scrumpy/cider/cider.htm
One of the best resources: http://www.cider.org.uk/frameset.htm
Found this which was interesting considering I used PET, but i never let mine sit for 6 mths.
BOTTLES - PET vs. Glass
I have for several years used glass bottles with crown caps for my naturally conditioned sweet ciders (made by keeving) and recovered soft-drink PET bottles for my naturally conditioned dry ciders. Both seemed fine. But I'd never used PET for sweet naturally conditioned cider. I knew well from my professional life that PET bottles are gas permeable but I didn't anticipate any problem from that fact - they'd certainly always held the CO2 pressure very well.
In spring 2000, I had so much keeved cider that I was in urgent need of about 750 new litre bottles. I looked at the price of champagne bottles but they were about 40 pence each and would weigh literally a ton! The Bristol Bottle Company offered me 750 ml glass bottles or 1 litre PET bottles for 14 pence each. Unfortunately the glass bottles are delivered palletised, they require a forklift to take them off the lorry, and they weigh half a ton! Since I'm a hobby cidermaker with no forklift and very difficult vehicle access, I chose the PET bottles. These came prepacked in cardboard outers each of sixty bottles which were featherlight to handle. I duly filled them with keeved cider at an SG of about 1.015 for natural conditioning. I also filled a much smaller number of regular crown-capped glass bottles with exactly the same cider.
After about a month (April 2000), the PET bottles had developed the normal turgor due to the internal pressure of naturally generated CO2. But when I came to tasting and comparing it with the glass, it seemed noticeably dryer and less well balanced than the glass-bottled version. At six months, the difference was extremely marked. All the PET bottles had become effectively naturally conditioned dry ciders, and only the glass bottles retained the naturally conditioned sweetness I was aiming at (and, incidentally, the subtle spicy bittersweet aroma character). The PET bottles also carried a much more pronounced yeast deposit and a greater degree of carbonation than in the glass. After nine months, the differences were still marked, but the PET ciders had begun to lose some carbonation perhaps due to diffusion. In some way they'd almost regained their balance, but it was a different balance from their glass contemporaries and without the complexity of flavour. And there was a slight hint of volatile acidity - not enough to be objectionable - but detectable all the same.
All these facts can I think be explained as follows:
PET is gas permeable while glass is not. This means that the yeast in the PET bottles can continue to draw in oxygen from outside, through the walls of the bottle, while simultaneously generating a positive pressure of CO2 inside the bottle. Hence the yeast in PET continues to metabolise the residual sugar by aerobic respiration during storage, leading to a dryer cider with a heavier yeast deposit. In glass, the oxygen from air is limiting. Once it's used up, the yeast is effectively starved and can metabolise more sugar in the keeved cider only with great difficulty. This anaerobic fermentation proceeds very slowly and leads to a different (and more desirable) balance of flavour compounds, with greater retained sugar and less carbonation.
Although this is almost certainly true it's also counter-intuitive! Because the PET bottles develop a nice positive pressure of CO2 inside them, one then assumes that no other gas such as oxygen can diffuse back in. Unfortunately this simply isn't the case - the laws of physics here are all about partial pressures, and the partial pressure of oxygen is higher outside the bottle than in, so it can diffuse through. This is despite the fact that the partial pressure of another gas (CO2) is higher inside than out! Bizarre but it fits the facts.
Of course this does not apply to sweet artificially carbonated commercial bottled ciders, since they have no yeast inside to metabolise the diffusing oxygen, so they stay sweet. They do suffer in the long term from this oxygen diffusion, and also from carbonation loss, which is beginning to happen to mine after nine months too!
The 'take-home' message for craft cidermakers making sweet naturally conditioned ciders is simply that glass is the best. PET is OK, but it ain't so good!
And here is some great science behind apples and the art of cider...
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/scrumpy/cider/cider.htm
@ Nova - Pear cider - is actually called PERRY'
here check this out; http://homepage.ntlworld.com/scrumpy/cider/perry.htm
I think I may find a few to throw into the Apple cider for the tannins that it would bring to the mix
here check this out; http://homepage.ntlworld.com/scrumpy/cider/perry.htm
I think I may find a few to throw into the Apple cider for the tannins that it would bring to the mix
Steve973 said:
So with above info on glass vs PET bottles, would it be ok to assume the alcohol content did go up ?
ANYWAYS, Finally putting on another 2 carboy making 60ltr. had alot of 'gardening'
Cant seem to find those pears, so I will have to grow em. But still on the hunt to find a few for next batch.
These I will rack after 4 weeks. Bottle for 4 weeks (min) 1/2 in glass 1/2 in PET.
The release of CO2 carbonates the bottles.....thus proving conversion of sugar into alcohol.......
Not an appreciable amount, but some.
Not an appreciable amount, but some.
Hell yeah, i have about 25 longnecks of Stout and am about to bottle 28 longies of Aussie Pale Ale now. I also have a carboy in first ferment (ready to bottle) of Cooppers India Pale Ale (my fav).
I also have two washes of mash getting ready for the still (will yeild roughly 26 bottles of 80 proof lightening). So yeah, i would say i am ready for the drunk season too
Edit: I will apoligise for future drunk posts in advance!
I also have two washes of mash getting ready for the still (will yeild roughly 26 bottles of 80 proof lightening). So yeah, i would say i am ready for the drunk season too
Edit: I will apoligise for future drunk posts in advance!
Hi, I know I have joined this a bit late but I make cider all the time.
The 40 pint kit you showed is an easy but expensive route it is just apple juice with most of the water removed (to reduce the weight) which you put back in when you make it.
My best tip is go to your local supermarket and buy the cheapest juice you can find.
All you need is one packet of champagne yeast for whatever quantity you have, and some pectolase if you want it clear, leave it out if you don't mind it cloudy.
No need to add sugar. Wait till it clears pour it into fizzy drink bottles and add 1 tsp of sugar per pint and screw on the lid.
Wait for two weeks and you got cider ready to drink.
I tried honey but it tasted a bit strange. I have had some success with a handful of blueberries/raspberries/strawberries(chopped up) just thrown into the bucket.
The 40 pint kit you showed is an easy but expensive route it is just apple juice with most of the water removed (to reduce the weight) which you put back in when you make it.
My best tip is go to your local supermarket and buy the cheapest juice you can find.
All you need is one packet of champagne yeast for whatever quantity you have, and some pectolase if you want it clear, leave it out if you don't mind it cloudy.
No need to add sugar. Wait till it clears pour it into fizzy drink bottles and add 1 tsp of sugar per pint and screw on the lid.
Wait for two weeks and you got cider ready to drink.
I tried honey but it tasted a bit strange. I have had some success with a handful of blueberries/raspberries/strawberries(chopped up) just thrown into the bucket.
Just a quick question......Useing apple juice?? I have a 5 gallon batch of German Apfelwein (Apple Wine) which recipe is very similar to what you posted.....I think the recipe you posted will make a Dry Apple Wine.....When I make Hard Cider I start with fresh Cider I get from a local Producer.