It has the same competition as any other pepper. They have no competition for this strain of pepper, because they have exclusivity. Next year, everyone will have them and there will be competition and the price will come down. Five years ago could you buy a Blue Ray player for $70? That's the going price now. It's market forces.
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hp22b!
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It has the same competition as any other pepper. They have no competition for this strain of pepper, because they have exclusivity. Next year, everyone will have them and there will be competition and the price will come down. Five years ago could you buy a Blue Ray player for $70? That's the going price now. It's market forces.
I'm not refering to you man, or anyone for that matter, just refering to the complaining in general over this whole deal. Were all here because we all love chiles and everything that comes along with this hobby and that's where it should stay
Sure you can take it that way. By ripoff I'm just meaning overpriced here (I was being too hyperbolic it seems!). One could argue that the "worlds hottest pepper" claim is misleading and dishonest even with test results. However, I'm not taken it that far. Although, I'd love to see the test results for scrutiny. I'll step down from the discussion since I never meant to post so much on this topic.
Great debate. No one resulted to name calling or real insults. 
No one can really claim "World's Hottest" simply because heat varies plant to plant and pod to pod. The most you can claim is that the test showed you grew a pepper that tested hottest. I'm willing to bet I could test any random Butch T or Morouga and it won't reach the 1.4 million SHU that the record tested at. The premium they're charging for the new pepper will be based simply on the official Guinness result, then you're paying for the name. That is what has value to the buyer, to say they are growing the world's hottest pepper in their own garden. You can debate accuracy of the tests, definition of Capsaicin heat, whatever, but once it hits the Guinness book, it doesn't get any more official. It's there in black and white.
No one can really claim "World's Hottest" simply because heat varies plant to plant and pod to pod. The most you can claim is that the test showed you grew a pepper that tested hottest. I'm willing to bet I could test any random Butch T or Morouga and it won't reach the 1.4 million SHU that the record tested at. The premium they're charging for the new pepper will be based simply on the official Guinness result, then you're paying for the name. That is what has value to the buyer, to say they are growing the world's hottest pepper in their own garden. You can debate accuracy of the tests, definition of Capsaicin heat, whatever, but once it hits the Guinness book, it doesn't get any more official. It's there in black and white.
Agreed, seeds, even seeds that are $1 each, are the cheap part of the hobby. Soil, fertilizer, containers and TIME, are the expensive parts. I personally would much rather pay $1/seed and know that it was going to grow true than to invest $10 in caring for a seed that might not. Let alone the 5-6 months of time invested just to find out I have been screwed.
Though $1 per seed does seem expensive, I can tell you from experience that isolating plants, harvesting seed, ensuring the seeds dry properly, and preparing seeds for shipping can be very time consuming. I am sure these guys want to get paid for their time and that in essence is what you are paying for. Except in their case you are paying for even more time because it has should have taken several years for this pepper to become stable. (If that is the case, I am not judging here).
As far as I am concerned, with the seeds I sell, the seeds don't cost anything, but my time and effort do. I didn't have to spend years developing the strains I sell, but I do have to spend hundreds of hours every year to make sure my customers get exactly what they want and that I am not wasting their time.
Cheap part of the hobby or not 10 seeds should not be anywhere close to $15 a pack shipped. Even with the work involved selling them for $8 shipped would make you more then enough money. Anything over that IMO is just gouging/greedy and should be boycotted. Personally if I created a new pepper I would want to share it to fellow growers at a reasonable price that would cover costs and put a little something in my pocket.
So you would go through all the effort of starting a business, invest time money and resources to make "just enough" money? What if $8 wasn't enough to cover expenses? Do you know everything that went into the development of these particular seeds? Five years working on getting the stabilization he was comfortable with and just now will he be starting to see some return. I think it's greedy to let someone else put all that work into something and just expect them to sell it to you cheap. Nobody is obliged to sell their work to you at your price. Just like you're not obliged to buy the product. Nobody's gouging anyone. It's a pepper seed. If that one is overpriced there are a dozen other million SHU plus strains that are within your price expectation. It's a niche market.
If the price for this pepper is overpriced then I challenge anyone to make a hotter pepper strain and sell it at that volume cheaper. See if it's worth your time to just eek by.
Although I won't believe thehottest pepper in the world hype until it is tested and recognized by guiness to beat the butch t, (yes butch t not moruga because that is avg 1.2m butch t is 1.4) I do feel that if they want to charge $100 per pack of seeds they should be able ot. Why, because they created them and if nobody wants to buy them then too bad, but they can charge whatever they want for them since they are the only ones who have them. ALso, People don't just want to "cover costs" they want to be rich or at least make a good living off of whatever they do.
Thats a pretty bold claim unless you have some very intimate knowledge about the facilities that were used, the local cost of materials that were used, any investors that need to be taken care of, etc.
Again, I agree that $15 for 10 seeds is expensive, but to assume that there is some sort of gouging going on is a bit premature. I would speculate, if Ed was running ONE commercial greenhouse dedicated to the development of this pepper for 4 years, then he may be very hard pressed to turn much of a profit at $15 a pack.
Not knowing what a companies overhead is makes it impossible to say whether or not there is price gouging. Again, I am not saying either way, if they are or are not gouging everyone on the price, but I am saying its not fair to accuse them without knowing all of the variables.
If you feel like its too expensive, then don't buy it. That is how capitalism works, if enough people stand their ground and don't buy at $15 a pack the price will drop. Next year when people are giving away seeds, the price will drop. No matter what your hobby, when you are an early adopter of the latest greatest thing you will always pay a premium.
There is a limited time to take advantage of something new, especially if you spent years developing it.
I don't begrudge anyone a small bit of profit, seeing that shortly everyone interested will be providing the same for less.
Boom or bust, ya gotta make hay while the sun shines.
I do know a way to make money longer term on new varieties while insuring I am the only source, or limiting the sources---but it will p*$$ off quite a few people, so I'll keep it mum till for a while.
I don't begrudge anyone a small bit of profit, seeing that shortly everyone interested will be providing the same for less.
Boom or bust, ya gotta make hay while the sun shines.
I do know a way to make money longer term on new varieties while insuring I am the only source, or limiting the sources---but it will p*$$ off quite a few people, so I'll keep it mum till for a while.
I know what its costs to grow to peppers (both indoors and outdoors). Also to create a cross and grow it out you don't need a lot of space until the stage you are growing them for seeds. A couple dozen plants for each stage is more then enough (specially after F3) so you don't even need that big of a green house until you get into production stage. When you are at production stage you can make a good sum of money for $8 shipped and don't need to gouge ppl $15 a pack. At very least they should do free shipping as the cost to ship a pack world wide is super cheap so why charge $4.50 unless you are to gouge people. I done extensive research on this as I was looking to run a online shop and thinking about making a few crosses.
This is not unlike pharmacutical manufacturers.
They spend bucks and time on R&D, then they get an exclusive for a few years to recoop and make some profit.
That gives them incentive to develope, innovate, or find the next big thing, or cure.
Same thing here...
Those of you calling it a hobby are only partially right.
Remember, it's YOUR hobby, sure, but it's sombody else's livelihood.
If you want to grow peppers for a hobby and keep it cheap, then grow some Orange Habs. The seeds are next to nothing.
If you want the latest and greatest, then it will cost because you are subsidising (in this case) someones time. Not nessesarily a huge expense but they did have to spend a bunch of time.
If your really that unhappy about it, cross your own super pepper. It's free after all if you have some seeds and feel like following simple things like isolation and hand pollination.
They spend bucks and time on R&D, then they get an exclusive for a few years to recoop and make some profit.
That gives them incentive to develope, innovate, or find the next big thing, or cure.
Same thing here...
Those of you calling it a hobby are only partially right.
Remember, it's YOUR hobby, sure, but it's sombody else's livelihood.
If you want to grow peppers for a hobby and keep it cheap, then grow some Orange Habs. The seeds are next to nothing.
If you want the latest and greatest, then it will cost because you are subsidising (in this case) someones time. Not nessesarily a huge expense but they did have to spend a bunch of time.
If your really that unhappy about it, cross your own super pepper. It's free after all if you have some seeds and feel like following simple things like isolation and hand pollination.
Again, I totally see your point. $5 for shipping may be a bit ridiculous depending on how they are shipping them. If they are shipping them in a plain envelope with just a stamp on it, then yes, there is $4 going straight into pocket. If they ship them in bubble mailers, as first class packages with tracking then its more like $1 going straight in pocket. I charge $2.95 shipping on seeds but it actually costs me $3.30 plus the labeling and packaging so I lose a little over a $1 on every order. I can definitely see where they don't want to lose money on shipping especially when they plan to ship 10,000 packages. If I shipped 10,000 seed orders a year, you better believe I would start finding ways to make back the $10,000 I lost on shipping.
If these peppers start showing up in an envelope with a single 34 cent stamp on them, then I will jump right on that boat with you!
I get complaints about my shipping price at $2.95 as well, but I have to do it in order to stay in business. The USPS won't track a first class envelope. If I don't track orders (which I have tried) about half of all the orders will get disputed in PayPal. People are dishonest! Then I am out the seeds and the money for the order. The only way around it is to track the order, which even doing as cheaply as possible costs $3.30. Being that you are in Canada you very well have more options for shipping that we do not have here in the US.
Though you may only need a minimum of a few dozen plants for breeding, but that doesn't mean you couldn't go much, much bigger. Maybe you are looking for a very specific trait that isn't going to show up in a few dozen plants.
Your arguments are valid, but I still don't think its fair to say that they are gouging when there are still many unknowns. I hope that when you start your business that you find a inexpensive way to develop your strains and pass that savings onto the consumer. Maybe we could all learn from your techniques.
Cough.....firsties.......cough.
You can make a living and not gouge your consumer on things like shipping. Even with bubble [background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]mailers its not $4.50 because you are going to be buying bulk. "[/background]simple things like isolation and hand pollination." this is simple btw.
I don't mind throwing my money at American family farm any day.... just sayin. Especially to Ed and his Family, I have only ever had positive interactions with them.
Peppermeister..... Jealous !!!
Peppermeister..... Jealous !!!
I got these seeds as a gift from Pepper Joe. According to him, I am officially the first customer in the world to have them. I'm looking forward to the press release on labor day. He also sent me a bunch of free herb and tomato seeds.
http://peppermeister.wordpress.com
http://peppermeister.wordpress.com
To me it's not as much the price they charge as the way some vendor/vendors are hawking them.
Lots of Creative advertising that changes all the time.
Butch gave his Scorpions away for a long time for free or SASBE.
Now the latest stuff I read about Butch T's says he grows them in OZ.
Didn't know he moved to OZ...
Got my first 7 pot Jonahs and T.Scorpion Jonahs from him for the asking years ago.
$ has taken over these days.
He who sells pepper seeds for the most $ wins.
Lots of Creative advertising that changes all the time.
Butch gave his Scorpions away for a long time for free or SASBE.
Now the latest stuff I read about Butch T's says he grows them in OZ.
Didn't know he moved to OZ...
Got my first 7 pot Jonahs and T.Scorpion Jonahs from him for the asking years ago.
$ has taken over these days.
He who sells pepper seeds for the most $ wins.
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