I love my guns

[CAPCOM]

 
Yeah, I just got on a roll fixing your post because I thought bird shot was a really bad idea. I wouldn't use slugs either, but I surely would use buckshot. No way would I rely on bird shot to keep a guy  down . 
 
Penetration tests: http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-3-the-shotgun-meets-the-box-o-truth/

Go with 2 oz of copper plated #4 in a 3'' mag, also known as turkey load. At close range it would be very lethal and still has the mass to remain so out to 20 yds +. More than adequate for any home outside of Beverly hills or Palm beach.

 

[Proud Marine Dad]

 
Yeah, I just got on a roll fixing your post because I thought bird shot was a really bad idea. I wouldn't use slugs either, but I surely would use buckshot. No way would I rely on bird shot to keep a guy  down . 
 
Penetration tests: http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-3-the-shotgun-meets-the-box-o-truth/

This is a hotly debated subject and I would like to see some facts rather than opinions as everyone has one of those.
Here is a video by a guy that swears by #8 birdshot.

Mike Lamb of Stoic Ventures is an expert with videos on YouTube and he recommends #4 buckshot as that is what he uses in his home.
He trains military and police all over the country and was a Recon Marine.

     So the lesson is… Use 3.5" birdshot Nitromags. Full-auto. That way you don't have to question the knockdown power of one shell. There will be several more shots on their way before the bad guy hits the floor.
     But seriously Jeff, thanks for posting that. I've got some more reading to do… Until then I'll stick to my 1911 with 78gr. +P hollow points for all my indoor shooting needs.

78 gr bullets in a .45 ACP?

 

[Hybrid Mode 01]

 

78 gr bullets in a .45 ACP?

 
     Believe me, I thought the guy that told me about them was mistaken too. The rounds are incredibly light - they feel like they're made out of styrofoam and the bullet is more "hollow" than "point". I haven't shot any yet, but I've heard the recoil is significantly less than the SWC or ball I'm used to. It might be a good round to start my wife shooting - she's been bugging me to take her to the range.   

 

[Proud Marine Dad]

Which .45 ACP do you have Dash?
I have an old Smith & Wesson 4506.

 

[Hybrid Mode 01]

Colt Series 70. Aren't 1911's great? There's something about that 2.5 lb. chunk of machined stainless that just makes me smile. 

 

[Proud Marine Dad]

Colt Series 70. Aren't 1911's great? There's something about that 2.5 lb. chunk of machined stainless that just makes me smile. 

Yes my S&W is hefty as well. Love it. Feels like quality! I just did a search earlier this morning and many people think the S&W 4506 is one of the best .45's ever made.
Wow!

 

[Helvete]

a friend of mine who is a Marine combat veteran and now a firearms safety instructor at a range got these printed as some business cards
 

 

 

[Weed]

People who swear by certain loads or cartridges make me think they are fending off home invasions once a week.
 
Get real.

 

[Proud Marine Dad]

Some calibers and loads are proven manstoppers so why not swear by them?

 

[Weed]

.22LR is a proven man-stopper

 

[CAPCOM]

.22LR is a proven man-stopper

I can guarantee with absolute certainty that I'll take a .22 and still empty my magazine on my counterpart, whereas he will be incapacitated on the first shot.
Yes, a .22 can kill you but it severely lacks hydrostatic shocking power and or KE.

People who swear by certain loads or cartridges make me think they are fending off home invasions once a week.
 
Get real.

I am sure that's not what they intend to infer. But in such a case, you only get one chance to get it right. There is no second place in a gunfight.

 

[Weed]

I can guarantee with absolute certainty that I'll take a .22 and still empty my magazine on my counterpart, whereas he will be incapacitated on the first shot.
Yes, a .22 can kill you but it severely lacks hydrostatic shocking power and or KE.

 
I just need 1 or 2 shots with a 22 and no sights out to a couple hundred yards down to 3 feet. At which point it becomes a club.
 
I think you overestimate the amount of lead needed.
 
You also have to remember that you're always being sold the next best thing. Hooray Capitalism.

 

[Jan]

I can guarantee with absolute certainty that I'll take a .22 and still empty my magazine on my counterpart, whereas he will be incapacitated on the first shot.
Yes, a .22 can kill you but it severely lacks hydrostatic shocking power and or KE.



I have a defense book somewhere where the author, talking about firearms mentions a guy who was interrupted by two military police as he was robbing a store in koria I think, the guy took a .45 through the heart and still emptied his own firearm.
I know I have shot a hog in the torso with my 12g slug gun and it still looked to tear me up but for a bunch of follow up shots.

I don't say .22 is great defense or that cal doesn't matter but placement sure matters a lot more

 

[CAPCOM]

I can guarantee with absolute certainty that I'll take a .22 and still empty my magazine on my counterpart, whereas he will be incapacitated on the first shot.
Yes, a .22 can kill you but it severely lacks hydrostatic shocking power and or KE.



I have a defense book somewhere where the author, talking about firearms mentions a guy who was interrupted by two military police as he was robbing a store in koria I think, the guy took a .45 through the heart and still emptied his own firearm.
I know I have shot a hog in the torso with my 12g slug gun and it still looked to tear me up but for a bunch of follow up shots.

I don't say .22 is great defense or that cal doesn't matter but placement sure matters a lot more

 
Animals are much different than humans. I know of no human being that can take a arrow through both lungs and run 60 yds as a deer can. And you are correct that shot placement is key in defensive shooting. but a man can take several .22s to the torso and not even know he has been shot because the .22 lacks sufficient "knockdown power"
A 240gr PDX in .45 is going to stop you if for only a fraction of a second for what follows.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8QrWm3Acc0

 

[Weed]

but placement sure matters a lot more

 
I can only assume you mean placement in the head since you just mentioned a failed heart shot?
 
Any hunter should know that body placement and stopping power sometimes dont even matter because I must have heard a thousand different stories about how a deer ran 150 yards shot in the heart. A side headshot on a deer usually results in at least one lung being shot also.
 
The one story I never heard is how a deer, or anything, ran anywhere after a clean shot to the  head.
 
If the goal is really stopping power then a smaller more accurate weapon seems like the answer.

 
Animals are much different than humans. I know of no human being that can take a arrow through both lungs and run 60 yds as a deer can. And you are correct that shot placement is key in defensive shooting. but a man can take several .22s to the torso and not even know he has been shot because the .22 lacks sufficient "knockdown power"
A 240gr PDX in .45 is going to stop you if for only a fraction of a second for what follows.
 
 

 
nah man, people are animals too
 

Mortally wounded aunt still saves her nephew, 8: Carries boy to safety as bullets fly in Brooklyn
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/mortally-wounded-aunt-saves-nephew-8-carries-boy-safety-bullets-fly-brooklyn-article-1.399887

 

[sicman]

 
I can only assume you mean placement in the head since you just mentioned a failed heart shot?
 
Any hunter should know that body placement and stopping power sometimes dont even matter because I must have heard a thousand different stories about how a deer ran 150 yards shot in the heart. A side headshot on a deer usually results in at least one lung being shot also.
 
The one story I never heard is how a deer, or anything, ran anywhere after a clean shot to the  head.
 
If the goal is really stopping power then a smaller more accurate weapon seems like the answer.

 
nah man, people are animals too
 
Mortally wounded aunt still saves her nephew, 8: Carries boy to safety as bullets fly in Brooklyn
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/mortally-wounded-aunt-saves-nephew-8-carries-boy-safety-bullets-fly-brooklyn-article-1.399887

 

[CAPCOM]

Not the same context.

 

[Weed]

 
wut?

 

Not the same context.

Not the same context? I dont see how not. It was the very first result google returned using pretty broad keywords.
 
Why would the police, from what I have seen, be firm believers in stopping power if people were so different from animals?

 

[Jan]

I lived in Mozambique during the civil war, that video clip with the Mozambique drill was kinda funny cause the one thing both Renamo and Frelemo were known for was not being able to hit a thing! They would get high on marajuana to get brave then kinda mosey around the battlefield, little groups would suddenly remember what they were doing and launch a frenzied assault on the sky. I always thought if only all wars were fought like that what a wonderful world it would be.
I was a kid, my dad used to take his sony handycam to battle.

 

[CAPCOM]

 
 

 


Not the same context? I dont see how not. It was the very first result google returned using pretty broad keywords.
 
Why would the police, from what I have seen, be firm believers in stopping power if people were so different from animals?

 I haven't seen the coroners report but I can be most certain she was not hit in a vital organ such as the heart or lungs. Being mortally wounded only means that without immediate medical help you can bleed out. It doesn't
 
 
People require much less stopping power then animals do. I am referring to bears, deer, elk, moose etc   not squirrels, rabbits or the like.
I could shoot 100 men broadside with a muzzy broad head and 100 would drop like a sack of potatoes whereas a medium to large game animal would run up to several hundred yards before succumbing.mean you will die instantly.