Hi Dave,
Good to see you here
Good to see you here
Yellow Bhut Jolokia - ChileSeeds
- Thread starter cmpman1974
- Start date
Hello to all, It is time to clear up a couple of things about the above chile. "Yellow Bhut Jolokia" I have created some unintended confusion surrounding this chile so I wanted to clear things up and apologize for doing so. Yes I am "asiasgarden" from Ebay. (Asia is my daughter) I had no idea that I would stumble upon 2 long threads on 2 different chile related sites regarding this chile. When this chile showed up this past August on my farm I wasn't sure how to explain what I had. The seeds came from UNM CPI. Until I was able to isolate some chiles on our farm I purchased new seeds each year. This past year we grew approx. 300 Bhut Jolokia plants from CPI seed stock. in the field came 7 plants that gave me yellow bhuts. They are NOT a cross. I did not use this term to intentially mislead but had made the decision to say "cross pollinated" as I thought it would be easier to understand by what I believed would only be home garden growers. Not hardcore, well seasoned chile growers!! How wrong I was. I also did'nt know how to explain it fully at the time. I was simply eager to share what I had stumbled upon and add to my selling inventory....... so thats the "rest of the story" I feel bad that so many have used valuable time discussing something that could have been understood from the beggining by accurate wording on my part. I have discussed this chile at length with Paul Bosland and concluded that it could only be a mutated bhut as the seeds came from red Bhuts on his farm. Since there were 7 plants the mutation had to have happened in the previous year as the odds of 7 coming out of 300 would be astronomical. Paul asked for me to mail some to the UNM-CPI which I was happy to do. By the time this was ironed out and understood, Gerald came along from Chiliseeds.uk. So hence the two descriptions and same photos. Of course I changed the wording on the Ebay ads to mutation. My apologies again for the confusion and wasting any of your valuable time. (you could have been talking about something WAY more important) I guess the bright spot is.....If it were a cross that would mean a diminishing of the strain. If any are interested I had many taste tests during the summer with this chile side by side with the Red Bhut and found no discernable difference in heat. One testor said he thought it was hotter......... Now to stabilize this beauty. If any on this forum are interested in trading..... I would consider this. drop me a line!!
So now ........ I am ready for my tar and feathering!! ; >) Dave
So now ........ I am ready for my tar and feathering!! ; >) Dave
I believe it could be hotter than the red, I received some seeds and there was a bit of placenta,of course I've got to try it!... It bit my tongue just as I put it in my mouth....SMACK.....yeah not bad!!!!!
Well Dave, I bought some of your seeds back in November. I will be starting them in about a week. Now I remember on the description for the ad on Ebay that you stated that this was a result of careful cross pollination, now you are saying that it was from CPI seedstock and you found it in August. Have you grown out any of the seeds to see what comes in subsequent generations? It's hard to believe that you can come to the conclusion that it is a product of careful crossing, then a mutation without seeing what the offspring are like.
I am interested in seeing what comes out of the seeds, which is why I bought them. The sample you sent with the seeds was tasty and pretty hot. Hopefully it will come out like that.
jacob
I am interested in seeing what comes out of the seeds, which is why I bought them. The sample you sent with the seeds was tasty and pretty hot. Hopefully it will come out like that.
jacob
I'm the proud father of 2 new little ones. um Here's one.
Thanks Dave.
Thanks Dave.
It's been a struggle with the cold room they're in, but some survivors are still hangin' on. There's 3 in this shot. 
Tar and Feathering time Yellow Bhut Jolokia
I now think it's time for me to interject here. In September 2009 I asked Dave what he had. He said and I quote him "this chile was cross-pollinated with another yellow chile" So now I read him saying he did not understand what cross-pollination was and therefore changed the wording to mutation. Sounds like backpedaling.
Now I did not have just E Mail with Dave I also had phone conversation. I asked questions over and over again. I am not stupid. And he also says in this thread he put a lot of work into this. What work??? He said this happened this year. If he had put work into it it would have been say maybe a few years. Sounds like he's calling himself a botanist. Well anyone of us here can take a small brush and brush flowers from two different plants this season and then get something different. No work involved here. Now it was David who contacted Bosland not Bosland who contacted Dave. Paul told me he gets lots of stuff sent to him every year. There are always people trying to get NMSU to validate thing.
So I give you now my opinions on all of this. This whole Yellow Bhut Jolokia is all about marketing hype for sales and making money. Now we all have to earn money but at what expense. Do we all start cross-pollinating and start making fancy chiles and then claim that they are mutations? Then when we get caught say we were misunderstood or we have been diligently working on a new project!!! What is it??? An accidental mutation (ie:The Red Savina story) or a Botany cross-pollination project. It cant be both!
Lets look at the Red Savina story. Frank Garcia just happens to find one Red habanero pepper plant in an entire field of Orange Habaneros. Then he hypes it and calls the right people and yes claims he was working on it to perfect the species. Sound familiar. Then he gets official testing done. Sound familiar Because now Dave sends stuff to Bosland. This is all a setup to market something that was deliberately cross-pollinated. But actually Frank Garcia's story has a little more credibility. Because it was one plant. Dave just happened to get 1 in ten trillion odds and have 6 plants!!!!!! Wow!!! What do you all make of that! Just happened to get enough plants so he can have plenty of seed sales on E Bay.
Again anyone of us can do this. It is hard enough for us all to keep the integrity of species intact. If we all start mixing things up in species and lie about them by claiming a new discovery to make money then can we get up in the morning and look in the mirror at ourselves and like what we see??? I might cross a Devils Tongue with a Bhut to see the results but if I do I will call it a cross. Ethically nobody should sell seeds and make any profit the first year a cross is made or first generation. Why?? Because it may remain a cross but it also may be a Hybrid. Dave created this in 2009. He should give away seeds because they may revert back to one of the parent species. Call it a cross Dave and refund peoples money because that is the right thing to do. Then next season if it comes out Yellow market it as a cross.
There are two reasons I am pissed off about all of this. First lying to chile growers who might spend a whole season growing something that is not what it is claimed to be. The second reason I am upset is so many people might be inspired to do this same thing for a profit. Bad enough the large seed companies are trying to eliminate open pollination and flood the market with Hybrids. Now are we going to do it too!!!
Now because I deal with seeds some of you may say I have motive to trash Dave here. You can all believe what you want. I have copies of my original E Bay E mail with Dave from September 2009. And I know what was told to me in our phone conversation. So do we all start crossing species now and lie about their origin to make money????? That is a question only you can answer.
P.S.I have a pic of Devils Tongue that I can share by E Mail that looks almost exactly like Yellow Bhut. Feel free to contact me.
I now think it's time for me to interject here. In September 2009 I asked Dave what he had. He said and I quote him "this chile was cross-pollinated with another yellow chile" So now I read him saying he did not understand what cross-pollination was and therefore changed the wording to mutation. Sounds like backpedaling.
Now I did not have just E Mail with Dave I also had phone conversation. I asked questions over and over again. I am not stupid. And he also says in this thread he put a lot of work into this. What work??? He said this happened this year. If he had put work into it it would have been say maybe a few years. Sounds like he's calling himself a botanist. Well anyone of us here can take a small brush and brush flowers from two different plants this season and then get something different. No work involved here. Now it was David who contacted Bosland not Bosland who contacted Dave. Paul told me he gets lots of stuff sent to him every year. There are always people trying to get NMSU to validate thing.
So I give you now my opinions on all of this. This whole Yellow Bhut Jolokia is all about marketing hype for sales and making money. Now we all have to earn money but at what expense. Do we all start cross-pollinating and start making fancy chiles and then claim that they are mutations? Then when we get caught say we were misunderstood or we have been diligently working on a new project!!! What is it??? An accidental mutation (ie:The Red Savina story) or a Botany cross-pollination project. It cant be both!
Lets look at the Red Savina story. Frank Garcia just happens to find one Red habanero pepper plant in an entire field of Orange Habaneros. Then he hypes it and calls the right people and yes claims he was working on it to perfect the species. Sound familiar. Then he gets official testing done. Sound familiar Because now Dave sends stuff to Bosland. This is all a setup to market something that was deliberately cross-pollinated. But actually Frank Garcia's story has a little more credibility. Because it was one plant. Dave just happened to get 1 in ten trillion odds and have 6 plants!!!!!! Wow!!! What do you all make of that! Just happened to get enough plants so he can have plenty of seed sales on E Bay.
Again anyone of us can do this. It is hard enough for us all to keep the integrity of species intact. If we all start mixing things up in species and lie about them by claiming a new discovery to make money then can we get up in the morning and look in the mirror at ourselves and like what we see??? I might cross a Devils Tongue with a Bhut to see the results but if I do I will call it a cross. Ethically nobody should sell seeds and make any profit the first year a cross is made or first generation. Why?? Because it may remain a cross but it also may be a Hybrid. Dave created this in 2009. He should give away seeds because they may revert back to one of the parent species. Call it a cross Dave and refund peoples money because that is the right thing to do. Then next season if it comes out Yellow market it as a cross.
There are two reasons I am pissed off about all of this. First lying to chile growers who might spend a whole season growing something that is not what it is claimed to be. The second reason I am upset is so many people might be inspired to do this same thing for a profit. Bad enough the large seed companies are trying to eliminate open pollination and flood the market with Hybrids. Now are we going to do it too!!!
Now because I deal with seeds some of you may say I have motive to trash Dave here. You can all believe what you want. I have copies of my original E Bay E mail with Dave from September 2009. And I know what was told to me in our phone conversation. So do we all start crossing species now and lie about their origin to make money????? That is a question only you can answer.
P.S.I have a pic of Devils Tongue that I can share by E Mail that looks almost exactly like Yellow Bhut. Feel free to contact me.
Ouch...
Obviously the writer of the above rant is having trouble reading AND understading what was written in my previous statement. So I will repeat myself for him. I said what was needed to be said to clear up what I started. I apologized. It was the right thing to do. If Jim D. wants to now say that the statement I made to bring clarity to this is a lie, then that's his problem. (among many others) If Jim has convinced himself that this was a ploy on my part to make money, that too is his problem.
1.) " I read him saying he did not understand what cross-pollination was and therefore changed the wording to mutation." This is what I wrote: "I did not use this term to intentially mislead but had made the decision to say "cross pollinated" as I thought it would be easier to understand by what I believed would only be home garden growers. Not hardcore, well seasoned chile growers!! How wrong I was. I also did'nt know how to explain it fully at the time. Meaning I didn't understand about mutation.
2.) " Dave just happened to get 1 in ten trillion odds and have 6 plants!!!!!! Wow!!! What do you all make of that! Just happened to get enough plants so he can have plenty of seed sales on E Bay." What I REALLY said: " This past year we grew approx. 300 Bhut Jolokia plants from CPI seed stock. in the field came 7 plants that gave me yellow bhuts." I also wrote this: "Since there were 7 plants the mutation had to have happened in the previous year as the odds of 7 coming out of 300 would be astronomical." In which the mutation had to have happened the previous year. Which is what Dr. Bosland and I discussed. Jim you have to actually READ what I wrote.
3.)" he also says in this thread he put a lot of work into this." Actually, I did not say this anywhere in this thread.
4.) Frank Garcia wanted to control ($) the Red Savina. I stumbled across something I was willing to share. Yes I sell them. Jim D. the author of the rant above sells seeds too. So how are we REALY different? The difference between Garcia and me? Anyone can grow these "Yellow Bhut" seeds and sell the chiles, the seeds, use the chiles in food products etc.... without worry of being sued for infringement of a Trade Mark. The world is FULL of hybrids and crosses. Literally thousands. It is sad but true. This is what there is, deal with it.
I have seen Fatalii chiles that have some similarities to this chile, I have seen Devils Tounge chiles that have some similar traits. Neither has the placenta with seeds connected all the way to the tip. (A Bhut Jolokia trait. see photos of Yellow Bhut opened up)
I really do think I deserve to be ridiculed about this. I started it and need to deal with the consequences. Jim D's above rant is one of them. BUT, For him to say that I would advertize this as a cross then change my mind and say it is a mutation as part of some scheme to sell seeds is ludicris. I was already selling them quite well. This is a hobby for me and something I have a great deal of love for. Of all the things we grow on this farm, I love growing chiles especially. I have apologized once for this. I will apologize again. If Jim D. wants to continue writing here in this public forum about me...... so be it. He bought seeds from me like many others. He has every right to be upset and has let me know that here and in other recent emails sent to me. I am not going to repond more about this as I think it would lead to saying something unkind. I really like this forum and the many I have met and corresponded with. To all the many who wrote requesting seed trades, Thank you so much. I sincerely appreciate it. If anyone would like to know more or have any questions or comments about this feel free to email or PM me....... Or like Jim D., post it here publicly, I can deal with it. Dave
1.) " I read him saying he did not understand what cross-pollination was and therefore changed the wording to mutation." This is what I wrote: "I did not use this term to intentially mislead but had made the decision to say "cross pollinated" as I thought it would be easier to understand by what I believed would only be home garden growers. Not hardcore, well seasoned chile growers!! How wrong I was. I also did'nt know how to explain it fully at the time. Meaning I didn't understand about mutation.
2.) " Dave just happened to get 1 in ten trillion odds and have 6 plants!!!!!! Wow!!! What do you all make of that! Just happened to get enough plants so he can have plenty of seed sales on E Bay." What I REALLY said: " This past year we grew approx. 300 Bhut Jolokia plants from CPI seed stock. in the field came 7 plants that gave me yellow bhuts." I also wrote this: "Since there were 7 plants the mutation had to have happened in the previous year as the odds of 7 coming out of 300 would be astronomical." In which the mutation had to have happened the previous year. Which is what Dr. Bosland and I discussed. Jim you have to actually READ what I wrote.
3.)" he also says in this thread he put a lot of work into this." Actually, I did not say this anywhere in this thread.
4.) Frank Garcia wanted to control ($) the Red Savina. I stumbled across something I was willing to share. Yes I sell them. Jim D. the author of the rant above sells seeds too. So how are we REALY different? The difference between Garcia and me? Anyone can grow these "Yellow Bhut" seeds and sell the chiles, the seeds, use the chiles in food products etc.... without worry of being sued for infringement of a Trade Mark. The world is FULL of hybrids and crosses. Literally thousands. It is sad but true. This is what there is, deal with it.
I have seen Fatalii chiles that have some similarities to this chile, I have seen Devils Tounge chiles that have some similar traits. Neither has the placenta with seeds connected all the way to the tip. (A Bhut Jolokia trait. see photos of Yellow Bhut opened up)
I really do think I deserve to be ridiculed about this. I started it and need to deal with the consequences. Jim D's above rant is one of them. BUT, For him to say that I would advertize this as a cross then change my mind and say it is a mutation as part of some scheme to sell seeds is ludicris. I was already selling them quite well. This is a hobby for me and something I have a great deal of love for. Of all the things we grow on this farm, I love growing chiles especially. I have apologized once for this. I will apologize again. If Jim D. wants to continue writing here in this public forum about me...... so be it. He bought seeds from me like many others. He has every right to be upset and has let me know that here and in other recent emails sent to me. I am not going to repond more about this as I think it would lead to saying something unkind. I really like this forum and the many I have met and corresponded with. To all the many who wrote requesting seed trades, Thank you so much. I sincerely appreciate it. If anyone would like to know more or have any questions or comments about this feel free to email or PM me....... Or like Jim D., post it here publicly, I can deal with it. Dave
Yellow Bhut
Sorry Dave but you have stated that you have worked on this. You have stated that it was a cross pollination especially in your response via E Bay E mail to me which I have copy of for anyone to see. You verbally told me over the phone that you crossed the Bhut with another Yellow type back in September 09. Now you say it's a mutation. And sorry the chances of you getting a second generation group of 6 plants mutated is still one in a trillion. With all the Bhut growers out there now NMSU, Frontal Agritech etc who have grown for years and never seen anything Yellow plus I have a friend who grew up in Assam province and her family still lives there and nobody has ever seen a Yellow Bhut. So now all of a sudden you not only have one plant but six?? Now I dont believe in ghosts, UFO's or Urban Legends but the probability of them being true far outweighs you getting six plants come out Yellow. Plus you told me you crossed it back in September 2009. And I advised you back then not to sell it as a Bhut but label it as a cross. And I also told you I would tell others about it if you continued to market it. Now you are trying to gain credibility and a name for yourself. I have E Mailed my copy of our original E Bay correspondence to about 10 people so far. Let them be your judge. Please stick to Hot sauce or Chile Powder because your ethics in selling seeds has been compromised for all to see now. Have you told everyone here that you grow all your species on the same property??? Nothing isolated. Do you now have the power to tell the bees and insects where to go and what to do??? Anyone can Google earth your property and see it is mostly woods and your farming areas are close to one another. Yes I sell seeds Dave and even bought from you once in quantity. I hope they grow true because if not you will be hearing from me again. Do the right thing and give people their money back for the Yellow Bhut.
Sorry Dave but you have stated that you have worked on this. You have stated that it was a cross pollination especially in your response via E Bay E mail to me which I have copy of for anyone to see. You verbally told me over the phone that you crossed the Bhut with another Yellow type back in September 09. Now you say it's a mutation. And sorry the chances of you getting a second generation group of 6 plants mutated is still one in a trillion. With all the Bhut growers out there now NMSU, Frontal Agritech etc who have grown for years and never seen anything Yellow plus I have a friend who grew up in Assam province and her family still lives there and nobody has ever seen a Yellow Bhut. So now all of a sudden you not only have one plant but six?? Now I dont believe in ghosts, UFO's or Urban Legends but the probability of them being true far outweighs you getting six plants come out Yellow. Plus you told me you crossed it back in September 2009. And I advised you back then not to sell it as a Bhut but label it as a cross. And I also told you I would tell others about it if you continued to market it. Now you are trying to gain credibility and a name for yourself. I have E Mailed my copy of our original E Bay correspondence to about 10 people so far. Let them be your judge. Please stick to Hot sauce or Chile Powder because your ethics in selling seeds has been compromised for all to see now. Have you told everyone here that you grow all your species on the same property??? Nothing isolated. Do you now have the power to tell the bees and insects where to go and what to do??? Anyone can Google earth your property and see it is mostly woods and your farming areas are close to one another. Yes I sell seeds Dave and even bought from you once in quantity. I hope they grow true because if not you will be hearing from me again. Do the right thing and give people their money back for the Yellow Bhut.
We have 11 acres and have done a very good job of isolating the plants we use for seed stock for ourselves and others. I don't think a guy who grows chiles in his backyard in San Diego should be slinging accusations on this topic. You really don't know much about what I do and by the things you are putting in print for all to see, you don't know much about a lot of things, Chile cultivation, communication , tact, common sense etc..... get a life ( and some medication )
Yellow Bhut Jolokia
I don't think a guy who grows chiles in his backyard in San Diego should be slinging accusations on this topic.
I will respond to your above statement and nothing else because I already have said what I have to say on the subject. Yes I grow in my backyard and last year it was over 200 plants. But I also have two Greenhouses in Lakeside California that housed another 500 plants. And then I have groups of plants spread out throughout Eastern, San Diego county in 6 other areas and this year it will be 12 areas. These areas are for seed production plants and nothing else. All locations are miles apart. They are located in the following areas El Cajon, Santee, Lakeside, Spring Valley and La Mesa. My website will show some of these different areas soon. And by end of year I will have pics of the new seed production sites. So I like to see myself as a chile purist who takes the time to do things right. Call me a backyard grower if you wish. But I hold myself to a standard much higher than yourself. And will do my best to not call something it is not. Do the right thing and refund peoples money. And call a cross a cross. Not a scientific new species discovery! Hey didn't Al Gore discover the Internet!
I don't think a guy who grows chiles in his backyard in San Diego should be slinging accusations on this topic.
I will respond to your above statement and nothing else because I already have said what I have to say on the subject. Yes I grow in my backyard and last year it was over 200 plants. But I also have two Greenhouses in Lakeside California that housed another 500 plants. And then I have groups of plants spread out throughout Eastern, San Diego county in 6 other areas and this year it will be 12 areas. These areas are for seed production plants and nothing else. All locations are miles apart. They are located in the following areas El Cajon, Santee, Lakeside, Spring Valley and La Mesa. My website will show some of these different areas soon. And by end of year I will have pics of the new seed production sites. So I like to see myself as a chile purist who takes the time to do things right. Call me a backyard grower if you wish. But I hold myself to a standard much higher than yourself. And will do my best to not call something it is not. Do the right thing and refund peoples money. And call a cross a cross. Not a scientific new species discovery! Hey didn't Al Gore discover the Internet!
Yeah I just google earthed your backyard and see that your neighbor is growing chiles too. If all this makes you feel better Jim you do what you have to do. I think it's a deep seated problem. And making statements about things you know nothing about is immature and childlike. You have these "greenhouses" but bought seeds from me this year? uhhhh Hmmmmm which is it. I think the 2 pages in Dave Dewitts book about your hydroponic garden in your back yard was swell. I think that it has gone to your head too. I could see it on Google Earth. Thank you your "chile pepper holyness" for enlightening us. We await further greatness.
Yellow Bhut
Nice try Dave. But first of all neither of my neighbors grow any vegetables. And Google earth will show a garden area but not a closeup to where you can see whats growing. Second none of my seed production plants are on my own property. Only plants for fresh chiles. Anyone on this forum is free to E mail me and I will show them pics of my larger greenhouses (which are on my website) and also will show some of my locations where I produce seed. And yes I bought seed from you David because my pods were not ripe yet and I wanted to fill a customers needs. Anything else you want to say..........Do the right thing Dave and take your Yellow things off the market and give people their money back.
Nice try Dave. But first of all neither of my neighbors grow any vegetables. And Google earth will show a garden area but not a closeup to where you can see whats growing. Second none of my seed production plants are on my own property. Only plants for fresh chiles. Anyone on this forum is free to E mail me and I will show them pics of my larger greenhouses (which are on my website) and also will show some of my locations where I produce seed. And yes I bought seed from you David because my pods were not ripe yet and I wanted to fill a customers needs. Anything else you want to say..........Do the right thing Dave and take your Yellow things off the market and give people their money back.
Jim, Send the seeds back, I'll refund your money. In fact send anything you have ever purchased from me back. I'll refund you on Paypal right away. Including shipping. You keep saying give people their money back, Lets start with you!! You must have forgotten to take your meds today huh? Keep the posts coming Jim, I'm just warming up.