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seeds 02-03-09 Pepper Seedling Porn

Pam said:
Because everything every government ever tells us is 100% true and accurate forever and ever, amen.
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What a great argument, now I must take evertything written on forums as an absolute thruth instead. Especially the really uncredible claims!

I'll also stop drinking clean water - the man is just shitting us. It' a coverup I say. A coverup.

Back on track: Still waiting for verification of the claim that fruit (chiles) are "flooded with all types of chemicals" because we use "non-natural" fertilizers. Pams lack of humility towards people who actually work with these questions because the man uses their work to make the rules isn't enough:)
 
POTAWIE said:
I guess we should all grow in Mexico and use DDT then? or maybe just use raw sewage.
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Or plutonium? Or minerals from the moon? Or heroin?

My and BillyIdles discussion-within-the-discussion was regarding natural vs un-natural fertilizers available to all of us.

When DDT and raw sewage can be bought over the counter as fertilizers your answer is relevant to that discussion. Now it's not.
 
Back to the growth hormone discussion...

I spent most of the afternoon and evening yesterday googlin' for auxin hits, auxin toxicity, etc. and found some pretty good reading material...

Like Pam said, there is not much out there that is available free to read...there seems to be several articles in some medical journals but you can only read the abstracts and have to buy the whole article.

What I did find that was very interesting to me was a book written in 1955 dealing with auxin ...it is simply titled Auxins and Plant Growth.

After reading the last chapter (XVIII) I have decided to stop adding superthrive to my nutrient schedule.

An excerpt from a paragraph on page 304 says "Each phenomenon in growth and development which is effected by auxins has its own concentration optimum, so that a given auxin concentration may promote one phenomenon and inhibit another."

The phenomenon they are talking about is stem growth, bud growth, and root growth.

"The optimum auxin concentration for growth of stems is higher than that for buds, which is in turn higher than that for roots."

I don't know how much or which growth hormones are in the botanicare products or superthrive that I use or what levels of auxin concentration are required for each stage of growth. After I read the whole book, I may change my mind.

If anyone else is interested in reading this book, here is a link...I downloaded the entire book in an adobe acrobat file. It is 374 pages.

http://www.archive.org/details/auxinsplantgrowt00leop

I will still use the Botanicare regimen but that alone will be used. (and it says on the label "premium organic plnat food" and is listed on the OMRI list).

The auxin subject has peaked my interest and now I can't read enough about it....
 
MrArboc said:
Or plutonium? Or minerals from the moon? Or heroin?

My and BillyIdles discussion-within-the-discussion was regarding natural vs un-natural fertilizers available to all of us.

When DDT and raw sewage can be bought over the counter as fertilizers your answer is relevant to that discussion. Now it's not.
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My point(which I think is relevant) is that there are different standards all over the world and products are always being banned that were at one point popular and "safe". DDT was once sold over the counter so it must have been safe back then?
There is now a lot of evidence of growth hormones and steroids in animals causing cancer and other health issues, so I'm not going to trust that everything being fed to my plants is being "filtered out". E-coli and/or salmonella doesn't appear to get filtered out. I'm not saying every nutrient or hormone is bad for your health, but I wouldn't trust that they are good for you just because they are sold in a store.
 
MrArboc said:
What a great argument, now I must take evertything written on forums as an absolute thruth instead. Especially the really uncredible claims!

I'll also stop drinking clean water - the man is just shitting us. It' a coverup I say. A coverup.

Back on track: Still waiting for verification of the claim that fruit (chiles) are "flooded with all types of chemicals" because we use "non-natural" fertilizers. Pams lack of humility towards people who actually work with these questions because the man uses their work to make the rules isn't enough:)
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You know, coming on the heels of me citing the CDC, this is pretty funny.
 
I thought that, too, but I was told by a couple of ag inspectors that it was *in* the peppers, not just on them when I brought up washing the peppers.


Hm, I wonder if there are any botany guys over in biology that would put up with me bugging them. The guy that used to let me bug him retired, the piker.
 
That is very interesting about the Ecoli being inside the fruit. Everything I have ever heard about it is that it is a surface borne bacteria that needs fresh oxygen to live. Maybe someone, not on this forum but in like a lab or something as pam said, should inject Ecoli into a ripening pod. But then again, plants produce oxygen so there might be fresh oxygen inside these empty pods.
 
Ok, I'm late to this discussion, but what we heard on the news here was that if you bought tomatos still on the vine you were OK. So then all the grocery stores started carrying those. You bought them by the bunch. What difference this made I couldn't quite fathom. And then Florida tomato growers sought and got a statement from the FDA that their tomatos were not at fault, so go ahead and buy them. Please!
It wasn't until WAY after the initial scare that we were told it was "another product often consumed with tomatos" that was to blame. I thought 'hmmm, maybe it's peppers' but I never heard the serrano story. Seriously though, some of the bells and jalapenos sold in stores around here look scary nasty.


re: superthrive
I can live without it. I've seen it recommended so many times I thought I'd give it a try. Now tell me how I can tell if my goat poop is going to be a problem. It's NATURAL!

c.
 
POTAWIE said:
My point(which I think is relevant) is that there are different standards all over the world and products are always being banned that were at one point popular and "safe". DDT was once sold over the counter so it must have been safe back then?
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You are missing my point. I don't advocate pesticides like DDT (which has been banned in Sweden since the 60's) but commercially avaliable fertilizers. The (artificial) fertilizers does not (PROVE ME WRONG!) give an inferior product or harm the environment more than "natural" products.

Then look at the affect on the environment. People who use "non-natural" fertilizer talk about tablespoond every week. OK? The natural people who are friendly to the nature might use "tea" from their wormfarm - a gallon or two. Doesn't relly matter -it's NATUTAL.

*I* am talking about fertilizers. Pests it not an issue for me. Killed maybe 50 slugs with a knife last year but I could as well let them live.
 
I agree that artificial fertilizers aren't neccessarily any worse for you, as I stated before, but I definitely believe they are worse for the environment and the dependance on the chemical fertilizers is a very serious problem.

"When chemical fertilizers are put into the soil they dissolve and seek natural combinations with minerals already present. New combinations glut or overload the plant, causing it to become unbalanced. Others remain in the soil, many in the form of poisons.

Plants that are chemically fertilized may look lush, but lush growth produces watery tissues, which become more susceptible to disease; and the protein quality suffers.

Anyone alive before World War II, especially in Europe, knows that bread, fruit, vegetables, and meat bear no relation to what they were before the war. Our crop yields may have doubled or even tripled, but their nutritive quality has diminished progressively. Visual impression of foods has become the most important factor, though anyone with a glimmer of second sight will pass up, as no more alive than the products of Madame Toussand's wax museum, the cosmetic and congealed displays of the grocery store today.

-- from the book, Secrets of the Soil: New Solutions for Restoring Our Planet
by Peter Tompkins, Christopher Bird
 
POTAWIE said:
I agree that artificial fertilizers aren't neccessarily any worse for you, as I stated before, but I definitely believe they are worse for the environment and the dependance on the chemical fertilizers is a very serious problem.

"When chemical fertilizers are put into the soil they dissolve and seek natural combinations with minerals already present. New combinations glut or overload the plant, causing it to become unbalanced. Others remain in the soil, many in the form of poisons.

Plants that are chemically fertilized may look lush, but lush growth produces watery tissues, which become more susceptible to disease; and the protein quality suffers.

Anyone alive before World War II, especially in Europe, knows that bread, fruit, vegetables, and meat bear no relation to what they were before the war. Our crop yields may have doubled or even tripled, but their nutritive quality has diminished progressively. Visual impression of foods has become the most important factor, though anyone with a glimmer of second sight will pass up, as no more alive than the products of Madame Toussand's wax museum, the cosmetic and congealed displays of the grocery store today.

-- from the book, Secrets of the Soil: New Solutions for Restoring Our Planet
by Peter Tompkins, Christopher Bird
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Beautiful quote, but no proof that "natural" pepper are in any way better than optimally grown peppers. Besides - if you want to be natural humanity would be dead in a few years. Animals cant live on the crop that live in their ..crap alone. Without animal crap we don't stand a chance to grow things the way you consider "natural".
 
POTAWIE said:
Plants that are chemically fertilized may look lush, but lush growth produces watery tissues, which become more susceptible to disease; and the protein quality suffers.

Anyone alive before World War II, especially in Europe, knows that bread, fruit, vegetables, and meat bear no relation to what they were before the war. Our crop yields may have doubled or even tripled, but their nutritive quality has diminished progressively. Visual impression of foods has become the most important factor, though anyone with a glimmer of second sight will pass up, as no more alive than the products of Madame Toussand's wax museum, the cosmetic and congealed displays of the grocery store today.

-- from the book, Secrets of the Soil: New Solutions for Restoring Our Planet
by Peter Tompkins, Christopher Bird
Click to expand...

No doubt, visual appearance is the driving factor in grocery stores. Around here every fruit and vegetable are tasteless, but man do they look good! It's so bad, that it seems the tomatoes are within 5% of each other in size. Organic alternatives, where taste is more important than looks has stared to appear lately, and they are so much better!
 
I encourage you to go to a farmer's market and taste some organic foods for yourself. The taste alone should sell you.

You don't need animals for fertilizer, I'm currently trying a vegan formula and this is a growing trend, a step above "organic" and I'm sure there will be a huge market for this type of product. Also growing green manure and other soil improving crops or natural byproducts. I'm also a strong believer in composting, and building/improving my soil instead of the quick fix of chemicals.
 
POTAWIE said:
I encourage you to go to a farmer's market and taste some organic foods for yourself. The taste alone should sell you.
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If you think that the differens between "organic" growing and normal growing is limited to the kind of fertilizers you use I truly feel sorry for you. And seriously - do you really think that the people at the farmers market only use "natural" fertilzers?
 
The problem is that there's not many such markeds here. I'm living well above the arctic circle, so I guess 99%+ of oll the greens we eat are imported from other areas. There are some localy grown products, but thos are limited to a few summer months. Strawberries for instance. When these are grown under the midnight sun, the taste is undescribable :)
 
MrArboc said:
If you think that the differens between "organic" growing and normal growing is limited to the kind of fertilizers you use I truly feel sorry for you. And seriously - do you really think that the people at the farmers market only use "natural" fertilzers?
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I think that's one of the criterias, yes.
 
I feel sorry for you for not being able to benefit from great tasting "vegetables grown with organic nutrients"(is that better)

My farmer's market has plenty of certified organic grower. I'm not sure what your definition of "natural" is but people take this very seriously and for good reason.
 
POTAWIE said:
I'm not sure what your definition of "natural" is but people take this very seriously and for good reason.
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Potawie,

IME, some people take it seriously, others look at the label and buy it. Some FMs are real strict on labeling, some couldn't care less.

Mike
 
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