beer ASK WHEEBZ

I was roaming the net, as per my usual, and I came across some discussion (podcast) of work by Kai Troester that I believe said that yeast tend to maintain the temperature they are pitched at, which is somewhat fascinating ...
 
I am pretty sure they are talking about non-temp-controlled fermentation chambers and how you really want to pitch at your desired temp, because the yeast will have some degree of inertia in keeping the temp at the center of the wort as close to the pitching temp for as long as they can ... that they are generating heat, and the rate of their budding etc is paced in a way that they will actually try to stay at the temp when they first are both awake and w/ oxygen ...
 
This seems to correlate w/ the Aussie dude's doing no-chill, and then cooling their cube's of wort down to the desired temp using a PID-controlled fridge overnight, and then pitching right at their target the following day ...
 
There was more, like the how/why of the cylindrical-conical shape and the temperature patterns within the primary fermenter, but I thought it was pretty neat that the yeast actually try to maintain the temp they start at, by adjusting the rate of their budding and use of nutrients etc ... Does this make jive w/ your experiences?
 
never seen that
 
go ahead and pitch a belgian yeast at 72 and maintain 72 @ room temp and watch the yeast progressively rise 3 or 4 degrees just from the energy produced
 
perfect example, I pitched an english strain at 68 into a conical inside of a refridgerator on a friday morning. Friday evening we had a homebrewer event where someone knocked the controller for the fermenter out of the plug on the wall
 
came in sunday morning and the beer was all of terminal and sitting at 96 degrees
 
so maintaining temp, havent seen it
 
yeah, i felt like it would be entropic given ample nutes and what i've seen my sourdough starter do ... and your experience fits that, too. i won't commit that concept to my working knowledge, thanks.
 
Grant, when I started brewing I asked Wheebz a thousand questions about shit I'd read too. Here's the secret that I learned about brewing, there are brewers all over this planet looking for that certain something that no ones ever discovered before. The secret is that brewers have been brewing the way they have and following tradition because of one thing, it works! You'll see a million and one articles about year and ingredients at this temp all over the place and koodoos to them because they got it to work.

Here's the real deal, you can play with ingredients all day long, but when it comes the the yeast, let history be your guide. By flavors and style, pay attention to what's been done and you'll come out golden even on the most out of the box ingredients you can come up with!
 
RocketMan said:
Grant, when I started brewing I asked Wheebz a thousand questions about shit I'd read too. Here's the secret that I learned about brewing, there are brewers all over this planet looking for that certain something that no ones ever discovered before. The secret is that brewers have been brewing the way they have and following tradition because of one thing, it works! You'll see a million and one articles about year and ingredients at this temp all over the place and koodoos to them because they got it to work.

Here's the real deal, you can play with ingredients all day long, but when it comes the the yeast, let history be your guide. By flavors and style, pay attention to what's been done and you'll come out golden even on the most out of the box ingredients you can come up with!
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I think that's top advice.
 
I got the impression Wheebz likes to swat down shit after seeing his responses en masse in all of the threads, actually ...
 
Only made better if JayT asks him how he got so awesome immediately afterwards! ...
 
I'm going to post a little more on it in my thread, so as not to ramble in this one ...
 
i only swat down answers to things when I have direct personal experience with the questions being asked and they do not coincide with what my experiences have shown in real time
 
for instance, I have a guy that worked at SAB Miller as a shift brewery for a number of years interviewing for my position at the current brewery I am at, and he said all the big guys ferment their lagers at 95 degrees just under a significant amount of pressure, like 15-17psi, but still use a combination of ale/lager yeast to obtain the results
 
At one end of the spectrum, I know that lager yeast will NOT ferment at those temps without some SERIOUS off flavors and/or death
 
Yet at the same time I have seen yeast strains that ferment under pressure do some pretty serious things, although the most I am used to is strains producing esters and phenols that are not casual to their unstressed environment, which fermenting under pressure absolutely creates
 
Since I haven't done any personal trials yet, I am not skeptical about this procedure, but I am super curious, as it goes against most conventional methods I have ever seen, and I wont steer anyone away or promote this until I do it myself, which I plan to pretty soon
 
I think RM might be worried I'm going to wear you out w/ minutiae ;)
wheebz said:
i only swat down answers to things when I have direct personal experience with the questions being asked and they do not coincide with what my experiences have shown in real time
 
for instance, I have a guy that worked at SAB Miller as a shift brewery for a number of years interviewing for my position at the current brewery I am at, and he said all the big guys ferment their lagers at 95 degrees just under a significant amount of pressure, like 15-17psi, but still use a combination of ale/lager yeast to obtain the results
 
At one end of the spectrum, I know that lager yeast will NOT ferment at those temps without some SERIOUS off flavors and/or death
 
Yet at the same time I have seen yeast strains that ferment under pressure do some pretty serious things, although the most I am used to is strains producing esters and phenols that are not casual to their unstressed environment, which fermenting under pressure absolutely creates
 
Since I haven't done any personal trials yet, I am not skeptical about this procedure, but I am super curious, as it goes against most conventional methods I have ever seen, and I wont steer anyone away or promote this until I do it myself, which I plan to pretty soon
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That's literally the pressure of the autoclaves we used in the OR ...
 
I guess it's pressure cooker/canner PSI too, now that I think of it ...
 
How long does it stay under pressure? ...
 
I'd almost be able to try it on the counter if it was a short enough duration ( http://thehotpepper.com/topic/38863-far-east-heat/?p=1125327), but I suspect there would be too much loss through the steam release valve to maintain the wort for days under pressure.
 
I guess you'd just do this in a keg, actually, right? ...
 
ASK WHEEBZ -
 
There's an subtle off-taste in my brew, that I can't seem to track down. It's like a Heisen-Skunk. What follows is a photograph of my setup, and I'm hoping you might have an idea on how I can focus my QA processes so that my consistency approaches that of American light lager.

6W9Wzcd.jpg

 
Thanks,
gm
 
PS - My whole life and all the lives I'm responsible for are counting on you, man.
 
:drunk:
 
grantmichaels said:
ASK WHEEBZ -
 
There's an subtle off-taste in my brew, that I can't seem to track down. It's like a Heisen-Skunk. What follows is a photograph of my setup, and I'm hoping you might have an idea on how I can focus my QA processes so that my consistency approaches that of American light lager.

attachicon.gif
6W9Wzcd.jpg
 
Thanks,
gm
 
PS - My whole life and all the lives I'm responsible for are counting on you, man.
 
:drunk:
Click to expand...
I .. ummm.. have nothing, but look forward to the big guy's response.  
 
grantmichaels said:
 
I'd love to see pictures of your friends setup, though, next time you are near it!
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Sure.  It is a picture of an 80l wooden barrel under the house.  Not exactly exciting (unless you know what's in it!) but happy to.
RocketMan said:
I still say it would be great for a shrimp or Low Country Boil
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or ice, for consumable beer… 
 
Bumper said:
Sure.  It is a picture of an 80l wooden barrel under the house.  Not exactly exciting (unless you know what's in it!) but happy to.
 
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, true ... I guess the interesting stuff is all inside the cask ...
 
ASK WHEEBZ -
 
Trying to lay down some lesson between your story of your SAB Miller brewer's fermenting under pressure, and St Somewhere's trying to minimize the same pressure for brewing their style ...
 
How is the flat bottom fermenter shape more friendly to the yeast than the bottom of a conical - when both are circular cross-sections?
 
Bob was pretty clear in saying that part of it was from the gas exchange through the cheesecloth and not being closed, but does the shape of the field at the bottom contribute to the yeast QoL (quality of life)? ...
 
Or is it simply that a flat circle is the maximum surface area, and any reduction (from being part of the conical section) is simply a smaller circle w/ less interfacing area w/ the wort? ...
 
It's driving me crazy ;) ...
 
TIA.
 
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