Beer Here

tctenten said:
Then I will cold crash for a minimum of 7 days, but probably longer (Florida here we come) :cheers:
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Which coast?

Bumper said:
GM over thinks things at times.
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GM doesn't like drinking gallons (even two) of mediocre beer.
 
I've suggested it's worth considering hops as a whirlpool addition over dry-hopping if your operation is oxidation prone ... and I'll stick w/ that.
 
There's a reason why people submerge their dry hops in cold water before adding them, why breweries have literally invented tech to keep the DO out, and why the best examples of hoppy beer/breweries are dogmatic about limiting the oxygenation ...
 
Russian River expects 1 ppb DO for the Pliny's, and the O doesn't even register on the meter for Heady Topper over there ...
 
And yeah, still sticking to my guns and suggesting that the less transfers the better if you can't flush w/ CO2 ... and that some whirlpool hops and keeping the beer under a CO2 blanked by keeping the yeast in the game as long as possible makes more sense than crashing them out, racking off the cake, and then finally oxygenating the shit out of it racking it into a bottling bucket ... all before trapping it in a bottle w/ some more.
 
Can't make PIC1's pies using Pillsbury AP flour and water, either =) ...
 
The most ironic thing, though, is that I think the Matt B. presentation that I'm thinking about was an ANHC event, which would be AUS ...
 
Grant, when I dry hopped beers at Southern Tier, we would get no pick up of oxygen at all
 
We used our gehaltemeter AFTER filter and transfer and carbonation, and if we read higher than 50 ppb's, thats B for billion, not millon, then there was a problem somewhere and we had to fix it. If we read higher than 250ppbs, it would be drain poured, so I hope to god that Pliny and Alchemist are at under 1 ppm
 
and you will never have a completely zero dissolved oxygen reading ever, its just not possible
 
tctenten said:
Disney....we own timeshare there and usually make it down every year or every other year.  
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Not too far ... like 90-100 mins away ... but that stretch of I4 sucks!
 
It can turn into 2+ hours at any minute =)
 
You are welcome to visit, LOL ...
wheebz said:
Grant, when I dry hopped beers at Southern Tier, we would get no pick up of oxygen at all
 
We used our gehaltemeter AFTER filter and transfer and carbonation, and if we read higher than 50 ppb's, thats B for billion, not millon, then there was a problem somewhere and we had to fix it. If we read higher than 250ppbs, it would be drain poured, so I hope to god that Pliny and Alchemist are at under 1 ppm
 
and you will never have a completely zero dissolved oxygen reading ever, its just not possible
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I updated it to read ppb ... it's 1 ppb ...
 
"John Kimmich has focused a lot of time and energy towards making sure that the dissolved oxygen (DO) of his beers is minimized. While it may not be the only reason his beer Heady Topper is ranked the #1 beer in the world by users on BeerAdvocate.com, it certainly helps."
 
"He recounted a story when a quality assurance person from his canning company came to test his beers one day. The tester needed to run back to his car since he thought his dissolved oxygen (DO) meter was broken. He had measured 1 part per billion (ppb) DO in The Alchemist's brite tank (a vessel that is somewhat akin to a homebrewer's bottling bucket). He had never seen numbers that low."
 
Now back to tctenten and my casual AUS brewer friend Bumper =) ...
 
"Hop cannons will shoot the pellets into the fermenter via CO2 (see photo, page 88). The hop torpedo is an inline recirculation system that passes the finished beer through the dry hops before returning the beer back to the fermenter. Peter Wolfe and Thomas Shellhammer both agreed that these devices were overkill on the homebrew scale."
 
"Homebrewers can get away with eliminating most oxygen from the dry hop process for less. Thomas Shellhammer's advice, especially with whole cone hops is, ". . .to ensure the hops are free of residual oxygen before adding to the beer. Do this by vacuum packing them first; better yet, vacuum pack then gas flush them with nitrogen or carbon dioxide."
 
Notice that while they don't figure homebrewer's need a hop cannon or torpedo, they still expect homebrewer's to vac + flush ... not just punt and say fuck it ...
 
Allow me to continue quoting, though ...
 
"Another approach is to submerge the hops in cold sterile water, then transfer the whole lot to the beer." Ashton Lewis adds that working with de-aerated water is a huge benefit if you can get it. Boiling the water will help de-aerate but won't remove all residual O2. Peter Wolfe's suggested approach is slightly different. "I like to rack my beer onto the dry hops when there are still a few gravity points left to go until terminal gravity is reached," he said. The active yeast will help absorb some of the oxygen uptake that has occurred during transfer."
 
"And finally for those homebrewers who try to emulate the recirculation methods utilized by pro-brewers, Vinnie Cilurzo adds that you have to make sure you are not introducing any oxygen into the system. If you can have your beer read 1 ppb DO after racking and adding dry hops, you've mastered this enemy."
 
So ... I mean ...
So Leo ...

5edb0767849d62f1cc4527847dba1ac2.jpg
 
Well then i stand corrected, I have personally never seen 1ppb of DO ever in any actual practical applications. In theory yes, that is the ideal number, but I have never seen it nor ever heard it directly from a source that could prove it to me.
 
And they use a hop cannon at troegs as well, but I started hopping before terminal gravity as well after I attended last years Craft Brewers Conference, as it gives it some cool flavors and properties you cant get post primary
 
Clearly there are different methods and opinions to do this.  Since it is Bumpers recipe I am going to dump the hops into the primary tomorrow night.  It should still have some fermenting time left.  I am going to then let it sit for a few days after fermentation before I cold crash it.  I will let it crash for about a week then bottle.  I am also going to do this all in the primary fermenters.  I will only have one transfer into my bottling bucket. 
 
Couple of things to consider is my schedule.  I need to do this around my work, family, holiday and vacation schedule.  :violin:  :violin: I know...but it is what it is.  
 
wheebz said:
Well then i stand corrected, I have personally never seen 1ppb of DO ever in any actual practical applications. In theory yes, that is the ideal number, but I have never seen it nor ever heard it directly from a source that could prove it to me.
 
And they use a hop cannon at troegs as well, but I started hopping before terminal gravity as well after I attended last years Craft Brewers Conference, as it gives it some cool flavors and properties you cant get post primary
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Yeah, that was directed at tctenten and Bumper ...
 
I just don't want to have everybody cheering over their pruno around here ...
 
If you're dry-hopped homebrewed IPA isn't *BETTER* than the commercial one's - you've failed ... which sounds harsh, but it's true, you've failed to capitalize on the reality that yours can be BETTER than theirs for not having to bottle, warehouse etc, and being able to drink it fresh ...
 
I know I'm going to the one extreme, and like, Rairdog is kind of showing the other side of it ... I actually have a ton of respect for what he's doing (maximizing resources as a priority, and trying like hell to keep his process simple), so much in fact, that I'm going outside to a big kettle/burner/cooler and trying to get off all the pumps and shit for my brewing ...
 
But ... post-boil ... I'm keeping the careful controls ... temp control, reducing oxidative risks, etc ... hitting your numbers and practicing the techniques you've been generous enough to share ...
tctenten said:
Clearly there are different methods and opinions to do this.  Since it is Bumpers recipe I am going to dump the hops into the primary tomorrow night.  It should still have some fermenting time left.  I am going to then let it sit for a few days after fermentation before I cold crash it.  I will let it crash for about a week then bottle.  I am also going to do this all in the primary fermenters.  I will only have one transfer into my bottling bucket. 
 
Couple of things to consider is my schedule.  I need to do this around my work, family, holiday and vacation schedule.  :violin:  :violin: I know...but it is what it is.  
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All I'm saying is you want to follow Wheebz practices for beer in exactly the same way you'd follow PIC1's for dough ...
 
I maintain that dry-hopping might be a little better suited for people kegging who can flush w/ CO2 ...
 
You can dry-hop in the bottle hombre =)
 
tim-and-eric-mind-blown.gif

 
Six pellets before you cap it, invert it to mix, and then let it sit upright to carbonate ... decant through a strainer into glass ...
tctenten said:
Couple of things to consider is my schedule.  I need to do this around my work, family, holiday and vacation schedule.  :violin:  :violin: I know...but it is what it is.  
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https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3187-advanced-dry-hopping-techniques
 
There ya go, I found it for ya'll ...
 
I had sent myself emails w/ the quotes above, but here's a really good article w/ the science up top ...
 
grantmichaels said:
 
Yeah, that was directed at tctenten and Bumper ...
 
I just don't want to have everybody cheering over their pruno around here ...
 
If you're dry-hopped homebrewed IPA isn't *BETTER* than the commercial one's - you've failed ... which sounds harsh, but it's true, you've failed to capitalize on the reality that yours can be BETTER than theirs for not having to bottle, warehouse etc, and being able to drink it fresh ...
 
I know I'm going to the one extreme, and like, Rairdog is kind of showing the other side of it ... I actually have a ton of respect for what he's doing (maximizing resources as a priority, and trying like hell to keep his process simple), so much in fact, that I'm going outside to a big kettle/burner/cooler and trying to get off all the pumps and shit for my brewing ...
 
But ... post-boil ... I'm keeping the careful controls ... temp control, reducing oxidative risks, etc ... hitting your numbers and practicing the techniques you've been generous enough to share ...

 
All I'm saying is you want to follow Wheebz practices for beer in exactly the same way you'd follow PIC1's for dough ...
 
I maintain that dry-hopping might be a little better suited for people kegging who can flush w/ CO2 ...
 
You can dry-hop in the bottle hombre =)
 
tim-and-eric-mind-blown.gif

 
Six pellets before you cap it, invert it to mix, and then let it sit upright to carbonate ... decant through a strainer into glass ...

 
https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3187-advanced-dry-hopping-techniques
 
There ya go, I found it for ya'll ...
 
I had sent myself emails w/ the quotes above, but here's a really good article w/ the science up top ...
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Some very good points.  I f**king hate science...but have come to realize that it plays an important role in things I like.  So after reading that, to minimize the O2, I should rack into a secondary fermenter that has the hop pellets already in it while it is still fermenting.  Then as per that article and Wheebz and Bumper let it stay at room temp until fermentation is done and another couple of days before it gets cold crashed.  I feel like a Ping-Pong ball going back and forth.
 
This has been a fairly productive day so far at work....between the pizza links and the beer links...I am learning.  
 
tctenten said:
 
 
Some very good points.  I f**king hate science...but have come to realize that it plays an important role in things I like.  So after reading that, to minimize the O2, I should rack into a secondary fermenter that has the hop pellets already in it while it is still fermenting.  Then as per that article and Wheebz and Bumper let it stay at room temp until fermentation is done and another couple of days before it gets cold crashed.  I feel like a Ping-Pong ball going back and forth.
 
This has been a fairly productive day so far at work....between the pizza links and the beer links...I am learning.  
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I'm sure that's fine enough ...
 
I mean, I can buy dry ice at my grocery store for dirt cheap ...
 
Grant, I know you are trying to get me to make the best possible beer....
Bumper is trying to make it as easy for me so I don't screw it up, yet make the best possible beer
 
 
and Wheebz
 
Is probably regretting ever opening this thread
 
 
I really do appreciate all the time you guys have taken to help me brew the best beer I can.
 
tctenten said:
Grant, I know you are trying to get me to make the best possible beer....
Bumper is trying to make it as easy for me so I don't screw it up, yet make the best possible beer
 
 
and Wheebz
 
Is probably regretting ever opening this thread
 
 
I really do appreciate all the time you guys have taken to help me brew the best beer I can.
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We're in your thread =)
 
wheebz said:
I blame all of you for my headaches
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I'm pretty sure we're running short on time for ASK'ing WHEEBZ, as I fully expect you are about to be assimilated ...
 
RM's not going to be as involved for the time being ...
 
HTH comes around only to share his medals ...
 
I'm worried about being the only one carrying the torch ...
wheebz said:
Just grant actually, because he had the opportunity to come out and booze it up with me last weekend and he bitched out
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Dude! ... zero notice ... "Hi I'm here, you can come see me tonight between these 2-3 hours in the next town over" ...
 
Haha ... do you realize my nephew is about to have his second birthday and I haven't even been able to head out to see him yet because of work? =( ...
 
I'm tethered to this fucking computer when the shop's operational, I'm afraid ...
 
I poked around on FB to see if I could figure out how long you'd be around, and got the wrong impression, is all ...
 
I honestly thought I'd run into you, or I'd have come out there ...

You'd posted on FB to someone else that you were going to be at The Shamrock on Sat night, and that's like 2 miles away ...
 
I figured you'd come here to pre-treat ... naw' mean ...
 
I was with my cousin and he is kind of awkward when meeting new people. He already knows a lot of the people at shamrock because of coming down to visit me when i lived there so it wasnt too bad for him.
 
wheebz said:
I was with my cousin and he is kind of awkward when meeting new people. He already knows a lot of the people at shamrock because of coming down to visit me when i lived there so it wasnt too bad for him.
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No worries ... I would have taken an Uber up to Darwin's if I thought it was going to be the only opportunity ...
 
I have a strict personal DUI-avoidance policy having used up all my stay-out-of-jail cards, but I could and would have Uber'd ...
 
Next time ...
On the plus side, now I can't avoid the BeerGun any longer ...
 
I'm planning to send out some Holiday Cheer over the Christmas weekend ... beats Chinese take-out ...
 
Hoping I can have my packages arrive for people's NYE's ...
 
wheebz said:
I blame all of you for my headaches
Just grant actually, because he had the opportunity to come out and booze it up with me last weekend and he bitched out
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I can take it....I live under the assumption that everything is my fault.  I am completely desensitized. 
 
tctenten said:
LOL....I would like that over and over again.  
 
She especially likes it when I just walk away when she is trying to talk to me.....
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Haha ...
 
Actually, that was the best part of it ...
 
I her that I got a text from Wheebz that he was in town and she leaped into cleaning the whole damn house ...
 
So I hung out and drank BC's in an immaculate house all weekend ...
 
LOL.
 
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