Carolina Reaper (HP22B) Community Grow

mmcdermott1 · Jul 25, 2013

Perhaps but I did this all on my own. Wasnt asked to do it from Ed and quite frankly he didnt even know I was gonna do it. I just got to a point that it seemed the past few days its been nothing but negativity about the pepper and it was getting old so I thought I would share my thoughts. I am a huge grower of these peppers so figured I would be a good candidate to show results based on a far bigger array of plants then someone who got 10 seeds and maybe the wrong seeds. Im a statistics person and 2200 gives a far better outcome of results then a few random peppers by random people.

thank you

nitwit · Jul 25, 2013

if some people would try to

put half of the amount of their negative efforts

into anything positive; they might soon lose sight of that negative BS

and only allow time (or have time for) for the positive

peppers are groovy and more variety is more groovier

Pr0digal_son · Jul 25, 2013

Not sure if you saw my edit on previous post. Can you give me your thoughts. I am not saying it is a primo,just curious.

semillas · Jul 25, 2013

mmcdermott1 said:
Did I say I didnt know Ed? I guess you should rewatch. Joe was limited also and BOTH guys new I am a commercial grower and BOTH guys offered me the opportunity to buy bulk. ------

So why can you rule out, as you did before, that you got your seeds from a different (better) lot?

I think you should accept that a number of persons here and me included have other results as you propably have.

I asked for 1000 seeds, but they told me that I could only get the limited amount.
So I grew what I got.
I had 19 large plants in full production and I have 20 smaller plants.
I have eliminated 8 plants today, because they didn´t have the characteristics, so what´s the truth?
Is it just bad luck?

mmcdermott1 · Jul 25, 2013

Sure. To start..ive grown primo for years but they always seem to vary so this year I bought seeds directly from Troy so I know they are the right seeds. The primo, at least from the hundreds I have, are noticably smaller than the reapers. I can also say that after eating multiples of both, they taste different. I can also tell you that the burn from a reaper is completely and utterly different than that of a primo. I am going to get random pics of both sometime shortly to show. It is really hard in a picture to get actual perspective but I will try.

Ed also has primo seeds given to him by others that are directly from Troy. He is having them tested to prove a reaper and a primo are NOT the same DNA. I have no clue what Troy created the primo with so I can't speak about the genetics absolutely but I can give an honest opinion that they are not the same pepper.

JDFan · Jul 25, 2013

mmcdermott1 said:
Well i guess to start, anyone that knows Jen and I knows we are truthful, I guess you don't know us. Second, as I stated in video, if reapers weren't "reapers" why would I support it and take the time to make the video? I have nothing to gain and nothing to lose as I am not looking for customers to buy my pods/seeds/plants because I am not selling them to the general public.

But to satisfy nay sayers as yourself, I will do one more video showing them. The ones that are not conforming to what people consider a reaper to "look" like, they are naga shaped. I believe 1 was smooth, the rest looked like a very cool and bumpy naga.

You're right I don't know you and what I said wasn't meant to imply any dishonesty on your part but just to point out that it would be helpful to actually see some of the pods on the plants to judge for ourselves rather than just a shot of pepper plants in a field that could be any variety. And as far as not having anything to gain or lose this year if you are growing 2200+\- plants for someone then you do have some stake in the game - figure there is always the contract to grow for the next season that may\may not be renewed so there is at minimum some financial interest and to say otherwise is a bit suspect. (again I don't know you - but trying to say you have no incentive at all when investing the time and energy to grow 2200+ plants would at minimum suggest some stake in the game) If you have the time to make another video of the pods directly I know I'd like to see it and appreciate that you would take the time.

One thing that is a bit troubling as you mention your crop is going to ed is - will he be using them for seeds next year or is he planning on using them as you mention you use them for sauces etc. where the open pollination isn't an issue ? ( is there anything in the grow contract that would specify what the crop is being used for ) If they are being shipped to ED and he plans to use them for seed stock then that could become an issue for next seasons crops and also could explain some of the variations that others are seeing now if the same was done last year to get enough seed stock for the release of the product. (as I'm sure you would agree ) I find it a bit hard to believe that he was able to grow enough plants in isolation to get all of the seeds he sold this year and depending on when ordered there may be a difference in whether the seeds were from isolated plants or not if he found himself with a shortage of properly isolated stock. (or as you mention it could well be some other reason for the variances being reported)

mmcdermott1 · Jul 25, 2013

semillas said:
So why can you rule out, as you did before, that you got your seeds from a different (better) lot?

I think you should accept that a number of persons here and me included have other results as you propably have.

I asked for 1000 seeds, but they told me that I could only get the limited amount.
So I grew what I got.
I had 19 large plants in full production and I have 20 smaller plants.
I have eliminated 8 plants today, because they didn´t have the characteristics, so what´s the truth?
Is it just bad luck?

Did I say I know where the lot came from? Show me where I said that. I said I got them just like any other person would have. I simply got a baggie full of seeds. No special packaging or anything else. What I do know is that there was no special hand selection for me. Why would there have been? I was just another commercial grower to Ed.

In terms of your seeds, again, how am I supposed to know? Perhaps you got mixed seeds? Perhaps it's simply a matter of a different pheno coming out with a few of yours. Are you seriously going to say this NEVER happens with other species? Other than they typical cayenne, serrano, habs and jalepeno that have been around for hundreds and thousands of years, most if not all species do this. Are we going to start a hate lobby against CPI and the Bhut jolokia? I can show you pics of this years plants from seed directly from CPI that look like habanero. they look NOTHING like a bhut jolokia. why? I have no clue why. Maybe they deal with so many seeds they got mixed? Maybe it's because none of the supers including the bhut are actually fully stable yet? Your guess is as good as mine man. But as I keep stating..and nobody really seems to address it, there were HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of these seeds sold...and ive heard of less than 50 plants or seen pictures of less than 50 plants of the wrong thing. Thats pretty damn good statistics by any measure don't you think? I have 2200. 36 are wrong. Perhaps 1 person got 10 seeds and 8 are wrong. Why? I dunno, perhaps one of the reasons i mentioned above. And if all my seeds were the same lot and "hand picked" why would ANY of them be wrong? Doesnt make much sense if that were the case huh?

roper2008 · Jul 25, 2013

nitwit said:
if some people would try to

put half of the amount of their negative efforts

into anything positive; they might soon lose sight of that negative BS

and only allow time (or have time for) for the positive

peppers are groovy and more variety is more groovier

Sometimes the negative has to be put out there.. If someone has a positive opinion like Mike, that's fine. I respect what he has to say. A lot of
THP'ers are not happy getting bhut or habanero looking reapers. Some only have space for a few plants...Obviously the negative outweighs the
positive, but that's our experience so far growing these peppers..This is not pepper la, la, land.

mmcdermott1 · Jul 25, 2013

JDFan said:
You're right I don't know you and what I said wasn't meant to imply any dishonesty on your part but just to point out that it would be helpful to actually see some of the pods on the plants to judge for ourselves rather than just a shot of pepper plants in a field that could be any variety. And as far as not having anything to gain or lose this year if you are growing 2200+\- plants for someone then you do have some stake in the game - figure there is always the contract to grow for the next season that may\may not be renewed so there is at minimum some financial interest and to say otherwise is a bit suspect. (again I don't know you - but trying to say you have no incentive at all when investing the time and energy to grow 2200+ plants would at minimum suggest some stake in the game) If you have the time to make another video of the pods directly I know I'd like to see it and appreciate that you would take the time.

One thing that is a bit troubling as you mention your crop is going to ed is - will he be using them for seeds next year or is he planning on using them as you mention you use them for sauces etc. where the open pollination isn't an issue ? ( is there anything in the grow contract that would specify what the crop is being used for ) If they are being shipped to ED and he plans to use them for seed stock then that could become an issue for next seasons crops and also could explain some of the variations that others are seeing now if the same was done last year to get enough seed stock for the release of the product. (as I'm sure you would agree ) I find it a bit hard to believe that he was able to grow enough plants in isolation to get all of the seeds he sold this year and depending on when ordered there may be a difference in whether the seeds were from isolated plants or not if he found himself with a shortage of properly isolated stock. (or as you mention it could well be some other reason for the variances being reported)

As I said on a youtube post, Ed Currie will not make me or break me. Regardless of ANY renewed contract with ed, we are looking at another 40 acres of land in the next year or possibly the following year and that is assuming NO CONTRACT with Ed currie. I am selling to him this season and it expires in March of 2014 (way before the 2014 season). If he renews with me fantastic. If he chooses not to, that is ok and we will still be friends. I have deals with other sauce makers and other type companies and that list continues to grow (and no not boasting just explaining my answer to your question). Jen and I are in this because we LOVE growing peppers. As I told Chris Phillips today, there is nothing quite like walking through the fields and seeing all these awesome colors knowing we grew all these from seed. It is a very rewarding feeling of accomplishment. Do I hope to make a living at this some day? Absolutely! But money will NEVER come before our simple love of doing this. We simply love growing peppers!

In terms of pics, I did post some above off 3 random plants and I will also be doing 1 final video of random plants and showing a live look at these random plants so everyone can see that the field I showed is in fact reapers and they do in fact conform. I will also show the 36 plants that didnt conform because they are pretty cool regardless (other than 1.its kinda ugly). Hope that answers your questions.

have a good day

roper2008 said:
Sometimes the negative has to be put out there.. If someone has a positive opinion like Mike, that's fine. I respect what he has to say. A lot of
THP'ers are not happy getting bhut or habanero looking reapers. Some only have space for a few plants...Obviously the negative outweighs the
positive, but that's our experience so far growing these peppers..This is not pepper la, la, land.

And I FULLY agree. However, the best quality control on earth isnt going to catch every single last mistake. Jen and I literally pick every single pepper we have by hand. Once in a while we will get help from the kids. When we deseed, we take every precaution possible. But I will openly and honestly tell you that even though we have never had one single complaint about something being wrong, I KNOW it has probably happened. We deal with hundreds of thousands of seeds every year. A seed popping into another seed or an accidental mis labeled package of seeds...many things can happen even when you try REALLY hard to avoid it. Is this an excuse? No way. Should this be ok and understood by customer? No! But it is a reality.

Now in terms of the reaper, I agree, if you buy a reaper, you want a reaper. If you buy a moruga you want a moruga. But I assure you the reaper is not the first time someone grew something that wasnt right and I also assure you it wont be the last time. It doesnt make the reaper or any other pepper "unstable"...it just means some human probably made a mistake or in some cases a different pheno is simply coming out.

PepperRich · Jul 25, 2013

Isn't farm produce (under contract) sold at the time of harvest based on fair market value. If demand goes down then wouldn't market value go down? Just a thought.

semillas · Jul 25, 2013

Pr0digal_son said:
*edit* I am interested in how you can differentiate a primo pod from a reaper pod. I have been taking pictures of both and going over and over them. I see variations in both but in general they look exactly alike. I have also been studying the plant and very similar leaves and purpling nodes/branches.

I have the same problem that you have.

Pods collected just an hour ago.
one picture Carolina Reaper seeds from Ed
one picture Primo seeds from Primo

Can anyone tell me what is what, without looking into the source code of the page?

mmcdermott1 · Jul 25, 2013

PepperRich said:
Isn't farm produce (under contract) sold at the time of harvest based on fair market value. If demand goes down then wouldn't market value go down? Just a thought.

Well perhaps that's how you sell but we don't. We have locked prices with ALL our wholesale customers, not just Ed.

semillas said:
I have the same problem that you have.

Pods collected just an hour ago.
one picture Carolina Reaper seeds from Ed
one picture Primo seeds from Primo

Can anyone tell me what is what, without looking into the source code of the page?

Can u distinguish a Brainstrain from a moruga?
How about the vast variety of cayenne?
7 pot brown and douglah?

I can give you a whole host of varieties that on the surface look exactly the sane. So what's your point?
And by the way, I notice you said you tried to buy 1000 seeds and were told NO. Is this perhaps your reason for being so hateful towards this pepper? You throw a lot of accusations at me. Perhaps people should be questions you. You had stake also (you sell seeds and wanted bulk reapers) and were turned away. So what are your motives?

PepperRich · Jul 25, 2013

The difference is that the Smokin' Ed's Carolina Reapers® are protected or are they :party:

mmcdermott1 · Jul 25, 2013

Well PR since according to you on Facebook you've already talked to his lawyers yes? I have no clue how far the trademark goes. I'm not eds lawyer. So since you've already asked this question and you've already gotten the answer to my knowledge, what is your point? Apparently since you've added no value to this conversation with your comment one can only assume you've just moved venues of where you like to start trouble?

SanPatricio · Jul 25, 2013

DesertChris said:
I just noticed his name in the viewer list at the bottom of the page, a few minutes ago.......but apparenty he didn't leave a comment

I have about 9 plants, all growing very slowly.....someday I'll have pods to post....someday....

Just curious....

So you can trademark a name....ok...no problem.

But to patent the variety, doesn't it have to be stable????
I thought i read that the plant patent authorities have to grow out a couple generations to verify stability and uniqueness....
Seems like that isn't even possible for this pepper right now....

DesertChris said:
So how can they stop folks from selling pods, seed, sauces etc?
Is it just because of the name?
If so then it would be easy to just call it something else.... like "unstable grim reaper tricked me out of money, but still hot as hell peppers"

I just looked at the Puckerbutt web page and found this ( I wonder how many customers and Reaper growers read this?)

http://puckerbuttpeppercompany.com/terms-and-conditions/http://puckerbuttpeppercompany.com/terms-and-conditions/

"[SIZE=13pt]B. Seed Purchases[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13pt]Seeds purchased through PBPC, LLC, or its affiliates, along with plants and peppers grown therefrom, shall be used for personal and non-commercial purposes only. Any reproduction or redistribution of seeds or plants therefrom, or commercial use of peppers grown from these seeds, or derivatives thereof, is prohibited without the express written consent of PBPC, LLC, or its affiliates. In so purchasing seeds through PBPC, LLC, or its affiliates, you expressly agree to these terms and conditions of sale."[/SIZE]

Mr. Hill · Jul 25, 2013

Lets face it both are from a cross both are very hot, I viewed my thoughts about the Reaper, and Primo genetics but it's only my thoughts as to what I have seen mostly on THP. Not saying one is better or anything. I may grow Reaper and Premo seeds I got next year I might not but shape, size, or color isn't a matter to me as long as I like them they could be pink with green spots for all I care.

From all I can find there both from a Nuga so there going to look alike as it's in there genes.

I think a lot of the bad feelings over the Reapers, I might be wrong is the fact that Ed says no one but him or people he ok's can make money off the Reapers, and I can understand that.

mmcdermott1 · Jul 25, 2013

Mr. Hill said:
Lets face it both are from a cross both are very hot, I viewed my thoughts about the Reaper, and Primo genetics but it's only my thoughts as to what I have seen mostly on THP. Not saying one is better or anything. I may grow Reaper and Premo seeds I got next year I might not but shape, size, or color isn't a matter to me as long as I like them they could be pink with green spots for all I care.

From all I can find there both from a Nuga so there going to look alike as it's in there genes.

I think a lot of the bad feelings over the Reapers, I might be wrong is the fact that Ed says no one but him or people he ok's can make money off the Reapers, and I can understand that.

Perhaps your right but tht has nothing to do with stability of it. I'm with you though. Both are wry cool peppers.

semillas · Jul 25, 2013

mmcdermott1 said:
Can u distinguish a Brainstrain from a moruga?
How about the vast variety of cayenne?
7 pot brown and douglah?

I can give you a whole host of varieties that on the surface look exactly the sane. So what's your point?
And by the way, I notice you said you tried to buy 1000 seeds and were told NO. Is this perhaps your reason for being so hateful towards this pepper? You throw a lot of accusations at me. Perhaps people should be questions you. You had stake also (you sell seeds and wanted bulk reapers) and were turned away. So what are your motives?

Please don´t defend a business that´s not yours.
If Ed is a man, he should stand here and answer the questions.
If you earned a lot of money with a product and there are arising some issues, it´s your dammed job to to reply and to try to find solutions.
That´s how I organize my business!
There is no hate - I´m just reporting my findings, that are not the same that you have, nothing else.
Now after all that problems, I´m happy that I didn´t get the seeds, because I would have a lot of trouble with my customers

To answer your questions, yes, I can!
This needs many many years of experience, more than you´re of age!
I´ve been growing Bhuts from the beginning on (had the name Bih jolokia, before the CPI renamed it to Bhut jolokia) and I was one of the first growers who got a lot of Chocolate Bhut directly from Assam
I´ve never seen such variation in the Bhut group.
But when the plants are grown under open pollination, as the CPI does, what do you aspect?
If you want, I can send you 1000 Bhut jolokia at 0.00$ and next season you report the results.

PepperRich · Jul 25, 2013

SanPatricio said:
I just looked at the Puckerbutt web page and found this ( I wonder how many customers and Reaper growers read this?)

http://puckerbuttpeppercompany.com/terms-and-conditions/http://puckerbuttpeppercompany.com/terms-and-conditions/

"[SIZE=13pt]B. Seed Purchases[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13pt]Seeds purchased through PBPC, LLC, or its affiliates, along with plants and peppers grown therefrom, shall be used for personal and non-commercial purposes only. Any reproduction or redistribution of seeds or plants therefrom, or commercial use of peppers grown from these seeds, or derivatives thereof, is prohibited without the express written consent of PBPC, LLC, or its affiliates. In so purchasing seeds through PBPC, LLC, or its affiliates, you expressly agree to these terms and conditions of sale."[/SIZE]

An agrement of this type is not binding without the acknowledgement of both parties. You just can't make a statement on an obscure web page and expect it to be binding on others.

DesertChris · Jul 25, 2013

SanPatricio said:
I just looked at the Puckerbutt web page and found this ( I wonder how many customers and Reaper growers read this?)

http://puckerbuttpeppercompany.com/terms-and-conditions/http://puckerbuttpeppercompany.com/terms-and-conditions/

"[SIZE=13pt]B. Seed Purchases[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13pt]Seeds purchased through PBPC, LLC, or its affiliates, along with plants and peppers grown therefrom, shall be used for personal and non-commercial purposes only. Any reproduction or redistribution of seeds or plants therefrom, or commercial use of peppers grown from these seeds, or derivatives thereof, is prohibited without the express written consent of PBPC, LLC, or its affiliates. In so purchasing seeds through PBPC, LLC, or its affiliates, you expressly agree to these terms and conditions of sale."[/SIZE]

Interesting...but I got my seeds from pepperjoe, and I just looked at his site and found no such restriction...
So now my question Is can one guy impose this restriction via his website onto sales from an approved vendor who has no such restriction on his website???