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tutorial Fermenting Peppers 101

I find it interesting that this most recent discussion began with a question about one if blending and cooking a sauce was a "lazy" approach.
I have always felt that fermenting a "mash" is by far the least labor intensive of the two approaches, when compared to the time and steps involved in cooking,blending,pressure canning a so called fresh puree/sauce.
CM

I suppose I fall into the "Lacto never go Bacto" category.
There is no doubt that lacto fermentation imparts a distinctive “taste” and “flavor” that one tends to either like or dislike. There is generally no middle ground in this regard.
 
Personally, I believe this is possibly influenced by 1.) the unique smell of a lacto fermented vegetable, and 2.) the distinctive sour and sometimes bitter taste that shows up in a completed ferment.
(Note: the bitterness can be induced, or caused, by the temperature maintained during the initial/first stage of the fermentation.)
 
Taste (sweet, sour, salty, bitter, savory) preferences have a strong innate component. Sweet, savory, and salty substances are innately preferred, whereas bitter and many sour substances are innately rejected.
 
The terms “taste” and “flavor” often are confused. Taste is determined by the gustatory system, located in the mouth. Flavor is determined by taste, smell and chemosensory irritation (detected by receptors in the skin throughout the head; and in particularly in regards to food receptors in the mouth and nose. Examples include the burn of hot peppers and the cooling effect of menthol).
 
Ref: https://www.boundless.com/psychology/textbooks/boundless-psychology-textbook/sensation-and-perception-5/sensory-processes-38/gustation-taste-buds-and-taste-163-12698/
 
This explains further why some of us totally enjoy hot and spicy “flavors”, while others, like my brother don’t even want to touch a bottle of hot sauce, let alone consume any.
 
And from the Louisiana Pepper Exchange website:
 
http://lapepperexchange.com/shopsite/index.html
 
Pepper Mash \'pe-per mash\ (Noun) Hot Pepper Mash is mashed or ground up hot peppers, which are then fermented both to preserve them and to add flavor.  Sauce makers use pepper mash as a base ingredient for hot sauce and many other food products.
[SIZE=medium]Types of Mash[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]We offer two types of Pepper Mash: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Cooked[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Our "Ready To Eat" product is sold in 16 oz. jars or in case quantities with cases holding twelve 16 oz. jars.  This wonderful aromatic and flavor packed mash is fully cooked and enhanced with special vinegars and salts. Our customers and friends use this cooked mash to enhance recipes while cooking or by applying directly to cooked dishes including pastas, eggs, steak, chicken, fish, soups, and so much more![/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Unprocessed[/SIZE]
 [SIZE=medium]We offer raw, finely chopped peppers (mash) in bulk shipments in 1 gallon jugs, 5 gallon pails, 55 gallon drums, and even 6,000 gallon flexi tanks shipped in 20' cargo containers.  The raw mash is used as an ingredient and is ideal for making hot sauces, barbeque sauces, wing sauces, salsa, tomato sauces, and many other food products that will undergo further processing and cooking.  (MUST BE FURTHER PROCESSED BEFORE CONSUMPTION)[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=x-large]WARNING: This product has not been pasteurized or cooked and therefore may contain harmful bacteria that can cause serious illness.  This risk is heightened in children, the elderly, and persons with weakened immune systems.[/SIZE]
 
I sit corrected~  ~ :) ~
 
Chili Monsta said:
I find it interesting that this most recent discussion began with a question about one if blending and cooking a sauce was a "lazy" approach.
I have always felt that fermenting a "mash" is by far the least labor intensive of the two approaches, when compared to the time and steps involved in cooking,blending,pressure canning a so called fresh puree/sauce.
CM

I suppose I fall into the "Lacto never go Bacto" category.
There is no doubt that lacto fermentation imparts a distinctive “taste” and “flavor” that one tends to either like or dislike. There is generally no middle ground in this regard.
 
Personally, I believe this is possibly influenced by 1.) the unique smell of a lacto fermented vegetable, and 2.) the distinctive sour and sometimes bitter taste that shows up in a completed ferment.
(Note: the bitterness can be induced, or caused, by the temperature maintained during the initial/first stage of the fermentation.)
 
Taste (sweet, sour, salty, bitter, savory) preferences have a strong innate component. Sweet, savory, and salty substances are innately preferred, whereas bitter and many sour substances are innately rejected.
 
The terms “taste” and “flavor” often are confused. Taste is determined by the gustatory system, located in the mouth. Flavor is determined by taste, smell and chemosensory irritation (detected by receptors in the skin throughout the head; and in particularly in regards to food receptors in the mouth and nose. Examples include the burn of hot peppers and the cooling effect of menthol).
 
Ref: https://www.boundless.com/psychology/textbooks/boundless-psychology-textbook/sensation-and-perception-5/sensory-processes-38/gustation-taste-buds-and-taste-163-12698/
 
This explains further why some of us totally enjoy hot and spicy “flavors”, while others, like my brother don’t even want to touch a bottle of hot sauce, let alone consume any.
 
And from the Louisiana Pepper Exchange website:
 
http://lapepperexchange.com/shopsite/index.html
 
Pepper Mash \'pe-per mash\ (Noun) Hot Pepper Mash is mashed or ground up hot peppers, which are then fermented both to preserve them and to add flavor.  Sauce makers use pepper mash as a base ingredient for hot sauce and many other food products.
[SIZE=medium]Types of Mash[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]We offer two types of Pepper Mash: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Cooked[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Our "Ready To Eat" product is sold in 16 oz. jars or in case quantities with cases holding twelve 16 oz. jars.  This wonderful aromatic and flavor packed mash is fully cooked and enhanced with special vinegars and salts. Our customers and friends use this cooked mash to enhance recipes while cooking or by applying directly to cooked dishes including pastas, eggs, steak, chicken, fish, soups, and so much more![/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Unprocessed[/SIZE]
 [SIZE=medium]We offer raw, finely chopped peppers (mash) in bulk shipments in 1 gallon jugs, 5 gallon pails, 55 gallon drums, and even 6,000 gallon flexi tanks shipped in 20' cargo containers.  The raw mash is used as an ingredient and is ideal for making hot sauces, barbeque sauces, wing sauces, salsa, tomato sauces, and many other food products that will undergo further processing and cooking.  (MUST BE FURTHER PROCESSED BEFORE CONSUMPTION)[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=x-large]WARNING: This product has not been pasteurized or cooked and therefore may contain harmful bacteria that can cause serious illness.  This risk is heightened in children, the elderly, and persons with weakened immune systems.[/SIZE]
 
Yes but that site also carries unfermented "mash" that uses vinegar. And calls it mash.
 
salsalady said:
I sit corrected~  ~ :) ~
I'm not so sure SalsaLady....(sitting or standing)...that you are necessarily "corrected".
 
Actually, the reason I posted that LA Pepper exchange page, is because I think it appears to support your statement regarding how the term "mash" isn't only used to describe a fermented process....
 
Even though they place a definition for "mash" at the outset...I think it's still unclear.
So for my over priced $.02 opinion.... the cooked LPE mash product line might or might not be fermented with salt and vinegar added...
CM
 
one of my mashes is very active (bubbly)  but I just checked PH and its at about 5.5... Its been going for about 12 days....  should I be concerned?  
 
Hey O' Fermenting People (ha ha), I am reading now stuff about closed lids...I am doing my first ferment and I thought lids were a no no unless it's an air lock.  I have several jars going that are open and I'm using a slice of onion to keep stuff submerged.  Two plus weeks in and no sign of molds....
 
Jar One: Jalapenos...bubbling nicely as of two days ago...FINALLY!
Jar Two: Habaneros with a carrot stick mesh "lid" instead of onion slice....bubbled for a few days after I started it but now nothing...strange????  Smells great...better than great...and no mold no yeast...just some cloudy brine...not much more bubbles though
 
Neither jar is closed.  I have them open in my kitchen cupboard....the whole kitchen is smelling very nice at the moment.
 
Input welcome and appreciated!
 
I don't use airlocks and everything is fine. Make sure you leave some room at the top, 1/2" and don't tightly close the lid but just lightly close it air can be pushed out but it suck the lid close to keep air from coming back in.
 
Ok I think I'm almost done with ferments for the year, 3 more 64oz jars to process and its wait time :)  I made one vinegar based sauce using Bahamian Goats/Peach sauce which is the bright yellow bottled on the right.  Its really nice but its not a ferment and I can tell I prefer the ferments now.  I processed two of my MOA ferments, remaining bottles are on the left and it is tasty.  A few of these are about to go into the fridge since they should be ready to chill.  I also made 8 jars of MOA puree to disperse looters if the need should arise.

The 64oz and 1.6q jars got 450g of peppers except the red brainstrain which got 500g for some reason.  The 3rd and 4th from the left are smoked chocolate habs and smoked caramel 7 pot which I'm really looking forward to.  The caramel is at 30 days and has a really sweet smell.  I'm almost tempted to try it but I'm keeping my paws out of it for now.

In order from right to left is Primo, Primo, Smoked chocolate hab, Smoked caramel 7 pot, Bahamian goat, Primo, BB Douglah/Yellow Butch T/Yellow Fatalii, Cornish Naga, Bengal Naga, Naga Mix, Red/Yellow Brainstrain mix.  I hope I have a decent mix of ingredients to give me an idea of what I like for next year.  Sadly I can no longer get peaches so the 6 that I have are going into another batch of peach hab jam.


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20141106_2244561_zps8483660c.jpg



 
 
Really nice bunch of ferments Chris, really love all the great colors and mix of peppers. I like to look of the MOA sauce too, nice dark yellow kind of like a dark mustard yellow. Should be a good one. I'm waiting for my MOAs to take off and start getting some pods for me to play with :)
 
RM
 
Hey all, so my mash sat for 30 days with an airlock on our kitchen counter. Then I capped it and put it in the fridge. It's been about 30 days since (60 total). I'm thinking of now halving said mash and blending it with some fruit or veggies to under go another active fermentation. What do you think? Good idea?
 
filmost said:
Hey all, so my mash sat for 30 days with an airlock on our kitchen counter. Then I capped it and put it in the fridge. It's been about 30 days since (60 total). I'm thinking of now halving said mash and blending it with some fruit or veggies to under go another active fermentation. What do you think? Good idea?
 
I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night so Ill say it shouldn't be an issues.  I'd have to think that he LAB would just take off again like they do when I add a "starter" portion of an aged ferment to a new one. 
 
RocketMan said:
Really nice bunch of ferments Chris, really love all the great colors and mix of peppers. I like to look of the MOA sauce too, nice dark yellow kind of like a dark mustard yellow. Should be a good one. I'm waiting for my MOAs to take off and start getting some pods for me to play with :)
 
RM
Thanks RM, those MOAs weren't mine since I didn't grow them this year.  I bought a batch for seed, really enjoyed the taste and bought several more.  Now that we are into winter the bulk of my plants decided to start blooming like mad.  One of the Bhuts that hadn't put on a bloom all year is now loaded with pods and in/out of the garage. 

I just looked at my recipe, or lack thereof and noticed it was MOA and Daisy cutter which explains the up front heat that slowly fades.   I've started using blue painters tape and labeling the bottle with the entire recipe vs. writing it down on a piece of paper that gets put in the land of up.  This one had a piece of tape that read, MOA/Daisy Cutter 9/13 so its a top secret recipe and it tastes really good.  To me it seems like the 450g of peppers, when they are in the same general heat range, works for my mix.  I can fit just about 1700g of mash in to a 64oz jar so I know how much fruit and vegetables I can work with when I'm running it through the food processor.   Edited that 64q to 64oz since one is A LOT more than the other.

I'll post the entire recipes up if they work.  I pulled a little out of one of the naga jars to use as a starter last night and had a taste.  I was going to process this one, now I'm positive I could eat it just like it is.  Sadly I have 6 cases of woozy bottles, my intent was to bottle and give it away.  I may end up just splitting this into smaller jars and keeping it in the fridge :)
 
hot stuff said:
I don't use airlocks and everything is fine. Make sure you leave some room at the top, 1/2" and don't tightly close the lid but just lightly close it air can be pushed out but it suck the lid close to keep air from coming back in.
 
Yea I see what you guys mean about leaving some room at the top....which I didn't and now one jar is about to spew over the top...It's in a drip pan so guess that's okay?  Cool watching it bubble though!  
 
I can't remember how many I've had the leaked out around the cap. No big deal though as hot stuff said just clean it up and let continue making the good stuff.
 
Hey guys, I have my first mash fermenting now. I took habaneros split them into two jars, did one with water and salt (4%) and one with just salt (4%). I found some white mold and took it off. I have a question though, it smells a bit like Parmesan cheese, is this normal? Sorry if this question has been beat to death.
 
sirhc76 said:
 
I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night so Ill say it shouldn't be an issues.  I'd have to think that he LAB would just take off again like they do when I add a "starter" portion of an aged ferment to a new one. 
 
Cool, I figured the LAB would take off again. So uhm...how was the Holiday Inn? lol
 
On the leaks/overlows, I also learned the hard way and now this is what I have going on under mine.  Instead of tossing those microwave healthy choice meal tubs in the recycle bin I put them to work after a spin through the dishwasher.  I also started using the 4oz jars instead of a fancy weight since I had them.  Seems to keep the produce from plugging up your airlocks when it does try to float.
 
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