I want proof that it is the exact same elements... That has been the question the entire time. Prove that the fertilizers are the exact elements that microbes make, and also prove that the delivery. is the same. That is what you are claiming? back it up with some research and not some hydro site.
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soil Is MG soil worth it?
- Thread starter DatilDaddy
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Capsicum
Banned
No. It is what science is "claiming".
"Organic fertilizers, whether natural or synthetic, have nutrient elements such as nitrogen,
phosphorus or potassium attached to carbon. Because of the
covalent bonding that shares
electrons, the structures are quite stable. As the carbon structure is decomposed or
hydrolyzed over time, the nutrient elements are released as ions such as ammonium (NH4+),
which carry a positive or negative charge. It is in this form that nutrients are absorbed by
plants since plants have no mechanism to attract uncharged nutrient sources including
organic compounds."
http://www.newenglan...Fertilizers.pdf
Just ask any botanist. I don't need to prove science.
No they are not the same exact elements as one is petroleum based and the other is organic.
Yes the plant sees the NPK values equally but that is a very small portion of what is in the soil and is used by the plant.
Soil scientists are not even sure yet what is all in there and how it all works symbiotically but they do know about the symbiotic relationship of bacteria with the host plant and how it is superior for overall plant growth and health.
That was not copied and pasted from a site either.
Quit quoting shit Capsicum, it's getting tiresome.
Any of us can google an answer. I think you are OCD!
that's what I thought
you got squat.Davey Tree Expert Company
Organic taste better, is cheaper to grow, has more nutrients, and less chemicals... "Just ask any botanist" See i don't need proof either.
I am not allowed to post in this thread anymore... Please power up above, give me the strength to not post here anymore.
that's what I thought
Davey Tree Expert Company
Aw give him a break Andrew that's all he could find with a quick google search.
Capsicum
Banned
Quit quoting shit Capsicum, it's getting tiresome.
Any of us can google an answer. I think you are OCD!
Ok I will just quote something you wrote then.
Thanks for that good info.
I guess some people on here still fall for the hype.
Everything on the periodical chart is natural. Gases, metals, etc....
Organic is nothing more than a bunch of crap to get people to pay more for their stuff. Organic is hype.
If it costs less to make organic soil, why do organic carrots cost twice as much as regular carrots? HYPE!
Everything that people pay more for is usually because of hype. Nike shoes, The newest electronics, etc, etc, etc...
All metals come from the ground which means they are natural. All gases occur naturally except for petroleum products. Oxygen, helium, nitrogen, etc, etc, etc....all natural.
Potassium, Sodium, Calcium, etc, etc, etc....all natural.
If anybody wants to dispute that, then go ahead and make a fool out of yourself.
Bat or cow shit is supposed to taste better than crap that comes out of the ground naturally?
Everything on the periodical chart is natural. Gases, metals, etc....
Organic is nothing more than a bunch of crap to get people to pay more for their stuff. Organic is hype.
If it costs less to make organic soil, why do organic carrots cost twice as much as regular carrots? HYPE!
Everything that people pay more for is usually because of hype. Nike shoes, The newest electronics, etc, etc, etc...
All metals come from the ground which means they are natural. All gases occur naturally except for petroleum products. Oxygen, helium, nitrogen, etc, etc, etc....all natural.
Potassium, Sodium, Calcium, etc, etc, etc....all natural.
If anybody wants to dispute that, then go ahead and make a fool out of yourself.
Bat or cow shit is supposed to taste better than crap that comes out of the ground naturally?
I have no dog in this game, but this PhD may be a botanist, but he's definitely not a chemist. While Nitrogen will form covalent bonds with Carbon, I know that Potassium does not. Potassium forms a cation and when combined with an carbon-containing molecule it is usually in the form of a salt, in which the organic molecule is negatiely charged, such as a carboxyllic acid.
Ammonium, NH4+, indeed carries a positive charge, but never carries a negative charge.
The only compounds in which a phosphorus is covalently linked to a carbon are organophosphates, which are acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, such as insectices and nerve gas.
No offense, Capsicum, but this guy needs to retake Organic Chemistry. I don't think he passed.
Capsicum
Banned
I showed some random sources to try to prove a point that is already a scientific fact.....
This should make it clear.
This is the best source I can provide.
I guess the final answer or the bottom line to the question: Is MG soil worth it?
To some yes, to some no, to some it's a chance to show their pathetic "I care for the enviroment" BS propganda .
Don't get me wrong, I care very much for the environment but I'm not going to pick and choose what to attack just to pretend I care more than others do.
To some yes, to some no, to some it's a chance to show their pathetic "I care for the enviroment" BS propganda .
Don't get me wrong, I care very much for the environment but I'm not going to pick and choose what to attack just to pretend I care more than others do.
You're right, I jumped the gun. I've been mulling the things I have said over and realize that I am guilty of plenty of non environmentally safe things. I try the best I can and sometimes make exceptions for poor reasons. I just felt attacked on my first post and took a very defensive stand.
It wasn't my intention to point a finger at anyone. I do believe if we become informed that something is bad for the earth, we should do our best to find other means of acheiving what we want in a different matter. This isn't always possible as I do not have a horse to ride to work
although I might move to New York and become a park ranger to fix that...lol
I only want to be informative and I read all of your posts with an open mind. I don't have everything figured out. I try and take what everyone says, analyze it (to the best of my ability) and if something I don't know or understand pops up (or possibly say to myself...wait a minute that doesn't sound right) I research it the best I can. I try and come to the best conclusion I can.
Whether MG is bad for the earth or not, I'd just rather not use them due to Scott's Brand and their lack of moral practices. Which after I read the article about the falsified reports and pesticide laced bird seed...that was the end for me. Even if it meant not growing anything until I found an achievable alternative.
To be honest, I just want to live in a world That's not run rampant with greed and careless practices. I've been thinking about having kids and that has brought me to think about what kind of world I want them to grow up in and what role I can play in making that a reality.
A motto I try to live by "Be the change you want to see in the world" -Ghandi-
Now I'm not a Hippie or environmentalist/activest...I'm just an average guy trying to keep busy and stay happy doing the things I love and discovering new things to love daily. Just trying to stay sane in today's society is a challenge.
This forum is amazing and run with a lot of class. Most of the members are really good people with great ideas and good hearts....sometimes we just get a little crazy....but it's in our nature...we eat these god forsaken peppers don't we! Lol
So again, I apologize for any ruffled feathers. Let's chill things out and treat each other like brothers (and sisters-I got you ladies) or the nice brothers we always wished we had hahaha.
Thanks guys, no hard feelings on my end. Let's drop the mess and grow some heat or at least take some of the drama off the topic. Life's short, let's not waste it.
It wasn't my intention to point a finger at anyone. I do believe if we become informed that something is bad for the earth, we should do our best to find other means of acheiving what we want in a different matter. This isn't always possible as I do not have a horse to ride to work
although I might move to New York and become a park ranger to fix that...lolI only want to be informative and I read all of your posts with an open mind. I don't have everything figured out. I try and take what everyone says, analyze it (to the best of my ability) and if something I don't know or understand pops up (or possibly say to myself...wait a minute that doesn't sound right) I research it the best I can. I try and come to the best conclusion I can.
Whether MG is bad for the earth or not, I'd just rather not use them due to Scott's Brand and their lack of moral practices. Which after I read the article about the falsified reports and pesticide laced bird seed...that was the end for me. Even if it meant not growing anything until I found an achievable alternative.
To be honest, I just want to live in a world That's not run rampant with greed and careless practices. I've been thinking about having kids and that has brought me to think about what kind of world I want them to grow up in and what role I can play in making that a reality.
A motto I try to live by "Be the change you want to see in the world" -Ghandi-
Now I'm not a Hippie or environmentalist/activest...I'm just an average guy trying to keep busy and stay happy doing the things I love and discovering new things to love daily. Just trying to stay sane in today's society is a challenge.
This forum is amazing and run with a lot of class. Most of the members are really good people with great ideas and good hearts....sometimes we just get a little crazy....but it's in our nature...we eat these god forsaken peppers don't we! Lol
So again, I apologize for any ruffled feathers. Let's chill things out and treat each other like brothers (and sisters-I got you ladies) or the nice brothers we always wished we had hahaha.
Thanks guys, no hard feelings on my end. Let's drop the mess and grow some heat or at least take some of the drama off the topic. Life's short, let's not waste it.
He is in the IT department because there was no work in horticulture.
Also, he graduated many years back and has not been keeping up with the newest studies I don't believe.
You ever see that commercial about some type of sugar that's supposed to be better or organic?
It's very simple....it says the human body cannot distinguish if sugar came from sugar cane, corn, or anything else for that matter. All the body knows is that it's getting sugar. In one's mind and/or taste buds, it is different but where it counts the most, there is no difference.
Since plants do not have a brain, nor do I think taste buds....then to them, there is no difference if nitrogen came from Mars, Jupiter, the ground or some animal's behind.
Scientists want us to believe there is no GOD yet some of them are now looking for the so-called GOD particle.
30yrs ago, eggs and pork were bad for us, today, eggs don't have that much cholesterol as once thought and pork is "the other white meat".
Now lets go back to humans and deadly chemicals, I can give you some drink laced with a deadly amount of some type of chemical and you'd never taste, see it, nor smell it and die within seconds. So if a human that has the sense of smell, tatse and sight can't tell the difference between fruit punch that has no deadly chemicals in it or one that does, then how can plants?
Truth is, some guy with a microscope is the only one that can, other than that not much else can.
It doesn't take rocket science to figure some of this stuff out, just simple good old common sense.
The cycle between scientists and their findings will continue as always...maybe because the government wants it that way. The cycle I'm referring to is today something is good for you, ten years from now it causes cancer or today something is bad for you and ten years from now, it wasn't that bad afterall, etc, etc, etc...
Capsicum
Banned
I speak nothing but facts of science. If you have a problem with facts of science I don't know what to tell you. I would not consider speaking facts of science "drama".
Ok I see.
What new studies? This?
No they are not the same exact elements as one is petroleum based and the other is organic.
Yes the plant sees the NPK values equally but that is a very small portion of what is in the soil and is used by the plant.
Soil scientists are not even sure yet what is all in there and how it all works symbiotically but they do know about the symbiotic relationship of bacteria with the host plant and how it is superior for overall plant growth and health.
That was not copied and pasted from a site either.
"That was not copied and pasted from a site either.
"Yea you don't have to tell me that.
Do you have a PhD in horticulture?
"Also, he graduated many years back and has not been keeping up with the newest studies I don't believe. "
Hahaha. Please this is too funny I can't take it anymore!!!!! Please what "new" studies? Yours? hahaha
This is 100% on. Because it is 100% TRUE.
So who is right? Someone that worked hard in college to get their PhD in horticulture, or some hippies with opinions?
DatilDaddy
Banned
What is funny is your constant diatribes. Grow up boy!
You can take my MG potting mix out of my cold dead hands! lol
But where does petroleum come from if not decayed organic matter?
I agree that applying synthetic fertilizer is not a comprehensive method of supplying everything a plant needs but on the other hand that's where the soil comes in, some is better than others and it too, is largely decayed organic matter even if it's the topsoil from your lawn.
About cost though... there's more than one kind of cost. If I were cooking up special brews to supply nutrients, anything more fancy than just tossing my kitchen waste in a compost heap for later use, it'd take dozens if not hundreds of hours of my time to create the amount of NPK from organic fertilizer that is found in a $15, 40lb bag of 10-10-10. Is it destroying earth to use it? Maybe, or maybe growing with less effort allows me to not drive to the store as often for fresh produce.
