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soil Is MG soil worth it?

This is a really cool online community, one that usually manages to stay above the normal hostility of most of the web. That's one of the reasons I'm still here, that, and the incredible generosity of spirit, information, seeds, pods, tasty powders and awesome sauces sent to me by THP members, not to mention the close-knit feeling of brotherhood I share with so many guys here that I've never met in person. As far as I've seen, there's really no other place like it on the web.

I'm on both sides of this Miracle Grow argument—I still consider myself to be a newbie, and MG is one of those newbie crutches some of us get by with until we achieve the Chile Grower Greatness of AJ, wayright, or guru. Be forewarned, however, that everyone here will get sick of me harping on the wonders of chipped hardwood before it's all over with. :P My little 12-plant "pilot garden" at my home place is now in its third year of decay, and the results are not to be ignored.

The plants you see here were started in Jiffy Cups, transplanted to 6-inch plastic pots with MG potting soil, then set out in the garden, with no soil amendments other than a fresh 3-inch-thick mulch layer of chipped hardwood. Any nitrogen in the soil, other than what was contained in the root ball of the transplants, is from 3 years of decaying hardwood. The soil is so "hot" with nitrogen that on days where the air temperature is above 95ºF or so, I have to flush the soil to cool the plants down.

The native soil is reddish-brown sandy clay, an alluvial sediment of the Red River.

Aji Umba:

umba.jpg


View of the whole garden, Aji Amarillo in front, Aji Umba in back. The Aji Amarillo are so "hot" right now that they need flushing almost every day:

garden.jpg


I believe this is how we, as gardeners, can best "give back to the earth."
 
What is funny is your constant diatribes. Grow up boy!




Monsanto makes superior products.

If we were to convert to "organic" farming we would not be able to keep up with food needs.

" Is that what you "anti-Monsanto" want?
Be honest, you don't know what you want do you?"
 
Atta boy Wind! I'm on both sides of this fence too! Can't deny the results on either side. Here is my Organic test garden. Sandy desert soil with my own compost and worm castings added. I actually had my compost pile in this spot last year so the goodness had worked its way into the soil all season. I've been feeding nothing but worm/compost tea and the result...

Plants nearly 6' tall already. Yes there is a back row, and I planted way too close. I didn't foresee them getting this huge. I tried planting this spot with tomatoes 2 years ago with crap results. Greatly exceeded my wildest expectations so far. Wasn't familiar enough with "organic" growing to roll the dice on my entire garden this year. I have a massive compost pile just outside this shot that will be added to the entire garden this off season. What's really great is although I live in a desert I can take my cultivator and in 5 minutes have plenty of earthworms to take my son fishing. Great stuff.
 
Thanks so much DatilDaddy and thanks for the attaboy stc! Your bed is kicking butt and taking names! What varieties do you have there? To grow plants like that in the desert is amazing!

I didn't intend the fence metaphor, but it it sure works, doesn't it? We seem to both have garden labs, too!

Gary
 
Capsicum....I wasn't specifically talking to you. I was moreover talking about the hostile tone the thread had taken on. Which for some reason....after I apologize and try to dissipate...you would like to continue. I wasn't taking any jabs at your "Scientific" laced posts. (I put parentheses around it because I couldn't say if it was scientific or not)

The "Science" that I have read, indicates that the difference between organic nutrients and synthetic is not in how the plant understands or uses them but in how they are taken up by the plant.

There is a symbiotic relationship between the plant and micro organisms in the ground. The plant releases carbon that they feed on(Organic material) as well as other "Food" in the ground around them. In which they release available (inorganic) nutrients that the plant is able to take up and readily use.

On the other hand with synthetic nutrients. The plant does not have to release any carbon to receive it's nutrients. The matter is already in a usable state. This means that the plant can bypass the whole process that is required otherwise. Leaving no need for the symbiotic relationship with the other living organisms. There within they dwindle away and the soil that is left lacks the proper bio diversity it would otherwise need without the synthetic fertilizers.

This is what I've come to understand. I am not a scientist and can only use my common sense, along with other peoples opinions on the subject.

I do realize this is not in depth and a very general understanding but it is what I have come to understand and believe. So yes the plants don't know the difference between organic nutrients and synthetic. The way they take in organic VS. synthetic is where the problem lies. If the plant doesn't need the symbiotic relationship with the organisms around it, then they will die. That is the difference between feeding the soil and feeding the plant.

So yes....you can grow great gardens with MG and any other synthetic fertz. That is not very arguable as we see some very nice gardens using it. I was never debating that topic to begin with. The difference on or the other (Organic Vs. Synthetic) makes in the food web around it, is the topic that I am addressing.
 
Capsicum....I wasn't specifically talking to you. I was moreover talking about the hostile tone the thread had taken on. Which for some reason....after I apologize and try to dissipate...you would like to continue. I wasn't taking any jabs at your "Scientific" laced posts. (I put parentheses around it because I couldn't say if it was scientific or not)

The "Science" that I have read, indicates that the difference between organic nutrients and synthetic is not in how the plant understands or uses them but in how they are taken up by the plant.

" I couldn't say if it was scientific or not"
Once the organics are broken down by microorganisms they become elemental form, at that point they are the same thing as a synthetic fertilizer.

NO[sub]3[/sub]- or NH[sub]4[/sub]+ is an example. That is what the plant uptakes, that element is the SAME from organic or not.

Plants uptake elements. The molecules of the hydrocarbon chains in organics are too large, they need to be broken down into elemental form by soil life.The elements are the same from the organic (NO[sub]3[/sub]- or NH[sub]4[/sub]+ as the example). Where ever the nutrients came from they are all in elemental form and soluble , whether they came from worm castings or a synthetic fertilizer.




I agree with everything you said right here because it is all true.

The plants might not care but talk to the micro organisms in the soil after a little while....oh wait they won't be there....they will be dead.
 
Thanks so much DatilDaddy and thanks for the attaboy stc! Your bed is kicking butt and taking names! What varieties do you have there? To grow plants like that in the desert is amazing!

I didn't intend the fence metaphor, but it it sure works, doesn't it? We seem to both have garden labs, too!

Gary
Think my "garden lab" is about 12 years older than yours. L to R front row are a Jamaican Hot Yellow, Bishop's Crown, Goccia D'Oro, Black Naga, and you can see a long branch from a Manzano creeping into the photo. Back row and not visible are a Devil's Tongue Brown, 7 Pot Primo, Chocolate Bhut and Aji Amarillo all getting huge as well in spite of being shaded by the front row in the afternoon. Hope this thread either takes a positive turn or fades soon.
 
Attention folks:
There are hippies that may tell you made up things that are not true. Pay no attention to them.

Just too funny to hear these hippies thoughts....

2% of our food comes from organic crop production...

It is science. It is not my fault you can't understand.

If you can't understand that then it is time to learn some science. ;)


THP TOS:

Racist or any remarks that can be considered offensive will not be tolerated.
Please be civil. Discussions that turn into flame wars will not be tolerated.

http://thehotpepper....tion=boardrules

Please dont be like that.. even "if" he was rude, you don't need to be like that. Calling people hippy because of there opinions is "considered offensive" in my book.

Honestly I would let it go, but you seem to be on a roll. Carvin may not be going about this the right way, but you have to admit it has been instigated. I feel you have been trying to get me to go rounds with you as well. If I have been rude to you in the past I apologize, but please stop with the "hippy" this and "sorry you don't understand" that. Its getting old and making this site not as fun.
 
Honestly, if anyone is looking to share knowledge, the first step is NOT to alienate the folks you are looking to educate. If you "turn off" your target audience the you have accomplished nothing.

Name calling and hard sell tactics are not productive.

Put out your side and let people decide, then step back, the final choice is theirs.
 
Heated debate is fine; using personal attacks to demean and insult won't be tolerated.
Attention folks:
There are hippies that may tell you made up things that are not true. Pay no attention to them.

Drop the negativity and personal attacks >> Back on topic.

-Peter
 
This is a really cool online community, one that usually manages to stay above the normal hostility of most of the web. That's one of the reasons I'm still here, that, and the incredible generosity of spirit, information, seeds, pods, tasty powders and awesome sauces sent to me by THP members, not to mention the close-knit feeling of brotherhood I share with so many guys here that I've never met in person. As far as I've seen, there's really no other place like it on the web.

I'm on both sides of this Miracle Grow argument—I still consider myself to be a newbie, and MG is one of those newbie crutches some of us get by with until we achieve the Chile Grower Greatness of AJ, wayright, or guru. Be forewarned, however, that everyone here will get sick of me harping on the wonders of chipped hardwood before it's all over with. :P My little 12-plant "pilot garden" at my home place is now in its third year of decay, and the results are not to be ignored.

The plants you see here were started in Jiffy Cups, transplanted to 6-inch plastic pots with MG potting soil, then set out in the garden, with no soil amendments other than a fresh 3-inch-thick mulch layer of chipped hardwood. Any nitrogen in the soil, other than what was contained in the root ball of the transplants, is from 3 years of decaying hardwood. The soil is so "hot" with nitrogen that on days where the air temperature is above 95ºF or so, I have to flush the soil to cool the plants down.

The native soil is reddish-brown sandy clay, an alluvial sediment of the Red River.

Aji Umba:

umba.jpg


View of the whole garden, Aji Amarillo in front, Aji Umba in back. The Aji Amarillo are so "hot" right now that they need flushing almost every day:

garden.jpg


I believe this is how we, as gardeners, can best "give back to the earth."

This is a beautiful set of photos.
 
Think my "garden lab" is about 12 years older than yours. L to R front row are a Jamaican Hot Yellow, Bishop's Crown, Goccia D'Oro, Black Naga, and you can see a long branch from a Manzano creeping into the photo. Back row and not visible are a Devil's Tongue Brown, 7 Pot Primo, Chocolate Bhut and Aji Amarillo all getting huge as well in spite of being shaded by the front row in the afternoon. Hope this thread either takes a positive turn or fades soon.

Yours looks like a mellow dude for sure...My little Charlie is still driving the other dogs nuts with his constant activity...

That's a very nice selection...So that real tall one on the far left is the Jamaican Hot? Nice! How does Manzano do in your climate? I think if I can get Aji Amarillo to produce ripe fruit in Louisiana maybe I will try one of the C. pubescens chiles....

Gary
 
Honestly I would let it go, but you seem to be on a roll. Carvin may not be going about this the right way, but you have to admit it has been instigated. I feel you have been trying to get me to go rounds with you as well. If I have been rude to you in the past I apologize, but please stop with the "hippy" this and "sorry you don't understand" that. Its getting old and making this site not as fun.

Every time someone is having a discussion about something like this topic mg soil, you and others come on and say Monsanto is bad this and Monsanto that.

"but please stop with the "Monsanto" this and "organic is everything" that. Its getting old and making this site not as fun."



Not everyone cares about growing organically or how many mpgs their car gets. Its a differing opinion and just as you think anyone that doesn't care or doesn't know is ignorant and or lazy some do not care about the hippy save the planet crap.

Yes!!!! Brilliant!!! Bravo!!

Thanks millworkman. I agree with you all the way.


"some do not care about the hippy save the planet crap"



I am not the only one that uses the word "hippie"

Many others use "hippie" too as you can see.
 
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