You can patent a plant you can't patent seeds, why plants have an asexual reproduction isn't allowed but doesn't say you can't breed out of them to make your own plant. Fact is panting a plant is easy but other then Monsanto there's not one Co. IMO that win for someone one selling peppers or seeds out of the seeds the seeds someone bought.
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chinense Carolina Reaper and Pepper Stabilization
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me .... I am just waiting for the pods to be utterly illegal and then I'll grind one up ....
... and smoke it
Cheers, Al "legalize peppas" B.
... and smoke it
Cheers, Al "legalize peppas" B.
If they want to go through legal matters to try and derail people from selling seeds or pods or whatever else. Bring that shit on. I'll give all of mine away for free. Lets see how much money they make trying to sell their seeds when everyone can get them from me or others for free. That's a war they won't win imo.
I've been keeping up with the other thread about growing the Reaper and this one also. I've read lots of horrible experiences that many people have had but I gotta say that my purchase and experience dealing with Pepper Joe has been fantastic. I have no complaints at all. Here are a few pics of my potted Reaper that I took today.
Here are a couple that I took not that long ago.
This is my first time ever trying to grow super hots. I didn't even know that "super hot" peppers even existed. I got 7 out of 10 seeds to sprout. All survived but one is a runt. I'm very satisfied with what I have growing.
I sure hope I don't get sued because I have publicly posted on Facebook that I have sold some of my Carolina Reaper plants. This whole pepper growing experience has been awesome for me so I have been posting like crazy about it on Pepper Joe's Facebook page. That's where I posted about selling the plants and in actuality I feel like I was encouraged to do so. It's all documented on Pepper Joe's page if y'all want to check it out. Joe has been really nice about it and I have never been contacted to stop. This is my original post.
This photo was even shared on their page.
If you read the comments on that post you'll see that I caught some hell for selling it from some people but not from Pepper Joe.
Here is another post when I sold another Carolina Reaper.
The response seems pretty encouraging to me.
When I sent Pepper Joe a message about purchasing some fresh peppers he recommended me to Baker's Peppers. He didn't seem to have any issue with someone making a few bucks from selling some Carolina Reaper's.
So there is my experience. Good service, good product and great customer service after my purchase. Joe has kindly answered all of my growing questions. As far as selling anything Carolina Reaper related, all I can say is that I feel that I have not been hindered but encouraged by Pepper Joe. I mean after all, he will also benefit if I make a few bucks because I already plan on returning to purchase from him again next season. My main goal by selling my Carolina Reaper plants was to earn enough money to buy the Volcano in a Box.
'Nuff said.
Here are a couple that I took not that long ago.
This is my first time ever trying to grow super hots. I didn't even know that "super hot" peppers even existed. I got 7 out of 10 seeds to sprout. All survived but one is a runt. I'm very satisfied with what I have growing.
I sure hope I don't get sued because I have publicly posted on Facebook that I have sold some of my Carolina Reaper plants. This whole pepper growing experience has been awesome for me so I have been posting like crazy about it on Pepper Joe's Facebook page. That's where I posted about selling the plants and in actuality I feel like I was encouraged to do so. It's all documented on Pepper Joe's page if y'all want to check it out. Joe has been really nice about it and I have never been contacted to stop. This is my original post.
This photo was even shared on their page.
If you read the comments on that post you'll see that I caught some hell for selling it from some people but not from Pepper Joe.
Here is another post when I sold another Carolina Reaper.
The response seems pretty encouraging to me.
When I sent Pepper Joe a message about purchasing some fresh peppers he recommended me to Baker's Peppers. He didn't seem to have any issue with someone making a few bucks from selling some Carolina Reaper's.
So there is my experience. Good service, good product and great customer service after my purchase. Joe has kindly answered all of my growing questions. As far as selling anything Carolina Reaper related, all I can say is that I feel that I have not been hindered but encouraged by Pepper Joe. I mean after all, he will also benefit if I make a few bucks because I already plan on returning to purchase from him again next season. My main goal by selling my Carolina Reaper plants was to earn enough money to buy the Volcano in a Box.
'Nuff said.
theghostpepperstore said:Just to throw out my 2 cents. I agree that you have to define what traits you are aiming to stabilize. I think if Ed was aiming for consistent heat levels, it would have been smart to define that up front, because to most of us, stability means pod size, shape, texture, and heat. That might have saved him all of this headache.
I would consider 90% uniform pods stable, but then you have to define uniformity. You could be really strict and say the pods must be within 1% variance in size, or heat or you could say 20% is acceptable. Color, shape and texture are a little more obvious, but even harder to define quantitatively.
Using TS Butch T as an example (since it's stability was called into question as well) , last year I took semi-random samplings of 100 pods throughout the year and I think over the course of the year I had an average of 83% that fit MY definition of what Butch T's should look like. I consider that relatively stable. Given another observer, they might only classify 40% of them as Butch T's, because it is all very subjective. From what I have seen so far this year, my first round of Butch T's will be NOWHERE near 83%, it is looking more like 40%, but they haven't been harvested yet. All the seed came from either isolation, or were left over from the original seeds that I purchased from Neil. They are in a different spot this year, and the weather is the complete opposite of last year, so maybe it is just environment conditions, hard to say.
TL
"he Pepper
=========
One look at the Carolina Reapers Pod shape and you just know you have to have it. Because of the heat? No, because of the taste and flavor. Do we need a new Worlds Hottest? I think so. We have the Superbowl, World Series, Grammy and Oscar awards for new champs every year. The awesome thing is each one has a unique taste, nutritional profile, pod shape and plant growth. They are all different. The flavor of the HP22B is delightful. The Fruity and sweet/hot aroma hits you as soon as you cut it open. Then you'll notice the pleasant taste and an undertone of chocolate/cherry. It is one delicious pepper. Relatively EZ to grow too."
http://www.pepperjoe.com/shoppingcart/html/pepper.html
I think the focus was heat and taste.
I think Ed has let an unscrupulous conman influence him. Just MHO.
+1Wustenfuchs said:
Yep, peppers and used car salesman pitch don't "emulsify"Al-from-Chile said:
We have thousands upon thousands of HP22 (reaper) plants and I can honestly say all but about 10 plants have perfect looking pods. I'd call that as consistent as anything we grow. All our seeds came directly from Ed.
The reaper is in fact an F8 and this isn't a new claim.
A LOT of factors can very pods greatly including this odd weather most are experiencing this year.
I have hundreds of CPI bhut seeds and quite a few plants are producing pods that look nothing like bhuts and this happens all the time, even with seeds from CPI.
The reaper is not the first pepper that has legal ties. If you sold "red savina" or "white bullet" up until just a few years ago yes indeed you would have been sued. If you sell "peppadew" right now I guarantee you will have lawyers contacting you. This isn't unique to Ed currie. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know what is legal to do and what isn't but my point is, he's not the first to try and legally protect his investment.
In terms of Ed currie as a person, he's not all about money. Ed is extremely nice and forgiving. Quite frankly he's associated himself with a few people before and I personally have even asked him WHY because they aren't people that align with his Christian values in my opinion but this never sways his desire to like everyone. He simply does not judge others. Opinions about a pepper are one thing and everyone is entitled but when you start attacking a persons values, especially when you don't even know them, sorry but that's just wrong.
Happy growing.
The reaper is in fact an F8 and this isn't a new claim.
A LOT of factors can very pods greatly including this odd weather most are experiencing this year.
I have hundreds of CPI bhut seeds and quite a few plants are producing pods that look nothing like bhuts and this happens all the time, even with seeds from CPI.
The reaper is not the first pepper that has legal ties. If you sold "red savina" or "white bullet" up until just a few years ago yes indeed you would have been sued. If you sell "peppadew" right now I guarantee you will have lawyers contacting you. This isn't unique to Ed currie. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know what is legal to do and what isn't but my point is, he's not the first to try and legally protect his investment.
In terms of Ed currie as a person, he's not all about money. Ed is extremely nice and forgiving. Quite frankly he's associated himself with a few people before and I personally have even asked him WHY because they aren't people that align with his Christian values in my opinion but this never sways his desire to like everyone. He simply does not judge others. Opinions about a pepper are one thing and everyone is entitled but when you start attacking a persons values, especially when you don't even know them, sorry but that's just wrong.
Happy growing.
Pepper-Guru
eXtreme
- I've got to start selling my plants and stuff...
millworkman
eXtreme
Pepper-Guru said:
You could charge 1k for your bigguns and people would pay. Shit I'd pay!
NOT LEGAL ADVICE HERE BUT...
A TM does not prevent you from selling. It protects the mark... the name. Coca-Cola. I can sell Coca-Cola. I can use that name when I sell it, because that's what it is. Coca-Cola. If I make a hot sauce with Coca-Cola, I could not use that as part of the name of the sauce (w/o proper licensing), and in the ingredients, I would just list cola. So take heed when using these peppers in your products. But understand what a TM is. It has nothing to do with distribution.
"Plant Variety Protection" is different. Example, Red Savina as seen here: http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/showpvp.pl?pvpno=9200255
The protection has expired but it was protected by the Plant Variety Protection Office of the USDA. Not by TM. They put (tm) after Red Savina because you can put (tm) after anything you want to protect, it does not have to be registered, but when it is, you see (r), not (tm).
(r) Protects the name
Plant Variety Protection protects the plant variety with a PVPC (Plant Variety Protection Certificate). Like a patent for peppers.
Carolina Reaper is not listed.
There may be resell agreements in place when you purchase seeds, but this would be an agreement between you and the seller, and not anything to do with the government. So you could be in breach of your agreement with them. This is not because the name is a registered trademark, it is solely because of that agreement.
If anyone tries to sue you for selling the unadulterated seeds or pods because the name is a registered trademark there would be no case, because that's not what trademarks do.
AGAIN, NOT LEGAL ADVICE! ALWAYS GET YOUR LEGAL ADVICE FROM AN ATTORNEY.
Not taking any sides just speaking in general about TMs.
A TM does not prevent you from selling. It protects the mark... the name. Coca-Cola. I can sell Coca-Cola. I can use that name when I sell it, because that's what it is. Coca-Cola. If I make a hot sauce with Coca-Cola, I could not use that as part of the name of the sauce (w/o proper licensing), and in the ingredients, I would just list cola. So take heed when using these peppers in your products. But understand what a TM is. It has nothing to do with distribution.
"Plant Variety Protection" is different. Example, Red Savina as seen here: http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/showpvp.pl?pvpno=9200255
The protection has expired but it was protected by the Plant Variety Protection Office of the USDA. Not by TM. They put (tm) after Red Savina because you can put (tm) after anything you want to protect, it does not have to be registered, but when it is, you see (r), not (tm).
(r) Protects the name
Plant Variety Protection protects the plant variety with a PVPC (Plant Variety Protection Certificate). Like a patent for peppers.
Carolina Reaper is not listed.
There may be resell agreements in place when you purchase seeds, but this would be an agreement between you and the seller, and not anything to do with the government. So you could be in breach of your agreement with them. This is not because the name is a registered trademark, it is solely because of that agreement.
If anyone tries to sue you for selling the unadulterated seeds or pods because the name is a registered trademark there would be no case, because that's not what trademarks do.
AGAIN, NOT LEGAL ADVICE! ALWAYS GET YOUR LEGAL ADVICE FROM AN ATTORNEY.
Not taking any sides just speaking in general about TMs.
Also remember anyone can threaten to sue you over anything, that doesn't mean they have a case. I'm sure some people here have received a "cease and desist" from someone over something, that doesn't mean there are legal grounds for you to cease and desist, it simply means they want you to. They may cite trademarks and other violations even though you are not violating anything.
Again, just a general statement. Not taking any sides or saying anyone has been sent one.
I'm pretty sure no one was ever sued over the Red Savina. However they probably sent plenty of cease and desists. The variety was protected but that's more like a patent, and that would protect them from someone growing the Red Savina and calling it their own variety name, or someone copying the breeding. The registered trademark would cover the opposite, calling it Red Savina but it was a different variety. Name protection.
The PVPC would be the better protection in trying to stop someone from selling your "invention" (plants, seeds) much like a patent. But that would be an expensive uphill battle in court. It's not clear cut like patents. After all, it's a pepper that grows in nature.
Again, just a general statement. Not taking any sides or saying anyone has been sent one.
I'm pretty sure no one was ever sued over the Red Savina. However they probably sent plenty of cease and desists. The variety was protected but that's more like a patent, and that would protect them from someone growing the Red Savina and calling it their own variety name, or someone copying the breeding. The registered trademark would cover the opposite, calling it Red Savina but it was a different variety. Name protection.
The PVPC would be the better protection in trying to stop someone from selling your "invention" (plants, seeds) much like a patent. But that would be an expensive uphill battle in court. It's not clear cut like patents. After all, it's a pepper that grows in nature.
I have seen several implications that seed not bought from Ed may be adulterated. Joe posted plainly here the Ed packaged his seeds, I could dig up the post I guess.
Also if I am in business selling a product and one of my sellers is causing me problems, through altered seed sales, I put the vendor off my sales force.So in this case I see Joe continues to sell seed, what does that tell you about the business, dollars are pretty important, maybe more than anything else.
So I do not know who is telling the truth, but it is interesting.
All who bought from the original vendor and have odd shaped pods, post them here with your growing conditions and maybe you can be told where YOU errored in your nurturing of the plant.
Also if I am in business selling a product and one of my sellers is causing me problems, through altered seed sales, I put the vendor off my sales force.So in this case I see Joe continues to sell seed, what does that tell you about the business, dollars are pretty important, maybe more than anything else.
So I do not know who is telling the truth, but it is interesting.
All who bought from the original vendor and have odd shaped pods, post them here with your growing conditions and maybe you can be told where YOU errored in your nurturing of the plant.
a yellow fatalii should be a yellow fatalii under all growing conditions ... and not turn into a red jalapeño because of humidity, sun or excess in N ...
Pepper-Guru
eXtreme
Pod shape, color and genus may vary! LoL!
Seriously though. The best way to deal with these companies is to post your plants and pepper variants in this thread. Lets see some documentation!
Seriously though. The best way to deal with these companies is to post your plants and pepper variants in this thread. Lets see some documentation!
Al-from-Chile said:a yellow fatalii should be a yellow fatalii under all growing conditions ... and not turn into a red jalapeño because of humidity, sun or excess in N ...
That is essentially what I said a couple pages ago. For example, not all scorpions have stingers and not all scotch bonnets have that true bonnet shape, but there is 50% or so on each plant that have those characteristics and it is easy to tell if you have a scorp or SB by looking at all the pods. The reaper variants I see on here look like a totally different plant. choc hab, naga, red hab, et.al. There is no way these are the same plants. In my opinion, I doubt they are recessive genes either, probably crosses or poor seed quality control.
I can't find the exact proof of this. Are we not allowed to sell reaper pods legally? I read that Baker's burnt all his plants and i checked his site and he's not selling them anymore. Is that true? If so i may do the same as i'm not growing them for myself anymore as they aren't to my taste or liking, but i know others that maybe interested in buying them.
Brain Strain > Crappers
Hail the Brain!
EDIT: i meant to say Creapers
Brain Strain > Crappers
Hail the Brain!
EDIT: i meant to say Creapers