commercial-kichen Commercial kitchen project

HellfireFarm

HellfireFarm

eXtreme Business
Time to kick off this project!

I called the electric company today to have them come out and tell me what it's going to take to get the new service. County tells me that because of my agricultural zoning, this counts as a farm outbuilding so isn't subject to the permit requirements something like a house or commercial structure would be (YAY!). Especially since it's an existing structure being converted. That means I'll be able to use the existing well and septic, too. All the major hurdles are out of the way.

Next I need to get ahold of Ag department and county health to see if there's anything I need to do for them before I start. Obviously I will need a water test and probably some sort of filtration or purification.
 
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salsalady said:
Sounds like no inspection? Take lots of pics. For us ::): and for future.


Not sure what is referenced to the 2" clamp and pass thru's?
Click to expand...

Yeah I didn't get pics of this one, probably should go back and get some.

County said no permit, no inspection. It's a farm outbuilding. I can't even REQUEST a permit or inspection. Figure that. Either way, though, I strive to ensure I do everything to code - it exists for a reason! ESPECIALLY when it comes to electrical.

I'm sure I'm using the wrong terminology. There was a 2" punch-out on the back of the panel. I drilled a hole through the wall to match and ran the wires through there. When I was originally thinking of running a circuit out there (before kitchen idea) I got some conduit and there was something that went on the end of it to fasten it through the hole - that's what I'm thinking of. I don't remember what it was called but I was thinking something like that should be here too instead of the bare wood!
 
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Depending on the type of wire used, some can go thru drilled wood (like Romex) and some are supposed to be in conduit. THHN vs NMB.
 
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salsalady said:
Depending on the type of wire used, some can go thru drilled wood (like Romex) and some are supposed to be in conduit. THHN vs NMB.
Click to expand...

This is Romex so no worries there. I guess I was just thinking more of protection of the wood from water. There's no flashing to prevent water penetration behind the panel - something passing through the hole would give it more protection than leaving it bare.

Perspective: The windows in my house were installed without flashing ~20 years ago and they're all in pretty bad shape now. I'm replacing them a pair at a time and I'm finding a lot of rot underneath, including structural elements, so I'm VERY paranoid about flashing! But I can't find anything about flashing panels, only outlets, and the retired inspector I know says it's not required.
 
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Ok did a lot more research to understand what's going on there & finally understand a bit better. Didn't hurt that I found where I had lost my code book - that certainly helps!

Here's some pics of the latest work

Subpanel
20230301_130101.jpg


Ceiling insulation
20230301_125925.jpg


Read through the heater installation manual last night - that's going to be tough. A LOT of stuff to think about and pay attention to, so that's going to be a "slow and easy double check everything and have a checklist" project. Looks like my propane install is going to end up a 2-parter.

The good news is that I have now bought or ordered everything required for construction (i.e. finished but empty kitchen) except for a few incidentals, and I'm only about $700 over budget. Given that I didn't consider tax in the budget I'd say that's pretty good!
 
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Finished the insulation yesterday, ceiling is going up today. Propane guy was out on Thursday - he's used to cook shacks so this was a bit different for him. Going to call him out again when the wall is up.

20230304_174754.jpg

Side note on the plumbing stubout brackets - I couldn't find any that would fit the 24" centers, so had to improvise the diagonal installation. Always something different...
 
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Nice work around for the plumbing.

We have sometimes used those straps when the plumber ran their vent pipe smack dab center of the sink where the vanity light goes. Fasten a pancake box to the strap with a couple screws and nuts. Sometimes i am tempted to just screw the pancake box to the vent pipe......but havent actually done that.....yet.....
 
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I do know of one situation where a sheetrock screw went into a copper water line.

15 years later, an unrelated event required removal of sheetrock.....and said sheetrock screw in the copper water line was removed, resulting in water line flooding.....

Yeah, it was a further mess...
 
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Hellfire, i just linked your FM start to a new post and got to wondering....

Did you ever do or try seasoning salt blends with your dry pepper powders? Easy, high profit, return customers....
 
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salsalady said:
I do know of one situation where a sheetrock screw went into a copper water line.

15 years later, an unrelated event required removal of sheetrock.....and said sheetrock screw in the copper water line was removed, resulting in water line flooding.....

Yeah, it was a further mess...
Click to expand...

Ugh.
I plan to avoid that by using those metal plates to block screw or nail penetration. Not in any of the pics because I wasn't done but they're over everything - wires, plumbing PROPANE.

salsalady said:
Hellfire, i just linked your FM start to a new post and got to wondering....

Did you ever do or try seasoning salt blends with your dry pepper powders? Easy, high profit, return customers....
Click to expand...

Not yet but spice blends and seasoning salts are on the list! Starting to work them out this year.
 
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Milestone achieved! Ceiling is done. Lights currently powered by a temporary connection until I finish connecting the panel, but much better than the single 4' bar I was using.
20230309_191112.jpg



Ceiling was a bit of a challenge, especially with the precision cutting I needed for those lights, so it's a big relief. Its also the main thing I needed help with so I had to coordinate schedule with my son. Most of the rest of this I can do alone.
 
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Been working on the wall insulation. It's mostly done - the two sides are complete, have to do the back and front walls now. No pics of that.

To finish the back, though, I realized that I had to actually wire the breaker panel while I could easily get to the wires from both sides! So that was part of today's work. Had to disconnect the lights from the temporary hookup in the meantime, so back to the hanging shop light for now.

20230314_175135.jpg


Actually going to be replacing the 20A double-pole (bottom right) with a 15A for the AC, and the 20A right above it is a "spare" placeholder for the moment.

Back inside for now until I have a good chance to finish running the power line from the main breaker!
 
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So I keep looking at that panel and thinking "That's not right".

Pretty sure ground and neutral shouldn't be on the same bus like that so I'm going to need to figure out what to do to ground it properly since the panel only has the one bus. Research time again!

Whatever you do, don't take any of my pics as "how to" instructions!
 
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Is this coming from the house panel or from the 400 amp upgrade?

Either way, the panel needs a MAIN BREAKER. you can put a (80 amp? 90 amp? whatever) 2 pole breaker in the top left spot with a LOCKDOWN bracket. Don't land the power wires on the lugs, they need to be on a breaker.

If the power is coming straight off the meter, the grounds and neutrals can be on the same bar.
If the power is coming from the house panel, this panel is considered a SUBPANEL and the grounds and neutrals need to be separated. The neuts stay on the provided bar, a secondary ground bar needs to be installed. And float the neutral bar.

In either scenario, you need to install 2 ground rods outside the building, 8 feet apart, fed with #6 or #4 copper, depending on if it is a subpanel or not.

Putting in the MAIN BREAKER will take up 2 breaker spaces, might need a couple "peanut" breakers.
www.homedepot.com

Square D Homeline 15 Amp 20 Amp Single-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker HOMT1520CP - The Home Depot

The Square D by Schneider Electric Homeline Single-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker consists of (1) single-pole, 15 Amp and (1) single-pole, 20 Amp breaker. Requiring only 1 pole space, it is used for overload
www.homedepot.com
www.homedepot.com

Square D QO 2-20 Amp Single-Pole Class CTL Tandem Circuit Breaker QOT2020CP - The Home Depot

The Square D by Schneider Electric QO 20 Amp Single-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker is intended for overload and short-circuit protection of your electrical system. This breaker offers 2 circuits in the space
www.homedepot.com

Things are coming along, you will be cranking out hot stuff in no time!
SL



After actually looking at the breakers, it looks like there are 3 unused ones. If those are spares, you can reconfig to make room for a MAIN breaker.
 
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salsalady said:
Is this coming from the house panel or from the 400 amp upgrade?
Click to expand...
40 Amp run from house panel.
salsalady said:
Either way, the panel needs a MAIN BREAKER. you can put a (80 amp? 90 amp? whatever) 2 pole breaker in the top left spot with a LOCKDOWN bracket. Don't land the power wires on the lugs, they need to be on a breaker.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I didn't see that being required for this setup, but I was thinking about how I would do something like that. Would you mind pointing me at the code for that so I can see what I missed?
I have some 40A breakers already, since the house panel will have a 40A too that would seem reasonable, right?

I think I know what you mean by a lockdown bracket. I'll grab one when I pick up the other stuff.
salsalady said:
If the power is coming straight off the meter, the grounds and neutrals can be on the same bar.
If the power is coming from the house panel, this panel is considered a SUBPANEL and the grounds and neutrals need to be separated. The neuts stay on the provided bar, a secondary ground bar needs to be installed. And float the neutral bar.
Click to expand...
In either scenario, you need to install 2 ground rods outside the building, 8 feet apart, fed with #6 or #4 copper, depending on if it is a subpanel or not.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's where I stopped - spent several hours Tuesday night reading up on this. Got all the parts ordered and picking it up this weekend. Driving that ground rod looks like it's going to be fun 🥵

I'm no pro, but at least I know enough to know when it's time to step back and take a closer look at things before moving forward. Thanks for keeping me on track!
salsalady said:
Putting in the MAIN BREAKER will take up 2 breaker spaces, might need a couple "peanut" breakers.
Click to expand...
Hmm, one of those is a "spare" so I may be able to get by with only one of those.
salsalady said:
Things are coming along, you will be cranking out hot stuff in no time!
SL
Click to expand...
Hoping so! It's been quite a bit of work already, can't wait to get cooking!
 
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"And float the neutral bar."

Just to confirm what you mean - this means the neutral is electrically isolated from the box, right?

Also on the bracket for the main breaker - I'm pretty sure I know what you mean but I'm having a lot of trouble finding one! Best I've found is this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Square-D-H...-Load-Center-Breaker-Retaining-Kit/5001498659 but if that's right I'm not sure it's compatible with my (eaton) box. Although it's a very minor risk..
 
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The lockdown is correct for the SqD Homeline panel. Although after looking closely at the panel, i xa3nt see where the lockdown screws into. If it wont accept the lockdown, at least use a main breaker configuration.

Neutral-I dont see a bonding screw on the neutral bar. Interesting. It should be a green screw that goes thru the neutral bar into the panel box, bonding both. Since i dont see the bonding screw, i am assuming the neutrals are isolated.


If you cant get ground rods pounded into the ground, you can use grounding plates which have to be in a 30" deep hole. 2 plates, 8feet apart...more expensive, but easier to install.
 
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