99.99785425 is more accurate. 80% don't even cook ! 
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soil Is MG soil worth it?
- Thread starter DatilDaddy
- Start date
Millworkman, I am going to call someone out if they know that a product is garbage for the environment and continue to use it because it is easy. It is not an attack, it was defending my point of view based on that point of view being called "Crap"
Caring about the environment and the human races' existence is not hippy crap. It's smart and courageous. Ignoring it and doing what ever you want is lazy and ignorant.
Caring about the environment and the human races' existence is not hippy crap. It's smart and courageous. Ignoring it and doing what ever you want is lazy and ignorant.
I like turtles with long hair.
Your definition of convoluted must be skewed.....http://www.rodale.com/toxic-birdseed
This is only one example. I don't really think I need to post anymore after reading this. If you don't care about what happened here, then I don't think there is really a point anyway.
millworkman
eXtreme
You even said it yourself, your "point of view." That does not mean fact and it does not mean everyone else is wrong. Calling someone lazy and ignorant for having a differing point of view is an attack. It is always nice to have a discussion but when people start throwing around insults because someone suggests something else starts a ton of crap that is not needed and will not be tolerated. No one is saying "Use Miracle gro, it's the best," hell he even said its not available to him but differing ideas on a subject are how "[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]the world survives and cultures live on." [/background]
I think you are reading more into a post then was intended sir.
When did anyone allude to the fact that they "look down" on those who do not think the same way?
Telling someone a superior way to do something in gardening is called, "educating" not looking down on them.
Meh, I'm with armac on this and not reading into it as much as you wrote into it. For instance...saying the it bothers you most when "someone else" IN YOUR OPINION doesn't put as much effort into something that you think is superior. My question to you and anyone here is who decides what product is more superior than another?
I can put all the effort into many things but what people that think they're superior to others don't understand is, not everything is as available to everyone else like you think it is and if it is, maybe one of those things is time.
IMHO opinion, unless you live in the San Joaquin Valley or some parts of France, superior soil is dependant on climate, and a bunch of other things so althoug MG works goos for many of us here down south, maybe it don't work so good in other places. PLUS...not all varieties of peppers grow in the same soil the same. WHat can be good for Habaneros might not be so good for Bhuts, etc... Also, do you want organic or chemical, etc, etc, etc....
The bottom line is, if it works and it's easily available, why should it bother you what kind of soil other people choose?
Me, I don't give a rat's behind if someone wants to spend $1,000s on some soil that you think is superior or get it free from your own backyard.
The best peppers in the world grow wild and each within it's own climate and enviroment, etc, etc, etc... Maybe we should all put more effort into it and go visit these places on our own just so we can say our peppers are superior to everyone else's.
There is no superior....there's what works best for everyone and that can be MG for some and maybe someone's backyard dirt for others.
If there was such a thing as superior, then we'd all be growing the exact same things, our plants would all be the same size, this site wouldn't exist, etc, etc, etc...
Seriously, how can someone from Alaska give someone from Texas advice on what soil to use, when to plant the seeds, what fertilizer to use, etc, etc, etc...?
We are all from different parts of the world, some products aren't availabe for all and some, although can put all the effort in the world into something, maybe they don't have all the money in the world to do what they were hoping to accomplish.
SUPERIOR? really?
My point of view is based on fact. Calling it a "Point of view" doesn't mean that it is not based on fact.
I was defending my point of view to an attack that was made on it. It was not sugar coated. Lazy and ignorant are describing words as are the words that boss used to describe BakersPeppers actions in an earlier thread. And I quote "[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]You have not "made your point," you have really made an ass of yourself and probably lost your pepper business."[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]I was under the assumption that we could freely express our opinions on this site as long as we are not being vulgar. I guess I have to use censorship and tippy toe around here.[/background]
Because it is destroying the environment.
I was defending my point of view to an attack that was made on it. It was not sugar coated. Lazy and ignorant are describing words as are the words that boss used to describe BakersPeppers actions in an earlier thread. And I quote "[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]You have not "made your point," you have really made an ass of yourself and probably lost your pepper business."[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]I was under the assumption that we could freely express our opinions on this site as long as we are not being vulgar. I guess I have to use censorship and tippy toe around here.[/background]
Because it is destroying the environment.
Pepper-Guru
eXtreme
I don't see anyone attacking anyone really. Some comments have gotten close, like specific name calling, but for the most part its all been chill. Now...all I have to add to this discussion is a simple collection of observations... I see this continually happen from time to time, and its always the same scenario. Someone asks about MG, an informed member responds with facts of caution and truth about it, then a MG user gets butt hurt over it and takes it as a personal attack on their character. This is where things go off in a tangent. People get called asses, then said "ass" is thought of as "someone trying to complicate things". The facts are out there about these topics, all it takes is a little non propagandized information. The bottom line is this...if you use chemically derived fertilizers of mass produced grow mediums by corporations, then you should ask what it is that you're really using. Sure it will grow plants, sure it's easy, sure they are widely available, but that doesn't make them inherently good. Its just what people are conditioned to do...not think, just consume. That's the bigger point here. No one looks down on new growers for using any products, and thusly no product user should look down on "organic growers" for sharing concerns. In the end its all about education. Were all here to learn more about plants. Why not really learn? No fighting or backlash of statements are necessary. Just grow what you grow in and if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing. Move on to another thread that you can contribute to positively 
Lets shut up and grow. This is why aI advocate sharing thoughts in your grow log as much as possible. Its your g log, say what you want.
Lets shut up and grow. This is why aI advocate sharing thoughts in your grow log as much as possible. Its your g log, say what you want. People buy soil ??? . 
I just visit the pasture, make some cowsh-oup, toss in a wheel barrow full of rotting fruit with 4 black dirt, some leaves. Done.
The worms handle the rest.I like rice husks ( or shredded styrofoam) when the heavy rains show up.
I just visit the pasture, make some cowsh-oup, toss in a wheel barrow full of rotting fruit with 4 black dirt, some leaves. Done.
The worms handle the rest.I like rice husks ( or shredded styrofoam) when the heavy rains show up.
Pepper-Guru
eXtreme
Exactly...want good soil? Go outside and grab some.
People buy soil ??? .
I just visit the pasture, make some cowsh-oup, toss in a wheel barrow full of rotting fruit with 4 black dirt, some leaves. Done.
The worms handle the rest.I like rice husks ( or shredded styrofoam) when the heavy rains show up.
...*sigh*...I need land
As a previous Miracle Grow user, I used it because it grew stuff pretty well, it was relatively cheap, it was easy to get, etc. As others have said, do a little research on the company that is Scotts/Monstanto/Miracle Grow - you'll be shocked. Some of what goes into the soil and fertilizers is know carcinogenic in minute amounts...uptake of these chemicals is often systemically absorbed per the plant and ingested by you...mmmmm.
Also, people have brought up mutations per MG - mutations are a natural process within nature, but not at the rates introduced within these products. This is the same thing as us humans being attacked and infected by *superbugs*. These superbugs are multi-drug resistant bacteria and fungi that have mutated as a result of improper antibiotic treatment over the last several decades. You are getting a similar effect happening in gardening - there is stuff out there that is resistant to extremely strong fungicides and bacteriocides.
On the flip side, I understand that not everyone has access to awesome garden stores, or have room to compost, or can get anything else where they live besides MG or Scotts, etc. In this situation, I understand that sometimes you just have to do what you can...or else your hobby can't be maintained and enjoyed.
You missed the best bit, I'm not a MG soil user, as I clearly pointed out.I don't see anyone attacking anyone really. Some comments have gotten close, like specific name calling, but for the most part its all been chill. Now...all I have to add to this discussion is a simple collection of observations... I see this continually happen from time to time, and its always the same scenario. Someone asks about MG, an informed member responds with facts of caution and truth about it, then a MG user gets butt hurt over it and takes it as a personal attack on their character. This is where things go off in a tangent. People get called asses, then said "ass" is thought of as "someone trying to complicate things". The facts are out there about these topics, all it takes is a little non propagandized information. The bottom line is this...if you use chemically derived fertilizers of mass produced grow mediums by corporations, then you should ask what it is that you're really using. Sure it will grow plants, sure it's easy, sure they are widely available, but that doesn't make them inherently good. Its just what people are conditioned to do...not think, just consume. That's the bigger point here. No one looks down on new growers for using any products, and thusly no product user should look down on "organic growers" for sharing concerns. In the end its all about education. Were all here to learn more about plants. Why not really learn? No fighting or backlash of statements are necessary. Just grow what you grow in and if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing. Move on to another thread that you can contribute to positively
I was too busy laughing to respond any further though.
But for the record I like debco organic mix, with blood and bone based fert and a bit of rooster booster (pelleted chook manure). Someone just didn't care to read the fact that I don't use MG soil and it's not even available here.
The only 'crap' I mentioned was if I mentioned those brands and prices, how much good would it do you? Not much. Just like brands and prices mentioned wouldn't have done me much good, so 'crap' information.
But like most things, the most recent convents to anything go above and beyond and look ridiculous in their proselyting.
Quoting the owner of the board and trying to defend your own opinion may be counterproductive, to say the least.
But it is funny that you bring up something from a MONTH ago to defend yourself.
I believe that would qualify as butt hurt, that was the term that Guru used right?
Should we get back to soil?
But it is funny that you bring up something from a MONTH ago to defend yourself.
I believe that would qualify as butt hurt, that was the term that Guru used right?
Should we get back to soil?
millworkman
eXtreme
3/5, You are bastardizing someone because of their opinion just as I am doing of yours, even though I agree with you, and Rich and prefer to grow as organically and sustainably as possible. All I am saying is calm down a little bit, relax and then post. No one is censoring you, no one is telling you not to say something.
Rich, that is basically what I was trying to say, and the people who were in "dicussion" do not even use the product mentioned.
Rich, that is basically what I was trying to say, and the people who were in "dicussion" do not even use the product mentioned.
Just how sure are you about everyone having a recycliong facility near them?
As to your question....why not make our own soil?
1. Not all of us have the time.
2. Not all of us have a recycling center.
3. Not all of us have the knowledge or time to get that knowledge.
4. Not all of us have the tools/equipment
5. Why work at something that's already made for you?
6. It's like asking why don't we ALWAYS cook our own food? Do you?
7. Some say it's cheaper yet, if you have to drive over here to get compost, then drive over there to get sand, then drive that way to get mulch, how much cheaper is it and you've already spent more time trying to make something you thought was cheaper because you're not including the time nor the gas you spent, etc, etc, etc...? And is it really that much better?
There are so many variables that it's rediculous for people to say it's much better, cheaper and easier this way....because for some it may be true but for others that live 100 miles away from a major city...uhm....YOU ARE WRONG! Should I just tell the people at the recycling center to fill up my motorcycle bags with compost or maybe I should pay a dumptruck service a couple grand to go dump it in my backyard 100 miles away.
Sorry, but not everything is as simple as others try to make it out to be because not everybody has a truck or lives near a recycling center or simply has the time. There are many reason for these types of forums...to learn, to communicate with others that share the same hobby, and to hope you come across someone else that is the exact same shoes you are in but already gained the knowledge and experience that you have yet to achieve and maybe they will share that knowledge and experience with us so we don't make the same mistakes they had to go through.
If I ask about Miracle Gro....that means I want to know about Miracle gro...not about soil from Japan or Alaska, or be told Miracle Gro is an inferior product, etc, etc, etc...
The San Joaquin Valley in California has some of the most fertile/richest soil in the world...why don't we all just go get our soil from there?
And your point is?
Seriously....the soil I buy from MG is like a drop of water in the ocean compared to what the zillions of factories around the world do to destroy the enviroment.
Does this mean you ride a peddle bike or a horse?
Actually it's called gathering information to defend my side of the debate. Just takes a good memory and 5 seconds to cut and paste.
Sometimes you need things to back up an argument, isn't that what they do for you in court Armac....gather facts for your side of the argument....and I do believe the "facts" in a court room are a lot older than a month and have been stored in books for ages.....not merely a month.
Yes let's get back to soil. To answer the question as simple as possible "Is MG worth it?" my answer is no. If you would like safe alternatives and ideas, visit my glog and either you will find your answer within or I will answer it to the best of my knowledge. Pepper Guru has some invaluable information as well.
Sometimes you need things to back up an argument, isn't that what they do for you in court Armac....gather facts for your side of the argument....and I do believe the "facts" in a court room are a lot older than a month and have been stored in books for ages.....not merely a month.
Yes let's get back to soil. To answer the question as simple as possible "Is MG worth it?" my answer is no. If you would like safe alternatives and ideas, visit my glog and either you will find your answer within or I will answer it to the best of my knowledge. Pepper Guru has some invaluable information as well.
Pepper-Guru
eXtreme
Its all about what you're comfortable with.