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organic Organic Gardening...No Till...Forum?

Gary, do you anticipate your "mounds" ever becoming depleted of nutrients? If so, how will you address it? I ask this because I think you said you never fertilize. Pretty amazing growth you get!
 
windchicken said:
The first thing you said—I cut the main stem right above ground level, and leave the root system in the ground...
 
If I have the space the next season I will plant in between the old stumps, so the old roots can finish returning to the soil...I extended the pilot bed this year for that very purpose...
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I guess an added benefit of leaving the roots in is leaving the most crucial root microbes behind with them, ready to greet the next plant.
 
Btw, very very nice work imho, thank you for posting the pics and info. That's some of the finest amended dirt i've ever seen. It's encouraging me to step up the soil science another notch.
 
Roguejim said:
Gary, do you anticipate your "mounds" ever becoming depleted of nutrients? If so, how will you address it? I ask this because I think you said you never fertilize. Pretty amazing growth you get!
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Thanks Jim...Like Rodney said in the post below, I am constantly adding more wood chips to the surface of the beds, so I am always renewing the soil. Remember that what we're about with the RCW thing is mimicking the actions of a hardwood forest. The trees are constantly shedding branches, which fall to the forest floor and decompose there. It's interesting to note that the N2 tie-up only takes place the first year, when you do the initial tilling-in. You should never have that issue again...
 
armac said:
if he continues to add woodchips, why would it ever deplete, the soil in the forrest never depletes.
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+1 Thanks Rodney!
 
Proud Marine Dad said:
This is the kind of thing I love about growing truely organic.
Using chemical fertilizers to me is boring as I prefer to get into the soil science and how and why things act as they do. Absolutely fascinating stuff the Creator has built into nature. So complex that we have yet to even figure it all out.
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What even the Lemieux publications don't mention is that before Europeans came to this continent, all the river valleys along the Gulf Coastal Plain were populated by dense hardwood forest. There are very few of these left now—The last time I walked in one was in the 1960s, when my grandmother lived in the valley of the Ouachita River, a tributary of the Mississippi, in NE Louisiana. It was definitely a spiritual experience—The trees were very straight, and well over 100 feet tall, with the lowest branches up around 70 feet. The canopy above that was so dense that almost no sunlight filtered through, even in the middle of the day. There was no vegetation on the forest floor, only the carpet of oak leaves and branches. Very quiet and dim, with that sense of massive space above you like in a cathedral....Soon after that developers cut down those trees and built an apartment complex...
 
Imagine the entire expanse of the Mississippi Valley occupied from one side to the other with a forest like that....From the western bluffs at Monroe, Louisiana to the eastern bluffs at Vicksburg, Mississippi it's well over 100 miles...When the cotton planters came here in the 1820s and cut down hundreds upon hundreds of square miles of virgin oak forest they exploited some of the richest soil on the planet...Leaving aside the issues of slavery and the other mindless practices of that society; the Southern USA, in the period before the Civil War, supplied 25% of the world's cotton—a staggeringly massive amount of production, especially in the pre-industrial age...
 
All that is to say that virgin river valleys aren't fertile only because of the great sediment that the rivers have deposited...Oak trees prefer that type of ground, and oak trees build the most perfect soil on the planet...
 
Pepper-Guru said:
Oooooommmmmmm
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:P Rich, that's what my pecan tree was telling me last night...I need to spend more time under that huge, ancient arboreal spirit.
 
Jetchuka said:
I guess an added benefit of leaving the roots in is leaving the most crucial root microbes behind with them, ready to greet the next plant.
 
Btw, very very nice work imho, thank you for posting the pics and info. That's some of the finest amended dirt i've ever seen. It's encouraging me to step up the soil science another notch.
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Thanks Jetchuka! I had not thought of that... :P  Thanks for checking this out, and thanks for the kudos!
 
I saw one form of your growing Gary, believe it was a German version, they buried an entire fallen tree. As it decomposed the mound became more and more nutrient rich. I believe they called it mound cultivation.
 
I wonder how no till would work here in FL with all the invasive grasses and trees, sandy soil and year round growing season?  Just try to stop Torpedo Grass(without digging), its main runners are 6-12 inches underground then they shoot up right next to my plants. Then there's the trees, shallow roots running to hundreds of feet finding my rich homemade soil even in the pots on the ground. Then the insects we have every type of leaf cruncher, stem borer, root chomping sap sucking bug you can imagine and they never go away!!!!
 
Well, the trench borders they use for natural bamboo fence forests go fairly deep. Im sure with a little hard work and a weekend's time you could figure something out to keep that crab grass out of the beds! Also, tilling or not really wont have an effect on the amount of pests that are present. If anything tilling makes it easier for them. Less competition and predators I would imagine. 
 
I'm attempting it in my purple nutsedge infested garden, so I'll let you know next year. I keep pulling up the weeds, but there aren't as many as there used to be. Nutsedge is the only one I keep having issues with popping up everywhere.
 
StupidJerk said:
I'm attempting it in my purple nutsedge infested garden, so I'll let you know next year. I keep pulling up the weeds, but there aren't as many as there used to be. Nutsedge is the only one I keep having issues with popping up everywhere.
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I've been told when you pull up a nutsedge weed, it leaves seeds behind at the root level.  Sulfentrazone is the killer of choice.  To my knowledge, it's a one trick pony.  I squirt it directly on the individual weed.  No other remedy that I know of.
 
Roguejim said:
I've been told when you pull up a nutsedge weed, it leaves seeds behind at the root level.  Sulfentrazone is the killer of choice.  To my knowledge, it's a one trick pony.  I squirt it directly on the individual weed.  No other remedy that I know of.
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It's not an easy one for sure, an it sends a network of tubers out in every direction. You can eventually kill it by continuously pulling the grass out when it reaches the surface, but it take a long time. Yellow isn't so bad because it only puts out one "nut", but the purple creates networks of nuts below the surface. It's everywhere the neighboring gardens, so I know I won't ever completely get rid of it, but I've been able to slow it down a lot over the last 6 months. When I first got my plot it was a field of nutsedge. I haven't tried any herbicides yet, and I don't think I'm going to. I want to see if I can control it naturally.
 
armac said:
I saw one form of your growing Gary, believe it was a German version, they buried an entire fallen tree. As it decomposed the mound became more and more nutrient rich. I believe they called it mound cultivation.
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Cool Rodney! I really dig that idea...
 
Pepper-Guru said:
permaculture ftw, jeez ya know...just half a decade ago i never thought id see anyone on this forum even mentioning these types of practices, if it wasn't miracle gro and pro mix, it didnt get the time of day. now im so proud it brings a tear to my little organic eye!
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Lol, Rich! Not only is this the most natural way of building soil...I'm convinced it brings the best results...
 
Prehensile said:
I wonder how no till would work here in FL with all the invasive grasses and trees, sandy soil and year round growing season?  Just try to stop Torpedo Grass(without digging), its main runners are 6-12 inches underground then they shoot up right next to my plants. Then there's the trees, shallow roots running to hundreds of feet finding my rich homemade soil even in the pots on the ground. Then the insects we have every type of leaf cruncher, stem borer, root chomping sap sucking bug you can imagine and they never go away!!!!
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I still have to protect my established RCW beds from grass runners, especially Bermuda grass. I also get quite a bit of damage to the mulch layer from birds foraging for earthworms, and those Cuban lizards that dig tunnels into the mulch...I'm constantly pulling grass runners, nutsedge, blackberry vines, and always patching up the mulch layer...RCW beds are a wonderful thing, but they still require some work...
 
Pepper-Guru said:
Well, the trench borders they use for natural bamboo fence forests go fairly deep. Im sure with a little hard work and a weekend's time you could figure something out to keep that crab grass out of the beds! Also, tilling or not really wont have an effect on the amount of pests that are present. If anything tilling makes it easier for them. Less competition and predators I would imagine. 
Click to expand...
 
I've been digging trenches around the bases of my beds, about 6 inches deep by 18 inches wide, to prevent invasion from Bermuda grass. It doesn't really stop the grass runners; the difference is that I can see when the runners attempt to cross the trench, then I can trim them off with my shovel blade...Otherwise they "sneak in" underneath the mulch and/or soil layer...
 
StupidJerk said:
It's not an easy one for sure, an it sends a network of tubers out in every direction. You can eventually kill it by continuously pulling the grass out when it reaches the surface, but it take a long time. Yellow isn't so bad because it only puts out one "nut", but the purple creates networks of nuts below the surface. It's everywhere the neighboring gardens, so I know I won't ever completely get rid of it, but I've been able to slow it down a lot over the last 6 months. When I first got my plot it was a field of nutsedge. I haven't tried any herbicides yet, and I don't think I'm going to. I want to see if I can control it naturally.
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Now I know what that "grass" is! Nutsedge! I can pick my beds completely clean of it one day, and the next day it will be back...The picking is real therapeutic, though...so it's not that bad....
 
 
 
I've been digging trenches around the bases of my beds, about 6 inches deep by 18 inches wide, to prevent invasion from Bermuda grass. It doesn't really stop the grass runners; the difference is that I can see when the runners attempt to cross the trench, then I can trim them off with my shovel blade...Otherwise they "sneak in" underneath the mulch and/or soil layer...
Click to expand...
If you're going to build a moat. do it right. Fill that thing with diesel and light it up. Let's see the grass get across THAT!
 
Nut grass is a real beast. If you ever let one of those clumps get mature, you will practically need a backhoe to dig it out. 
 
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