Carolina Reaper (HP22B) Community Grow

Pr0digal_son · Jul 30, 2013

R014ND3R said:
First pod:

Nice,I was beginning to forget what they looked like.

TylerInNiagara · Jul 30, 2013

KiNGDeNNiZ said:
lucky for you.. i eventually got replacements after being called a liar and a fraud.. then later he made a comment "hows them free reaper seeds i sent ya" more like reaper replacements for seeds that never germed.. IMO the guy is a REAPER.. =D

I have never had an issue with getting replacement packs from pepperjoe even after the canada post mail strike.

Al-from-Chile · Jul 30, 2013

DesertChris said:
And.... I think I am very unlikely to jump on any new variety bandwagon anytime soon...lol

(SNIP)

I do find the whole "high priced seeds that you can grow but don't sell anything" to be extremely annoying and unfair...
Especially since both seem to have been enacted AFTER I purchased seeds.
Therefore I call B.S. on both Ed and Jukka, and as far as I am concerned they can both stick a superhot pepper right up their "Bhut".....

that is exactly my point ... in the few months here, I saw a recurring pattern.

A hyped up latest-and-greatest ... which seem to have germination issues (prob. from the pressure to rush to the ~~money~~ market, where eventually "almost ripe" pods get picked which lead to cr@ppy seeds and germ rates).

If those folks see that the can make tens of thousands of $ per month, they just seem that they cant wait for the pods to be slightly overripe - and you as client are stuck with 3/12 germ rates :-/

LESSON LEARNED 1: I let the latest-and-greates pass by, and the more they hype it, the less i am interested.

LL 2: On principal I refrain from buying the "hottest pepper" if this claim is not supported by independent testing (refers to both the reaper and the jigsaw).

I vote with my feet and walk away

At this point of my life I am interested in "technology that has proved itself" - I am getting older and am pretty jealous of my time - but mostly I hate to be BS'd at...

just my thoughts,
Al

TylerInNiagara said:
Well Ed has many expenses Lab testing, warehouses, greenhouses, growers, lights, water, pots, materials, staff and his family they are not unreasonably priced and I can understand him wanting to milk this for all it’s worth but as others have said I don’t think it will be enforceable if they purchased from pepperjoe or if they are outside of the USA.

counter-argument:

they also claim(ed?) it to be the worlds hottest pepper, but continuously failed to present prove of this ...

Its like Lambo, Ferrari, Renault or Yugo claiming to have the worlds fastes car, but not being able to provide proof - and keep calling it that way.

stc3248 · Jul 30, 2013

My other plant...

Looks more like it!!!

Dshlogg · Jul 30, 2013

stc3248 said:
My other plant...

Looks more like it!!!

Nice jellyfish pod. That has the blunt stinger that I would look for with this variety. You just don't see that with Primos.

TylerInNiagara · Jul 30, 2013

Al-from-Chile said:
that is exactly my point ... in the few months here, I saw a recurring pattern.

A hyped up latest-and-greatest ... which seem to have germination issues (prob. from the pressure to rush to the ~~money~~ market, where eventually "almost ripe" pods get picked which lead to cr@ppy seeds and germ rates).

If those folks see that the can make tens of thousands of $ per month, they just seem that they cant wait for the pods to be slightly overripe - and you as client are stuck with 3/12 germ rates :-/

LESSON LEARNED 1: I let the latest-and-greates pass by, and the more they hype it, the less i am interested.

LL 2: On principal I refrain from buying the "hottest pepper" if this claim is not supported by independent testing (refers to both the reaper and the jigsaw).

I vote with my feet and walk away

At this point of my life I am interested in "technology that has proved itself" - I am getting older and am pretty jealous of my time - but mostly I hate to be BS'd at...

just my thoughts,
Al

counter-argument:

they also claim(ed?) it to be the worlds hottest pepper, but continuously failed to present prove of this ...

Its like Lambo, Ferrari, Renault or Yugo claiming to have the worlds fastes car, but not being able to provide proof - and keep calling it that way.

Honestly if a pepper is over 1 million SHU and doesn't taste like crap many would grow it even if it's not the worlds hottest. I'm not sure why people are making a big deal over nothing.

muskymojo · Jul 30, 2013

TylerInNiagara said:
Honestly if a pepper is over 1 million SHU and doesn't taste like crap many would grow it even if it's not the worlds hottest. I'm not sure why people are making a big deal over nothing.

Because the reaper was marketed as the next hottest pepper in the world. Joe posted pictures of a testing facility, and promised it would be announced very soon. That was several months ago. It never happened, and the always vocal pepperjoe has been absent from this discussion since people started to call BS.

BTW, Pepperjoe,
I see you are logged in and reading this topic as I type this. It really looks bad IMHO that you have nothing to say. How about some answers?

Devv · Jul 30, 2013

I can say this, the Reaper is really hot! And the taste is good IMHO. Definitely not a crap tasting pod. I planted six seeds, lost one to dampening, my fault there. 4 out of 5 of the remaining pods have the advertised classic Reaper look. Germ rates were 100% ranging from 8 to 14 days maybe a few days longer (I would have to check my records to be exact). No heat pads used, just stuck them in water overnight and in potting soil the next day in a sunny window facing south.

All the plants exhibited vigorous growth, and continue to do so....I did post pics here in the past and will again later this week.

I am a little disappointed in some of the variation I've seen but WTH, it's just a pepper. The one that was not true turned out to be a fantastic tasting pepper, actually liked it better than the "true" one.

Let's grow people, and post some pics!

SomeLikeItHot · Jul 30, 2013

http://trademarks.justia.com/859/30/smokin-ed-s-carolina-reaper-85930781.html

He's going for the straight up name Carolina Reaper as well.

Anyway, I'll toss in my 2 cents, even if the copper they're pressed on is worth more they are.

Ed has put years (probably over a decade) into peppers. Most of us are hobby growers, this literally is his family's bread and butter living situation. We're talking 14 different fields (if my understanding is correct), who knows how many facilities, paying for staff, legal team, testing, research, etc. This isn't a fly-by-night back-yard grow shop, the over-head in his situation has to be MASSIVE for all of that, especially if the order counts have reached so high that he found himself having to out-source to other key growers because he couldn't handle it all. On top of that he donates literally tens of thousands of pods to cancer research (which was documented on CNN)... That means he is giving away more pods than most of us grow over the course of a decade, and has been doing that per year.

I really can't blame him for doing everything he can to protect his product. If he didn't, you'd have people selling the seeds for 2-3 bucks, basically cutting him out of the equation, making all his work nullified until he releases his next big pepper. I can pretty much guarantee you that he hasn't yet made back what he spent on the product in the first place just yet.

Do I like how it is all being handled? No. I certainly do not. Do I understand from a business point of view? Yes, I most certainly do. Like it or not, you have to at least have an understanding for the reasoning behind it. This is more than just a hobby to him, it's his family's livelihood.

PepperRich · Jul 30, 2013

SomeLikeItHot said:
Ed has put years (probably over a decade) into peppers. Most of us are hobby growers, this literally is his family's bread and butter living situation. We're talking 14 different fields (if my understanding is correct), who knows how many facilities, paying for staff, legal team, testing, research, etc. This isn't a fly-by-night back-yard grow shop, the over-head in his situation has to be MASSIVE for all of that, especially if the order counts have reached so high that he found himself having to out-source to other key growers because he couldn't handle it all. On top of that he donates literally tens of thousands of pods to cancer research (which was documented on CNN)... That means he is giving away more pods than most of us grow over the course of a decade, and has been doing that per year.

I really can't blame him for doing everything he can to protect his product. If he didn't, you'd have people selling the seeds for 2-3 bucks, basically cutting him out of the equation, making all his work nullified until he releases his next big pepper. I can pretty much guarantee you that he hasn't yet made back what he spent on the product in the first place just yet.

Do I like how it is all being handled? No. I certainly do not. Do I understand from a business point of view? Yes, I most certainly do. Like it or not, you have to at least have an understanding for the reasoning behind it. This is more than just a hobby to him, it's his family's livelihood.

Ed Currie is not the victim here. It's his business model, his vision. The real victims are the innocent people that purchased Smokin' Ed's Carolina Reaper® seeds without any knowledge of the possible consequences.

SomeLikeItHot · Jul 30, 2013

PepperRich said:
Ed Currie is not the victim here. It's his business model, his vision. The real victims are all of the innocent people that purchased Smokin' Ed's Carolina Reaper® seeds without any knowledge of the possible consequences.

If they purchased them BEFORE that change was made to say you cannot sell them, then legally they aren't bound by that agreement. They just can't use his legal names. All you need is proof of when you purchased them. A judge would throw that out once the receipt date shows it was purchased before said changes were made, it wouldn't even make it to court.

The community went through the same thing with the Red Savina, as well as the white bullet if I remember correctly.

Regardless, I definitely do NOT like how it's all being handled. I understand the reasoning behind it, but if this was the intention behind it then perhaps he should've made that VERY clear during all the press announcements. Really though, considering how many big investors are involved in this, kind of wonder how much of it actually IS his doing--considering he literally won't speak on any of it, and instead refers you on who to talk to.

PepperRich · Jul 30, 2013

The Red Savina is a completely different matter. The Red Savina had Federal Plant Variety Protection.

http://apps.ams.usda.gov/CMS//AdobeImages/009200255.pdf

The Smokin' Ed's Carolina Reaper® does not.

SomeLikeItHot said:
If they purchased them BEFORE that change was made to say you cannot sell them, then legally they aren't bound by that agreement. They just can't use his legal names. All you need is proof of when you purchased them. A judge would throw that out once the receipt date shows it was purchased before said changes were made, it wouldn't even make it to court.

"If they purchased them BEFORE that change was made"

What change?

SomeLikeItHot · Jul 30, 2013

PepperRich said:
The Red Savina is a completely different matter. The Red Savina had Federal Plant Variety Protection.

http://apps.ams.usda.gov/CMS//AdobeImages/009200255.pdf

The Smokin' Ed's Carolina Reaper® does not.

"If they purchased them BEFORE that change was made"

What change?

The change to his website that states that they can't be used for commercial reasons. Without that, he wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

PepperRich · Jul 30, 2013

SomeLikeItHot said:
The change to his website that states that they can't be used for commercial reasons. Without that, he wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

I doubt that's legally binding. An agreement has to be acknowledged by both parties to be binding.

What if you purchased your seeds from Pepper Joe or acquired them as a gift?

SadisticPeppers · Jul 30, 2013

PepperRich said:
I doubt that's legally binding. An agreement has to be acknowledged by both parties to be binding.

What if you purchased your seeds from Pepper Joe or acquired them as a gift?

Where on PepperJoe's site does or has it specified that Carolina Reapers cannot be used for commercial purposes? I've been legitimately looking, but can't find it anywhere. Last thing I wanna do is get him in trouble, but I also want to make sure I get my facts right

SomeLikeItHot · Jul 30, 2013

PepperRich said:
I doubt that's legally binding. An agreement has to be acknowledged by both parties to be binding.

What if you purchased your seeds from Pepper Joe or acquired them as a gift?

I doubt it's legally binding either, as long as you don't use the trademarked names you should be fine. Always better safe than sorry though!

http://puckerbuttpeppercompany.com/terms-and-conditions/

It being listed there though, you are technically agreeing to that term upon purchase through them. From any other site? Who knows. I do know that he IS apparently going for a PVP on the reaper though.

elcap1999 said:
Where on PepperJoe's site does or has it specified that Carolina Reapers cannot be used for commercial purposes? I've been legitimately looking, but can't find it anywhere. Last thing I wanna do is get him in trouble, but I also want to make sure I get my facts right

See above.

PepperRich · Jul 31, 2013

SomeLikeItHot said:
I do know that he IS apparently going for a PVP on the reaper though.

I was wondering where you got your information. I can't seem to find a pending application for them.

http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/pvp4.pl?Pepper%20201200010%20201300374

"A variety may be considered new only if propagating or harvested material of the variety has not been sold or otherwise disposed of to other persons for purposes of exploitation of the variety for more than 1 year in the U.S. or 4 years outside of the U.S."

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams.fetchTemplateData.do?template=TemplateM&navID=PVPOApplicationRequirements&page=PVPOApplicationRequirements&description=PVPO-Application%20Requirements

SadisticPeppers · Jul 31, 2013

SomeLikeItHot said:
I doubt it's legally binding either, as long as you don't use the trademarked names you should be fine. Always better safe than sorry though!

http://puckerbuttpeppercompany.com/terms-and-conditions/

It being listed there though, you are technically agreeing to that term upon purchase through them. From any other site? Who knows. I do know that he IS apparently going for a PVP on the reaper though.

See above.

That's actually Ed Currie's website, and not Pepper Joe's.

I think that's the point several of us have been trying to make. If two websites sell the exact same product, and we buy them from one, how would we be beholden to the other site's terms & conditions, especially if there were never a link to the other site's terms & conditions for that product on the site we purchased them from?

JDFan · Jul 31, 2013

elcap1999 said:
That's actually Ed Currie's website, and not Pepper Joe's.

I think that's the point several of us have been trying to make. If two websites sell the exact same product, and we buy them from one, how would we be beholden to the other site's terms & conditions, especially if there were never a link to the other site's terms & conditions for that product on the site we purchased them from?

And that is where the legal battle would be focused -- Since according to Ed's Terms and conditions it states the condition applies to all sales including its affiliates but those conditions were not in place when sales of the seeds started and also we do not know if Ed had any signed agreement with Pepperjoe requiring him to also follow those terms and post them on his site -- If there is no such agreement between ED's company and his authorized distribution channel then there is no way those terms could be enforced since there is no way they could expect people to agree to terms that did not exist when the purchase was made. If there is in fact an agreement signed between PBPC and PJ to adhere to those terms then PBPC would be able to sue PJ for loss of sales and\or damages caused by not following the agreement but even then I doubt PBPC would be able to enforce the terms on individuals that had purchased seeds without agreeing to or even knowing those terms existed. (Figure this may well be why the legal depts of both PBPC and PJ have advised them not to discuss the situation so that there is no further evidence put forth that could later be used against them if a suit does arise between the 2 companies)

So the release of the seeds to the public in a rush will probably come back to bite them as now that the seeds are available through other channels that were made without having to agree to those Terms and Conditions there is no real way to begin enforcing those conditions on everyone because there is no way to prove whether the seeds came from a place that made the consumer aware of this type of restriction existing or not. (would be easier to enforce if the policy was consistent and easily available ( or had to be agreed to by at least being displayed and agreed to in order to complete the sales transaction) at all sources and were in place prior to any public release ) but even then without the proper Plant Variety Protection and Registration to protect the plants it would probably be an uphill battle to try to get this type of restriction enforced.

TylerInNiagara · Aug 1, 2013

SomeLikeItHot said:
http://trademarks.justia.com/859/30/smokin-ed-s-carolina-reaper-85930781.html

He's going for the straight up name Carolina Reaper as well.

Anyway, I'll toss in my 2 cents, even if the copper they're pressed on is worth more they are.

Ed has put years (probably over a decade) into peppers. Most of us are hobby growers, this literally is his family's bread and butter living situation. We're talking 14 different fields (if my understanding is correct), who knows how many facilities, paying for staff, legal team, testing, research, etc. This isn't a fly-by-night back-yard grow shop, the over-head in his situation has to be MASSIVE for all of that, especially if the order counts have reached so high that he found himself having to out-source to other key growers because he couldn't handle it all. On top of that he donates literally tens of thousands of pods to cancer research (which was documented on CNN)... That means he is giving away more pods than most of us grow over the course of a decade, and has been doing that per year.

I really can't blame him for doing everything he can to protect his product. If he didn't, you'd have people selling the seeds for 2-3 bucks, basically cutting him out of the equation, making all his work nullified until he releases his next big pepper. I can pretty much guarantee you that he hasn't yet made back what he spent on the product in the first place just yet.

Do I like how it is all being handled? No. I certainly do not. Do I understand from a business point of view? Yes, I most certainly do. Like it or not, you have to at least have an understanding for the reasoning behind it. This is more than just a hobby to him, it's his family's livelihood.

I Agree 100% I just wanted to say that he may have hotter variants of the HP22B and one called "death strain".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmN-IpLVsZo